The Book of Revelation, Understood?

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marks

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If instead period histories only are applied to that revelation,
OK, I understand!

I think that the letters are to apply to the church leaders, then all who hear them in all times in this age. I think they tell us about us, about our churches, about our leaders, about the times we live in, about the ways churches change, things they go through, all of that and most likely more.

Personally I've come to think of the 7 church periods to be more egocentric, that is, we tend to see the part that's more around us. But while Laodicea describes much of the world, Philedelphia does also. And Smyrna. All of them.

Much love!
 

marks

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I'm going to try this . . .

This was about 20 years ago, I think, the notes from 40 years ago are gone, I think . . .

Comparison of the Letters to the churches:

revelation letters.jpg
 
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marks

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I was just reffering to you, as your chart that you presented. not that you made it. but post you own chart, would like to seeit sloppy and all... (smile).

PICJAG.
Done!

:)
 

101G

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I'm going to try this . . .

This was about 20 years ago, I think, the notes from 40 years ago are gone, I think . . .

Comparison of the Letters to the churches:

View attachment 8484
I like the footnote on Thyatira, "I should only want those things that jesus gives". I like that.

I'll take my time to read over them ok.

again thanks.

PICJAG
 

marks

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Yes, but that vision of John seeing the seven candlesticks in the heavenly and Jesus telling us the candlesticks are the seven Churches kept popping in my mind. The Holy Spirit obviously was not going to let that revelation fade. Then our Lord Jesus threatening to one of the seven Churches to remove their candlestick in Heaven from its place cemented that importance even more in my mind. It points to prophetic patterns for all the Churches.

If instead period histories only are applied to that revelation, it detracts from the importance of our Lord Jesus' warning about the removal of one of the candlesticks representing a Church lest they repent and make a change. If that is applied only to a certain period of history, then it tends to negate His Messages serving as blueprints all the way to the end of this world, which the heavenly candlestick pattern does point to.
The removal of the candlestick can also illustrate the husbandman of the vine pruning it's branches, both from the church, removing those branches that don't yield the fruit that comes out of love, but also in our personal loves, those things we do that aren't that same love-fruit.

Those things we do for the sake of doing them, but not as an expression of our faith in God resulting in love for Him, and love for others, anything outside of that He will remove, refining us.

I posted my study notes from a book I compiled 20 years ago, and it's like my Ephesus. I always know where that book is, because it originated out of a personal revival in my life, it was a product of love for the Word, and I never want to stray too far from the simplicity, and the memory, lest I become something different today. If I fall backwards, this is the first things I'll need to return to.

Much love!
 
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101G

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Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass
Thyatira = "odour of affliction" - Original: Θυάτειρα, my source, Thayer's Greek Definitions
- Definition: Thyatira = "odour of affliction" or “tribulation”
this meaning will come into effect clearly. the warfare of the flesh.

Another description of his Person. “the Son of God”, not Son of Man (which is referring to his spirit state, the inward man), vs Son of God, (referring to his flesh state, the outward man). Here John saw our Lord not in heave here but here on earth in the Spirit. So the Son of God is speaking to the church concerning their fleshly state in the world. Hence the affliction, or the tribulation in the “Flesh”. “eyes like unto a flame of fire”, shows his omniscient, for his eyes are every where. Zechariah 4:10 Zechariah 4:2 "And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Revelation 2:19 "I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
This is a good and bad commendation. Our Lord mention “works” twice. So it’s a “working” church, but is it in vain. This is why I held his other description until now. For the last works is more than the first. his eyes as flame of fire?, fire “purifies” hence the double mention of “works” , the good and the bad works of deception. supportive scripture, 2 Kings 22:17 "Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched”. sorry, but all those crosses around your necks, with someone on it, (works of the Hands). or those statues some pray to that cannot see or hear, (works of the hand). Just telling the truth. Idols, our … money, cars, homes, or even our children we put before God, just telling the truth. Yes, the affliction of the flesh. But this and these things must be purge. Matthew 3:12 "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire”.

The feet of Christ represent stability in the church, grounded and rooted in “GOOD” works, but when one allow the entrance of evil spirit, false prophet, and teachers, to be among the people, look out for the odour of affliction. we’ll see that odour of affliction in the next verses, which are the “works” of the Flesh (see Galatians 5:19-25) vs the "works" of the Spirit. this is why the Lord mention “works” twice. The “works” of the flesh, and the “works” of the Spirit. Read those Galatians verse carefully.

Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
First of all, the Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with “Gender”, lets but a plug in that now. The Jezebel spirit is more than one spirit but a few spirit “working” as one. The influence of a spirit is identified by it’s work. Example, the spirit of “lust”, the spirit of “covertness”, and the spirit of “Pride”. all these work as one. having, or desiring, what someone else has. Bottom line “selfish”. no concern for other except to destroy, and be destroyed. This spirit works in men as well as women, especially those in LEADESHIP, or in POWER, not all. If one look at the life and time of the woman Jezebel in the bible, one can see all of these spirtual traits at one time. Even today most people don’t even name their daughters “Jezebel”, but a lot of MEN and WOMEN act just like Jezebel, but just don’t have the name. as with the real woman named Jezebel, Pride always come before the fall, see Proverbs 16:18.
Galatians 5:19-25 shows us the “works” of the Jezebel spirit, vs the “works of the Spirit of God. Lets examine ourselves and see if we have any of the Jezebel spirit, or traits. just look in the mirror.

Revelation 2:21 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
This Jezebel spirit is hard to get rid of for we get use to doing some of things over and over without even knowing it. this is why his feet as brass that have been tested in a furnish of fire or of affliction, scripture, Hebrews 4:14 & 15 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin”. there is that Son of God reference as in the opening in this letter to this church. We must deal with our fleshly way. Our brother James said, James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed” there's couple of those Jezebel spirit, lust, entice. and all the other are in the bible. So we have a GREAT HIGH PRIEST we can go to and confess our sins and help us in our daily struggle in the flesh.

Revelation 2:22 "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Bottom line, as the Old folk use to say, you made that bed now you have to lay in it. The answer to avoid sin, just read Roman Chapter 6 .... God give us the answer as to how not to sin.

Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
WOW, now that just went off the chart, any chart. That’s final. Now talk about a warning….. now another truth about who Jesus is, listen. “I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts”. who is this?, answer, Jeremiah 11:20 "But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause”. who? … O LORD of host, that’s who, that’s JESUS. Uh o, no O a big O. Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord”. so get out of that bed of affliction and smell the coffee. Smell? Thyatira = "odour of affliction".

Revelation 2:24 "But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Two "of" pastors that was of these cities, and the other was pastors from another place in these cities. this verse just answered my in and of quest. Not saying that this is the case, but it gave me my answer. now a Commendation to the church. Those who don’t hold the Jezebel spirit, or walk after the flesh, or do none of those thing to their extent, then your burden will be lite, or none added

Revelation 2:25 "But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Keep the Faith.


Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
His “works”, the work of the Spirit.So @marks you was right about Thyatira, “I should want the thing that Jesus gives”, he gives us his Holy Spirit to do his “WORKS”, you’re on point. you get 10 points on the system

Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
The rod of Iron is our measuring stick, the Gospel. It is the word of God that tear down strong holds. 2 Corinthians 10:3 "For though we walk in the flesh, (there's Thyatir), we do not war after the flesh: 2 Corinthians 10:4 "(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 2 Corinthians 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Corinthians 10:6 "And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

One poster said that the strong man first be bound, (Matt 12:29), only the power of the God, Jesus the Holy Spirit, can cast out demons. Luke 10:19.

Revelation 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star” he is our power, our grace, everything we need while in this flesh body.

Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Follow the Spirit.

PICJAG.
 
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marks

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Revelation 2:16 "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Self explanatory, this is what the Lord Jesus is going to do upon his return, (quickly). the Fight is to make up our minds to follow the Lord Jesus, (it is the Church that is being judge FIRST), 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?". these are the judgment now and to come.
I will come to THEE quickly and will fight against THEM . . .

"Gamos" is a word meaning marriage, the prefix "per" is "wrong". We see this in another word, "Vert" is to bend, Pervert is bent wrong.

Pergamos is wrong marriage, and the sword of His mouth, the Holy Word, will separate between these. In our churches, if we don't maintain a solid Biblical theology, and allow worldliness in, we may find ourselves facing a church split, a generally painful yet sometimes needful thing.

