The Baptism With The Holy Spirit (A Scriptural Study)

[tomwebster]

Yes -- I know you are disturbed by Bible Truth. I can't help you any with your inability to see Truth. I can only continue to show you, and the other viewers, how foolish you are with your unbiblical nonsense. Obviously, my comment, "for the deeper student", was not intended for you. You need to stick to the beginning student studies.



You are quite ignorant -- it is not reincarnation. Where do you think our spiritual bodies come from??



That is the typical comment from a loser. You mistake being correct for arrogance. People, like you, are happy when everyone is equally biblically illiterate as you. That way, no one can say you are wrong and expect you to acknowledge it. Of course, a person, like you, who cannot acknowledge error when it is plainly placed before them, is a heretic and a fool [God's description-- not mine].

When a person cannot debate the message on substance, then attack the messenger. You must be a liberal, who voted for Obama.

Watchman_2, I agree with your assessment 100%. Unfortunately their are many more "teachers" like him on this "Christian" forum.

 

[242006]

Yes, The Holy Spirit is the gift but remember the gift manifests itself in 9 different ways in the Christian believer.

This is just another fabrication by the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions. There is nothing in the Bible which states that the Holy Spirit manifests itself into gifts. All such erroneous thinking [substituting 'manifestations' for 'spritual gifts'] like yours originates from 1 Cor. 12:7 -

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1Co 12:7</B>​

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But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

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The tongue-twisting and charismatic religions take the English word "of" to mean 'from' in order to support their religious [non-Christian] beliefs, when there is no linguistic or scriptural basis for doing so. In fact, the word "of" does not exist in the Bible manuscripts for this scripture. One can easily verify this fact for themselves by seeing that no Strong's Concordance number is associated with this word -

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1Co 12:7</B>​

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But[sup]G1161 theG3588 manifestationG5321 of theG3588 SpiritG4151 is givenG1325 to every manG1538 toG4314 profitG4851 withal.

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[/sup]There is a Greek word that, when translated to English, is rendered as 'of' in the KJV. Here is an example in Paul's writings -

Rom 1:3​

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Concerning[sup]G4012 hisG848 SonG5207 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 ourG2257 Lord,G2962 whichG3588 was madeG1096 offG1537 the seedG4690 of DavidG1138 accordingG2596 to the flesh;G4561

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[/sup]It is the word G1537, which means 'of' or 'from'. Since Paul used such word rendered as 'of' in his book to the Romans, it is fact that such word was in Paul's lexicon/vocabulary. Since Paul did not use this same word in 1 Cor. 12:7, one can also conclude that Paul is not saying that there are manifestations 'from' the Holy Spirit.. The only correct interpretation is that [again] the Holy Spirit IS the manifestation spoken of in this scripture.

Another way of saying it is that the Christian can manifest up to 9 different talents which are given by The Holy Spirit which is a gift from God.

See above -- it is another erroneous and unbiblical way of substituting 'manifestations' for 'spirtual gifts'. There is nothing in the Bible manuscripts supporting your position.

For some reason you are appearing to want cause division on the exact use of these words. It is like splitting hairs for no reason but to argue.

Truth is Truth! And, yes, it is meant to divide the churches and people -

Rev 2:12​

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And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

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Luk 21:23​

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But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

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It is no coincidence that the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions also believe in Satan's Doctrine, 'Rapture'. They are the ones giving suck [to Satan's plans], as described here in Luke. It is the Word of Truth that acts as the edge of the sword, dividing fake christians [like you] from true Christians.

One either believes in the Word of God or not. If one believes in the Word of God, one would not be in the tongue-twisting or charismatic religions. All of these religions are not Christian -- but are of Satan.

So what spirit is it that causes you to want to argue and cause division Mr Watchman_2 ???

I am doing the Lord's work. See Isa. 28:10-13. On Judgment Day, if you do not divest yourself from your tongue-twisting and rapture beliefs, you cannot say that you were never exposed to and/or taught the Truth. Hence, it is God's way to separate the wheat from the chaff [Luke 3:17]. Satan can be assured of having company in the Lake of Fire.

