The answer of hell and its origins

[face2face]

If jaywalking and grand theft auto don't carry the same penalty in our court system.

Would they carry the same penalty in God's?

There is a verse in the bible that says: "don't fear man who can kill the body, fear God who can destroy the soul".

Its hard to put into context as we do not know how long of a list of sins the rich man who conversed with Abraham from hell had to his name.

But even though Lazarus was poor and suffered in life, its probably safe to say he was a sinner and imperfect. He did not wind up in hell simply due to having sins in his past. So it could be inaccurate to say the wages of sin are death, in a literal sense.

It's clear you do not understand the meaning of that parable. It's impossible to converse with you on this subject if you are misrepresenting Scripture. Romans 6:23 is the divine decree - non negotiable.

 

[RLT63]

I would love to meet her and talk with her for a long time.

You can search for members with the search feature

 

[RLT63]

They trist it to say hell is eternal destruction.

I think you are right and they believe in annihilation of non JWs

 

[Space_Karen]

It's clear you do not understand the meaning of that parable. It's impossible to converse with you on this subject if you are misrepresenting Scripture. Romans 6:23 is the divine decree - non negotiable.

As christians I believe our goal is to seek the truth that is God.

Raise each other up, and not to put each other down.

 

[Jack]

I would love to meet her and talk with her for a long time.

Do you really want to debate with demons? Many good people have fallen to Satan's smooth deceptions.

1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

Satan's messengers tell us that Jesus isn't God and Hell isn't eternal. God warned us, DON'T GIVE HEED to Satan's messengers or you risk joining Satan. Proceed at your own RISK!

Revelation 12
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no eternal Hell fire!

 

[face2face]

As christians I believe our goal is to seek the truth that is God.

Raise each other up, and not to put each other down.

True, but this does not change the fact that you used a parable to suggest something as being literal. Have you studied Luke 16:19-31 carefully?

 

[Jack]

Luke 16 is not a parable. There is ZERO proof! And so it is LITERAL!

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Just like the rich man who died and is quite alive in the fire.

 

[face2face]

So why did these parables arise Luke 15:1-2?

 

[Jack]

So why did these parables arise Luke 15:1-2?

Parables don't use LITERAL Biblical people. Luke 16 is literal whether Kingdom Hall likes it or not.

 

[face2face]

Parables don't use LITERAL Biblical people. Luke 16 is literal whether Kingdom Hall likes it or not.

Luke 15:28 Churlish eldest son refuses to feast with repentant brother
Luke 16:1 Unjust steward wastes his Lord’s goods
Luke 16:4-7 Unfaithfully writes down debts owed to his Lord
Luke 16:14 Parable applied to Pharisees as “lovers of money”
Luke 16:19 Parable of rich man and Lazarus, consequences of their actions!

All Parables, sorry Jack - as the saying goes "suck it up princess"

 

[Jack]

Luke 15:28 Churlish eldest son refuses to feast with repentant brother

No Biblical names?

Luke 16:1 Unjust steward wastes his Lord’s good

No Biblical names?

Luke 16:4-7 Unfaithfully writes down debts owed to his Lord

No Biblical names?

Luke 16:14 Parable applied to Pharisees as “lovers of money”

No Biblical names?

Luke 16:19 Parable of rich man and Lazarus, consequences of their actions

Ah yes, now we have Biblical people, Abraham, Moses and Lazarus. Not a parable.

All Parables, sorry Jack - as the saying goes "suck it up princess"

Kingdom Hall / hallway to Hell fire, lied to you.

Luke 16 The rich man died and was very much alive and tormented in the flames. Just like Satan's children will be who deny the everlasting fire that Jesus warned us about.

Jesus talking to humans who will receive the same fate as Satan:
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[PinSeeker]

That Jesus invoked the names of real people in His parable in Luke 16 does not make it not a parable.

ABRAHAM: Jesus invokes Abraham because all non-Messianic Jews believe Abraham is their father and theirs only, and are still waiting for the true Messiah. They believe that for now, because the Messiah has not yet come, their salvation is in him.

