The 'blessed virgin Mary'

[robert derrick]

Martin Luther

"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact."

I thought Luther was Sola Scriptura.

Guess not.

 

[theefaith]

But Eve is not considered in the salvation process. In Adam all die
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I Cor 15:22

As for Immaculate Conception, you quote Gen 3:15

In your Bible, it says “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”
However in Protestant Bibles, it says this:
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." There is no she.

I have no problem with Isa 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." Mary was a virgin when she had Him.
But Matthew 1:25 says this "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus." He knew her not until means he knew her after that.



And this part is very perplexing
Luke 11:27-29
"27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."


So, looks like from this that Mary is on the same level as others who hear and keep the word. This is why she needs a saviour too.

mary is immaculate and never sinned
She has a savior but did not need a savior
Lk 1:47
Christ is savior in two ways
Two forgive sins committed and also to preserve us from committing sin

mary by the act of God in virtue of the merits of Her divine son was in the first moment of her conception in her mothers womb (the immaculate conception) was created free from original sin of Adam and preserved from all sin
Lk 1:37 for nothing is impossible with God

 

[Marymog]

From my background in new agism and Wicca, I think it has more to do with crediting Mother Earth with our sustainence. Gaia and all that.

Much love!

Interesting. That is new information to me and I love to learn new things.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

If that is true, shouldn't Mary's mother be immaculate? And her mother? And her mother?

Hmmmm....very good question.

Would God need to make her entire lineage Immaculate so that she would be Immaculate? Or is it possible by grace and necessity he made only her Immaculate to carry His immaculate child?

 

[Mungo]

Well, if she needed to be immaculate to carry an immaculate child, when was she made immaculate?She had to have been made immaculate at birth, and that only would've been accomplished if her mother were immaculate.

The clue is in the title Immaculate Conception.

Conception comes before birth.

 

[Mungo]

The reason I asked was because it is being said Jesus mother must be immaculate to house Him. So her mother must have been immaculate to house her. It makes sense.

No it doesn't make sense.
Mary was not God.
Jesus was God.
Spot the difference.

 

[Pearl]

Mary’s Song
And Mary said:

“My soul glorifies the Lord
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”

Luke 1:46-55

Mary was certainly very blessed through her relationship with God - he chose well for the mother of His Son. She knew it and praised Him.

 

[Philip James]

So, looks like from this that Mary is on the same level as others who hear and keep the word. This is why she needs a saviour too.

Hello Cassandra,

Indeed all who hear and keep the word of God are welcomed into the familial bond that is so keenly demonstrated in the person of Mary..

Her act of obedience undoing the disobedience of Eve

Her ' be it done to me acorrding to your will' the standard for all of us...

Her yes! To God's will that she become the mother of our Salvation (Jesus)!

Theotokos the 'God-bearer', our model disciple, as we are all called to be God-bearers, allowing Christ to be formed in us...

Peace be with you!

 

[Pearl]

There has only ever been one immaculate conception which was Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. Mary was not without sin, nor were her parents.

 

[Mungo]

Here we go again. Round and round and round!

There has only ever been one immaculate conception which was Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb.

Both Mary and Jesus were immaculately conceived.

Mary was not without sin,

Yes she was.

 

[Pearl]

Here we go again. Round and round and round!

Both Mary and Jesus were immaculately conceived.


Yes she was.

So your church teaches, but not the bible.

 

[Mungo]

So your church teaches, but not the bible.

The Bible teaches it (Immaculate Conception).
See posts #646, #655, #656

 

[Mungo]

So your church teaches, but not the bible.

The Bible Teaches it (without sin)
See posts #6 & #69. Probably more but I got bored scrolling through all the posts.

Also see the thread "Biblical Mary" and probably any thread with Mary in the title.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There has only ever been one immaculate conception which was Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. Mary was not without sin, nor were her parents.

If Mary was sinless we would not have needed Jesus, She could have died for us. Since she kept the law perfectly and fulfilled it

 

[Mungo]

If Mary was sinless we would not have needed Jesus, She could have died for us. Since she kept the law perfectly and fulfilled it

Could you explain your reasoning for that claim because I can't see it.
Jesus was God.
Mary wasn't.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Could you explain your reasoning for that claim because I can't see it.
Jesus was God.
Mary wasn't.

Jesus was sinless. WHich means he fulfilled the law. By practice He could be the innocent

If mary was sinless. Well then she did the same things Jesus did. So by practice. she could also be the innocent

Can you explain to me why Mary had t be sinless? And why her having relations with Joseph in the marriage covenant would be a sin?

Jesus had a human body. It was weak, It felt pain. It even died. All results of sin.

 

[Mungo]

Jesus was sinless. WHich means he fulfilled the law. By practice He could be the innocent

If mary was sinless. Well then she did the same things Jesus did. So by practice. she could also be the innocent

Jesus' self sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to merit redemption for the whole human race because he was God.
Mary was not God If Mary has been crucified how would that of been of sufficient merit to redeem the whole human race?

Moreover Mary needed a saviour (Lk 1:47). Jesus did not because Mary was immaculately conceived.

Can you explain to me why Mary had t be sinless? And why her having relations with Joseph in the marriage covenant would be a sin?

Jesus had a human body. It was weak, It felt pain. It even died. All results of sin.

Let's finish the previous point before diving into another one but if you question is-why did Mary have to be immaculately conceived then see post #646

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus' self sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to merit redemption for the whole human race because he was God.
Mary was not God If Mary has been crucified how would that of been of sufficient merit to redeem the whole human race?

Moreover Mary needed a saviour (Lk 1:47). Jesus did not because Mary was immaculately conceived.

Mary needed a savior because she sinned. Otherwise, she fulfilled the law. and saved herself

Let's finish the previous point before diving into another one but if you question is-why did Mary have to be immaculately conceived then see post #646

Yep. I have read it and heard it many times

It does not answer my question.

 

[Mungo]

Yep. I have read it and heard it many times

It does not answer my question.

Which question?

 

[Mungo]

Mary needed a savior because she sinned. Otherwise, she fulfilled the law. and saved herself

Mary didn't need a saviour because she personally sinned.
She needed a saviour to save her from the effects of original sin as explained in post #646