The Book of Revelation, Understood?

[101G]

Why would I not say that?

Here it is in clearness.

Let's follow the Scripture . . .

Revelation 1:4-6 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”.

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We read what it says, and it says, there are three that send this, the One who is, and who was, and is coming; the Seven Spirits which are before His throne (am I in front of me?); and from Jesus Christ,

I post the Greek above so you can see the conjunctions,

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You State . . .

This letter is from one person, the Lord Jesus, who is the Almighty. Who holds the Title God. Here is where the other Persons who suppose to be in the Godhead is vetted by scripture or not. Lets follow the bible, not our beliefs.

In Revelation 1:1 it states who sent the Letter. only one person sent his angel to John, but John is saying that the letter is from…. “him”, one person. And he identifies who this one person is,

But the Bible says, God gave this Revelation to Jesus, for Him to show to His servants. So let's follow the Bible.

In trying make these the same person, you negate the meaning of the verse. Where it says, ". . . which God gave Him . . .", you make that into, ". . . which God gave Himself . . ."

And later when it says

"from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ,", well, consider a moment,

"and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne"

Your assertion is this should be understood as, "and from me, who is before me". Do you see how this runs contrary to the way it's written?

What exactly does it mean to add to the Words of this Book?

You wrote:

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”.

The words given are not, "he that IS the seven Spirits of God", it actually reads, "He that HAS the seven Spirits of God"

Yes, let's follow what the Bible says.

Much love!

First thanks for the reply. second, since you're going to insist on a trinity UNDERSTANDING, and not a debate. sure. what you're failing to understand in the scriptures is that Jesus is a "Diversity" of himself shared in flesh. now lets give you the understanding. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". get your hebrew out and you will see that Aleph and the Tav there for God, as H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym, which is his plurality, which is to come. this plurality didn't come untill he came in flesh. let us prove this out.

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". here God said, let "US", and "OUR", right. but is this true here in Genesis 1? no and here's why. the very next verse states this, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them".
ok Marks, how did God go from "US" and "OUR" in verse 26 to "HIS" and "HE" which are single designations? what happen to the plurality in verse 26? it's not there, and here's why. his "diverse" state of "diversity"/plurality have not yet come. listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". see his OWN image/figure had not yet "Manifested" in flesh and blood.

and we can back this single designation up by the one who created the man who said "US" and "OUR" at genesis 1:26 & 26. listen, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female" the "he" here is God, for mark recorded the same conversation. Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female". so the "he" in matthews is "GOD" in mark who is the same "GOD" that made them Male and female. NOW IF YOU CANNOT TAKE THE LORD JESUS WORDS WHO CANNOT LIE, THEN WHO WORDS CAN YOU TRUST?. you answer that for yourself. see the lord Jesus is in a diverse state as "Father" OT, and as "Son" shared in flesh NT. see how easy it is just to follow the bible.

so can we now get back to the Book of revelation?

hoped that helped,

PICJAG.

 

[Davy]

Yes!

I've been looking forward to that date for a long time to see if that's it or not.

So glad someone else sees this.

That's not what we are supposed to be watching per our Lord Jesus' command to watch. No one knows the day or hour of His return. But we can know the signs leading up to His return that He gave us to be watching. And this is what His Book of Revelation is really all about, knowing the signs of the end so as to not be deceived.

 

[101G]

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".

First off, this verse is fully packed as one can see. the one spealing here is the Lord Jesus. the thing that reveals it's self is that the "Lord" is the "ALMIGHTY". do we have two that is almighty? of course not. it's the SAME one PERSON "Diversified". this is where many christian are in delusion. a while back a poster who is trinitarian adimited that the titles "LORD" and "Lord" are interchangeable. if that's the case then the persons they claim that in the Godhead then cannot be separate nor distinct. that would be confusion, and God is not the author of confusion.

but the bible speak of this delusion. first the OT, Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not". NT, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

that's why it's so important to know now, than later. oh well...

here we have the Lord Jesus in his Glorified State, (John 17:5). Jesus is the beginning, and the end of "ALL THINGS".

there is more to uncover, but I'll give other time to post their thoughts.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

That's not what we are supposed to be watching per our Lord Jesus' command to watch. No one knows the day or hour of His return. But we can know the signs leading up to His return that He gave us to be watching. And this is what His Book of Revelation is really all about, knowing the signs of the end so as to not be deceived.

but he did say we can know the signs. but as said, not the day nor the hour. which is correct.

PICJAG.