So, the Holy Spirit is the spirit that guides me. But, Truth is not divisive at all for those who love the Lord ahead of their respective false tradition-of-man religions. It is the Truth that sets one free -- not one's church.

 

[242006]

Watchman_2, I agree with your assessment 100%. Unfortunately their are many more "teachers" like him on this "Christian" forum.

Well, they all [preachers and teachers] deserve to have the Truth taught to them, irrespective of whether they decide to accept it or not.

 

[Foreigner]

That applies to you, as well, Watchman.

 

[242006]

That applies to you, as well, Watchman.

Where's your gratitude for my proving that the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions are not Bible-based??

 

[John Zain]

Where's your gratitude for my proving that the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions are not Bible-based??

"the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions" are the ones evangelising the world
with signs and wonders following. Miracles of all kinds have been leading millions to Jesus
... and you're saying that it's all of the Devil, right?
RIGHT? Don't be shy.
This reminds us of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, doesn't it?

 

[tomwebster]

...This reminds us of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't!

 

[John Zain]

No, it doesn't!

Thomas,

What's the problem?
This is generally referring to attributing the Holy Spirit's power to Satan:

"... the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven men.
... whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him ..." (Matthew 12:31-32)

 

[tomwebster]

Thomas,

What's the problem?
This is generally referring to attributing the Holy Spirit's power to Satan:

"... the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven men.
... whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him ..." (Matthew 12:31-32)

The problem is you do not know how to rightly divide the Word.

 

[242006]

"the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions" are the ones evangelising the world
with signs and wonders following. Miracles of all kinds have been leading millions to Jesus
... and you're saying that it's all of the Devil, right?
RIGHT? Don't be shy.
This reminds us of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, doesn't it?

Leading people to God and salvation through Christ Jesus is a great work. However, going beyond evangelizing and into teaching tongue-twisting and Rapture, which will then lead them to worship Satan, is a very evil work!

What does the Bible speak of such efforts to convert Christians into tongue twisters and Rapturists?? Does the good work of evangelizing by the tongue twisters negate the betrayal of Christ that comes thereafter??

Mat 26:24​

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The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

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Betraying Christ, which the tongue-twisting Rapturists do, is shown here to override any good work a peson could have done. It is better that the tongue-twister was never born than to proselytize a non-christian into Christianity, and, thereafter, betray Christ by teaching Rapture.

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Isa 5:20</B>​

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Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.



Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

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Certainly, God has a 'Woe' or two in store for those who proselytize Christians into the Rapture religion. When one reads Isa. 28, it becomes clear that such people are taken [v. 13] by Satan.

See Luke 12:10-12 for 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit'. It cannot possibly be done at this time. It will only be God's elect, and not Rapturists, that will have the opportunity to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

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[John Zain]

Watchman_too,

I'm sure that you teach some erroneous doctrine_too.
I'm sure that your church teaches some erroneous doctrine_too.
No one's perfect, and no one has their doctrine perfect_too.

Too-da-loo_too

 

[242006]

Watchman_too,

I'm sure that you teach some erroneous doctrine_too.
I'm sure that your church teaches some erroneous doctrine_too.
No one's perfect, and no one has their doctrine perfect_too.

Too-da-loo_too

You are the typical religious ingrate. When shown your hack religion to be unbiblical, you, instead of thanking one for the edification, employ a form of denial by a claim that no one is perfect.

Well, I certainly do not claim to be perfect in all of my doctrine. But, in the case of knowing that the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions are not biblical, my doctrine is perfect.

The fact remains is that you give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils [1 Tim. 4:1].

 

[Foreigner]

Where's your gratitude for my proving that the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions are not Bible-based??

-- Perhaps if you actually had, but...

 

[242006]

-- Perhaps if you actually had, but...

Well, I met the burden of proof -- there is no such thing as 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts. If a concept does not exist in the Bible, a true 'Christian' church cannot hold it as a core belief.