In our own lives, if we allow the old ways to remain, if we allow compromise, we may find ourselves undergoing a time of discipline, that is, discipling, not joyful, but grievous, as the Word cuts through us.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
First of all, the Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with “Gender”, lets but a plug in that now. The Jezebel spirit is more than one spirit but a few spirit “working” as one. The influence of a spirit is identified by it’s work. Example, the spirit of “lust”, the spirit of “covertness”, and the spirit of “Pride”. all these work as one. having, or desiring, what someone else has. Bottom line “selfish”. no concern for other except to destroy, and be destroyed. This spirit works in men as well as women, especially those in LEADESHIP, or in POWER, not all. If one look at the life and time of the woman Jezebel in the bible, one can see all of these spirtual traits at one time. Even today most people don’t even name their daughters “Jezebel”, but a lot of MEN and WOMEN act just like Jezebel, but just don’t have the name. as with the real woman named Jezebel, Pride always come before the fall, see Proverbs 16:18.
Galatians 5:19-25 shows us the “works” of the Jezebel spirit, vs the “works of the Spirit of God. Lets examine ourselves and see if we have any of the Jezebel spirit, or traits. just look in the mirror.
The spirit in heaven in Macaiah's vision came to the LORD and said, "I will be a lying spirit in the mouths of his prophets . . ." Not so much that God sent a "lying spirit" as if that were a brand, rather, the spirit took that role.

Just something to think about . . .
 

marks

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Revelation 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star” he is our power, our grace, everything we need while in this flesh body.
I will give him the morning star . . . Give me Jesus!

I love what Peter wrote . . . even having seen Jesus in glory, having seen the overshadowing cloud, and God's voice that spoke, "this is My Son . . .", and Peter still says, we have a more certain word of prophecy which you do well to heed until the day dawn, and the morning star rises in your hearts . . .

Until Christ be formed within you . . .

Much love!
 
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101G

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The spirit in heaven in Macaiah's vision came to the LORD and said, "I will be a lying spirit in the mouths of his prophets . . ." Not so much that God sent a "lying spirit" as if that were a brand, rather, the spirit took that role.

Just something to think about . . .
that's right the spirit said "be a lying spirit", not that it was a lying spirit, but be one. 2 Chronicles 18:21 "And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so".

God control all.

PICJAG.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Acts 20:30 "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them". (one might want to read that verse agan).


that's right the spirit said "be a lying spirit", not that it was a lying spirit, but be one. 2 Chronicles 18:21 "And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so".

God control all.
Isaiah 19:14 The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
 

Waiting on him

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Revelation 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Ok a little confused here to eat things sacrificed to idols?

I believe I recall Brother Paul stating that this wasn’t problem, unless it would cause a brother to stumble.
 
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Willie T

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Does anyone even offer animal sacrifices in any type religion in the world?
Animal sacrifice in Santeria
Animal sacrifice is central to Santeria. The animal is sacrificed as food, rather than for any obscure mystical purpose.

Followers of an Orisha will offer them food and sacrifice animals to them in order to build and maintain a personal relationship with the spirit. The process not only brings the worshipper closer to their Orisha, but makes them more aware of the presence of the Orisha within them.

A chicken: the most common sacrifice. © Sue McDonald ©
This is a mutual process; the food is essential for the Orishas, who will die without being fed, and in return the Orishas are able to help the worshippers. Orishas are also nourished by other forms of worship and praise.

Sacrifices are performed for life events such as birth, marriage, and death. They are also used for healing.

Without sacrifice the religion would die out, as sacrifice is essential for initiation into the faith community and the 'ordination' of priests.

The animals are killed by cutting the carotid arteries with a single knife stroke in a similar way to other religious methods of slaughter.

Animals are cooked and eaten following all Santeria rituals (except healing and death rites, where the sickness is believed to pass into the dead animal). Eating the sacrificed animal is considered a sharing with the Orisha, who only consumes the animal's blood, while the worshippers eat the meat.

Sacrificial animals include chickens (the most common), pigeons, doves, ducks, guinea pigs, goats, sheep, and turtles.

The USA Supreme Court has stated (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah, 1993 - see related links) that it is constitutional for Santeria worshippers to kill animals for such a ritual sacrifice.
 
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Waiting on him

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Animal sacrifice in Santeria
Animal sacrifice is central to Santeria. The animal is sacrificed as food, rather than for any obscure mystical purpose.

Followers of an Orisha will offer them food and sacrifice animals to them in order to build and maintain a personal relationship with the spirit. The process not only brings the worshipper closer to their Orisha, but makes them more aware of the presence of the Orisha within them.

A chicken: the most common sacrifice. © Sue McDonald ©
This is a mutual process; the food is essential for the Orishas, who will die without being fed, and in return the Orishas are able to help the worshippers. Orishas are also nourished by other forms of worship and praise.

Sacrifices are performed for life events such as birth, marriage, and death. They are also used for healing.

Without sacrifice the religion would die out, as sacrifice is essential for initiation into the faith community and the 'ordination' of priests.

The animals are killed by cutting the carotid arteries with a single knife stroke in a similar way to other religious methods of slaughter.

Animals are cooked and eaten following all Santeria rituals (except healing and death rites, where the sickness is believed to pass into the dead animal). Eating the sacrificed animal is considered a sharing with the Orisha, who only consumes the animal's blood, while the worshippers eat the meat.