LAZARUS: The Lazarus of Luke 16 is a fictional character, and not the Lazarus whom we know as the brother of Mary and Martha and whom Jesus raised from the dead in John 11. The name Lazarus is from the Hebrew Eleazar and means "God has helped," and we should understand it only in that light, that God does not help ~ save ~ everyone, and that we should strive to be like this Lazarus and be among those whom God has helped and live in that light... well, Light... and not otherwise, like the rich man of the parable, who also presumably had a name.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Jack]

That Jesus invoked the names of real people in His parable in Luke 16 does not make it not a parable.

ABRAHAM: Jesus invokes Abraham because all non-Messianic Jews believe Abraham is their father and theirs only, and are still waiting for the true Messiah. They believe that for now, because the Messiah has not yet come, their salvation is in him.

LAZARUS: The Lazarus of Luke 16 is a fictional character, and not the Lazarus whom we know as the brother of Mary and Martha and whom Jesus raised from the dead in John 11. The name Lazarus is from the Hebrew Eleazar and means "God has helped," and we should understand it only in that light, that God does not help ~ save ~ everyone, and that we should strive to be like this Lazarus and be among those whom God has helped and live in that light... well, Light... and not otherwise, like the rich man of the parable, who also presumably had a name.

Grace and peace to all.

But you didn't name a parable with literal people. Keep trying Kingdom Hall messengers / victims! Is there any thing in our Bible that Kingdom Hall doesn't twist the Hell out of? Hell fire will be filled with people who don't believe in the everlasting fire.

 

[PinSeeker]

But you didn't name a parable with literal people.

Not necessary. Even if this parable is the only one that names an actual person (Abraham), that does not make it something other than what it is, a parable.

Keep trying Kingdom Hall messengers / victims! Is there any thing in our Bible that Kingdom Hall doesn't twist the Hell out of?

I... don't really care about Kingdom Hall messengers. Except to say that I hope they don't remain such, maybe...

Hell fire will be filled with people who don't believe in the everlasting fire.

Well, everlasting damnation, right? God is the "consuming fire," so permanently under His final judgment, rendered by Jesus shortly after His return, and certainly not annihilation. Right? And they'll actually believe in it then, when they actually enter into it

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Learner]

Do you really want to debate with demons? Many good people have fallen to Satan's smooth deceptions.

1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

Satan's messengers tell us that Jesus isn't God and Hell isn't eternal. God warned us, DON'T GIVE HEED to Satan's messengers or you risk joining Satan. Proceed at your own RISK!

Revelation 12
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no eternal Hell fire!

I was speaking of the Lady who witnesses to JW's for hours.

 

[The Learner]

True, but this does not change the fact that you used a parable to suggest something as being literal. Have you studied Luke 16:19-31 carefully?

Yes, in Hebrew, Yiddish, Greek, Latin, Charokee and various good English translations like Wuest. And, Luke 16 text is not a parable. When Jesus gives a parable it plainly says it is one.

 

[The Learner]

So why did these parables arise Luke 15:1-2?

Luke 15:3
King James Version
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

Chapter 15 clearly says he is giving a parable. Luke 16 does not say it is a parable.

 

[The Learner]

Luke 15:28 Churlish eldest son refuses to feast with repentant brother
Luke 16:1 Unjust steward wastes his Lord’s goods
Luke 16:4-7 Unfaithfully writes down debts owed to his Lord
Luke 16:14 Parable applied to Pharisees as “lovers of money”
Luke 16:19 Parable of rich man and Lazarus, consequences of their actions!

All Parables, sorry Jack - as the saying goes "suck it up princess"

LOL

 

[face2face]

Luke 15:3
King James Version
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

Chapter 15 clearly says he is giving a parable. Luke 16 does not say it is a parable.

Making your text large bold and green doesn't change the fact that Luke 16 is not a parable.

So just to be clear you believe Jesus must state its a parable on every occasion before it can be deemed a parable?
Also, do you believe Lazarus was literally covered with sores and the dogs licked them?

 

[face2face]

If you all are willing to honestly look at Luke 16 I am happy to explore it's nuances but there is little point if you think those things Jesus spoke of are literal...it would be a waste of time. If you want to understand how Jesus used the false beliefs of the Pharisees against them I am all to willing to accommodate.

There is a deeper narrative going on in Luke 15 & 16 which needs our attention.

F2F