It is fact that a central tenet of the tongue-twisting and charismatic religions is 'spiritual gifts'. All one has to do in order to verfiy this fact is examine the Statement of Faith ("SOF") of any major Pentecostal denomination. Here is a direct quote from the Assembly of God SOF -

We believe in the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of Christ in the Church today.

Here's the link if you doubt me any -

http://www.aog.org.u...f-faith/content

Accordingly, Pentecostalism is not a Christian denomination.

 

[John Zain]

there is no such thing as 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts.
If a concept does not exist in the Bible, a true 'Christian' church cannot hold it as a core belief.

So, what are the 9 gifts outlined in 1 Cor 12, if they are not "spiritual" gifts?
What kind of gifts are they?

 

[242006]

So, what are the 9 gifts outlined in 1 Cor 12, if they are not "spiritual" gifts?
What kind of gifts are they?

I already demonstrated that the gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12:8-10 are merely the skills each of us possess and that they are given by God at birth -- irrespective of whether one is a Christian or not. See Rom. 11:29.

The manifestation spoken of in 1 Cor. 12:7 is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit takes the skills a Christian possesses already and uses it for the benefit of the many-membered body of Christ.

There is no such thing as tongues being the evidence upon becoming a true believer.

 

[John Zain]

Watchman-2 says:
the gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12:8-10 are merely the skills each of us possess and they are given by God at birth
there is no such thing as tongues being the evidence upon becoming a true believer
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1 Corinthians 12

Spiritual Gifts: Unity in Diversity
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[sup][/sup]1[/sup] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: [sup]
[sup][/sup]2[/sup] You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. [sup]
[sup][/sup]3[/sup] Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed,
and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
[sup]4[/sup] There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [sup]
[sup][/sup]5[/sup] There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
[sup]6[/sup] And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. [sup]
[sup][/sup]7[/sup] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
[sup]8[/sup] for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
[sup]9[/sup] to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[sup][/sup] Spirit, [sup]
[sup][/sup]10[/sup] to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. [sup]
[sup][/sup]11 [/sup]But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Referring to 12:1,
"Spiritual gifts here may refer to spiritual things or spiritual persons." (Nelson's NKJV Study Bible)

In 1 Cor. chapters 12, 13, 14 ... "gifts" is usually in italics, meaning the word was added.

So, the 9 "gifts" in purple are NOT really gifts, but manifestations of the Spirit.

Your first quote in red ... complete and total rubbish.

Your second quote in red ... true statement.
Tongues are the confirmation of receiving the H.S. baptism (not salvation).

 

[Foreigner]

"Well, I met the burden of proof -- there is no such thing as 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts." - Watchman


-- Watchman, read the post just before this one. Then open your eyes.

 

[religusnut]

The born-again experience that you are talking about
is not the same experience as the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which basically just gives the believer more of everything spiritual.

I'm new to this forum as well so please be patient with me.
I do want to make one quick point here on this.
When a person is saved they receive the Holy Spirit. in fact they can't be saved unless the Spirt is drawing them. I liken it to a well of water which will supply them..... However when they are filled with the Spirit it is like a river that flows from them which is much different. Much more powerful much more wonderful..... Same spirt.

 

[religusnut]

I'm new to this forum as well so please be patient with me.
I do want to make one quick point here on this.
When a person is saved they receive the Holy Spirit. in fact they can't be saved unless the Spirit is drawing them. I liken it to a well of water which will supply them..... However when they are filled with the Spirit it is like a river that flows from them which is much different. Much more powerful much more wonderful..... Same spirit.

Also most people that are not spirit filled automatically hear the word tongues and immediately go to 1 Cor 12 and the 9 gifts mentioned to try to associate with the infilling of the Holy spirit. Truth is that these power gifts are also ministry gifts as explained in 1 Cor 14. Where there are tongues there is to be an interpretation.....
However when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit they receive a prayer language as evidence of that infilling. They are yielding themselves to speak mysteries in the spirit to God.