Sacrificial animals include chickens (the most common), pigeons, doves, ducks, guinea pigs, goats, sheep, and turtles.

The USA Supreme Court has stated (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah, 1993 - see related links) that it is constitutional for Santeria worshippers to kill animals for such a ritual sacrifice.
Seems very isolated, though when this letter was addressed in Johns time this was most likely very common
 

marksman

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I don't claim to be anything other than a born-again Spirit-filled Bible-believing follower of Christ, and here are two Scriptures that lead me to believe God is Three Persons in One..

If you are a bible believing follower of Christ do you...

Go into all the world and make disciples?

Do you meet on the Sabbath in homes?

Do you subscribe to leadership by Elders, not pastors?

Do you have the five ministries operating in your church?

Do you give as God has blessed you, not a tithe?

Do you have meals together as a fellowship, not a sip of wine and a bit of a biscuit?

Do you sit around and involve yourself in dialogue to learn the scriptures?

Have the people that lead your church lived in the community before they became Elders or was one man brought in from outside?

If you are a bible believing Christian you do all these things which are in the scriptures. If you don't do them, then you are not a bible believing Christian. You only think you are because it is a catchy phrase that makes you seem as though you are the real deal. If you don't do them, the truth is you are a denominational believing Christian.
 

marksman

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I don't claim to be anything other than a born-again Spirit-filled Bible-believing follower of Christ, and here are two Scriptures that lead me to believe God is Three Persons in One.

Joh 14:15-17

(15) If you love me, keep my commandments.
(16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.

2 Cor 13:14
(14) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.

The question is not and has not been whether God is three in one. The question is that the verses quoted do not mention the Holy Spirit. A good teacher does not add his take on things to get the outcome he wants. He deals with the facts as they are and expounds on them from there. In doing that a full and reliable understanding emerges that enables the believer to give a good account as to what they believe.

The world is very good at pulling you apart if you are arguing from shaky ground.
 

Jay Ross

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Nepal is pretty heavy into it.

Yes, from my experience, Nepal is a Hindu and Buddhist country, just like India, and Sri Lanka. Every so often in Nepal, Hindus sacrifice their children, usually out of sight in the forests.

We should not forget the Muslims kill animals at least once a year to celebrate the end for Ramadan.

In America Turkeys mostly are killed to celebrate a national day.

The list of Muslim dominated countries is quite large and there are can be a mix of Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim people in those countries in places like Indonesia and Malaysia for example.
 
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Davy

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Yes, I agree. in my experence, and what the Lord Jesus has revealed to me is that he has faithful in all churches. over the course of many years I have spoken to many who was of different denominations, friends or acquaintance of mine. and a few I was shocke as of what they told me. one friend told me, who was catholic at the time, said that she didn't believe in all of it, but here parents was catholic and she was just raised catholic, but now don't believe in most of it but still go to a catholic church, because she feels comfortable in the setting. I was surprised, but she said that she believed in the Lord Jesus and God the Father but not like most other catholic do.

but my biggest suprise was with some of my JW friends. and these range from mid 20's to 70 plus. and I was shocked when one told me, when I pressed her on blood transfusion, she had a son who was, I guess the word used is shunned, and he was sick and if need a blood transfusion, she would give him the blood transfusion. and I asked, is that not aganist your beliefs?. what she answered me almost knocked me out of my chair. quote, "she told me that she was that child mother, and if it would save his life she would do it". well that shut my mouth closed. and later I was going to press here again in another area of JW belifs, but the Lord Jesus spoke to me and said leave her alone she is one of mine. and I did just what the lord told me to do, stop my examination of her. so my my was shut closed, and we, even today are good friends, yet she still goes to the local JW hall, but she still honor me as I do her. and we talk regular.

so I know without a doubt God, the Lord Jesus have many of his's, (elect), in places where we have no clue, and where have no suspect at. we should treat everyone the same, for we don't know who we're entertaining in conversation.

Just as in the 7 churches. with all the faults, and his warning, he would not be giving these rebukes unless some of his are in these churches. hence the warning and the accommodations to do better or improve. see, we're the Judges of OUR OWNSELVES. when we examine these churches we examine ourselves.

Thanks for the post I'll be looking for you input on more of these churches. thanks.

PICJAG.

All that applies but only up to a certain point.

When it comes to the grand deception that is soon to come upon the whole world by the coming Antichrist, that warning is to be given regardless of what Church one goes to. And if one is in error against that warning our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave the Church for the end, then attempts to correction are justified.