 

[Davy]

but he did say we can know the signs. but as said, not the day nor the hour. which is correct.

PICJAG.

Date setting is a dead end. That's the point.

 

[101G]

Date setting is a dead end. That's the point.

we know this, a sign is not a date.

Take care,
PICJAG

 

[Base12]

Date setting is a dead end. That's the point.

It's not a dead end if the ones setting the date have a plan already set in place...

Man 2.0 is here and will be going mainstream soon. The 2033 time-frame fits right in with what 'they' plan to do to us.

 

[Davy]

It's not a dead end if the ones setting the date have a plan already set in place...

Man 2.0 is here and will be going mainstream soon. The 2033 time-frame fits right in with what 'they' plan to do to us.

Date setting is dead, simply because our Lord Jesus said no man knows the 'day' of His coming. So to say we can know the 'day' is to actually call Him a liar. Better to be watching the signs He gave us to be watching.

 

[Davy]

Have you guys gotten to the 2nd verse of Revelation yet? Doesn't seem to be going too well.

 

[marks]

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

First, 1-2, Identification of this Prophecy.

It is the revealing of Jesus, God gave this to Jesus, for the purpose of showing His servants, and Jesus put it into an understandable form - signified it - and sent it to John via an angel. John testifies that this is the Word of God, and what Jesus testifies, and that this is truly what John saw.

This will inform us when we read, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day", as some take this to mean John was brought ahead in time to the Day of the LORD, however, John was not moved in time, a revelation was sent to him.

This is a faithful record of a prophecy that reveals Jesus to us.

Vs. 3, Intent for this Prophecy

It is to be shared with the church. It is to be known, because the time is "at hand", you can touch it. It is to inform the lives of those who will live through what it prophesies.

Blessed are those who keep the words of this prophecy, because you're about to go through this stuff.

Remember Tyre. The prophecy of Tyre's destruction, but the first part fulfilled by Nebuchadnezzar, and the second part fulfilled by Alexander? A space of time between?

Remember Isaiah, The LORD will give you sign, the virgin will bear. In Hebrew, this can mean virgin, or simply young woman. But when it is quoted by Matthew, he uses the word that can only mean virgin.

Isaiah's wife had children that were given to be signs to Ahaz, though she was not a virgin, fulfilling this OT prophecy. But this prophecy is also fulfilled hundreds of years later in Jesus.

In both of these examples, we can know this is real as portions were fulfilled in that day, and other portions fulfilled later. This is how much of prophecy seems to be, that God gives some prophecy that is fulfilled at the time, and that authenticates the prophecies that remain to be fulfilled later. He also uses the same prophecies in different ways.

It happened the way God said, so we know what else He said will also happen.

This time that is at hand, in the early date for the writing of Revelation this makes a lot of sense, as the Romans would have been about to come in and destroy Israel. And yet there is so much that is revealed that has not yet happened. Of course, depending on how you see things!

What is it we are to "keep"?

I think it is to continue in faith unto death, no matter what.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's not what we are supposed to be watching per our Lord Jesus' command to watch. No one knows the day or hour of His return. But we can know the signs leading up to His return that He gave us to be watching. And this is what His Book of Revelation is really all about, knowing the signs of the end so as to not be deceived.

And to believe that God is truly almighty even when the world is this antagonistic.

Much love!

 

[marks]

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John's personal greeting, as with the other Apostles, Grace and Peace, to you, from . . .

Him which is, and which was, and which is to come. There's a song, You were, You are, You will always be, inspired by this passage, but that's not what it means, more, You exist, You have existed, and You are coming here.

And from the seven spirits which are before his throne. As previously noted, this makes a distinction between these, there are seven Spirits before the throne, not on the throne.

Many have connected this with Isaiah 11,

2 And the spirit of the Lord(1) shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom(2) and understanding(3), the spirit of counsel(4) and might(5), the spirit of knowledge(6) and of the fear of the Lord(7);

Although to be fair, these others describe the Spirit of the Lord, so I would count this as 6, with the 7th in Isaiah 4,

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

But then that means counting these two, judgment and burning the same though they appear as two.

Thoughts?

And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness . . . the One Who speaks to us now, in Whom we can place our confidence.

Firstborn out of the dead ones . . . the One Who is proven, and who leads us into life

Archon of the kings of the earth, Jesus rules over them all. No matter what we are about to be told about what's going to be happening, even so, all authority has been given Him.

And so we respond to Jesus, Who loved us, and washed us by His blood, and has transformed us from dead in sin to kings and priests to His Father, to God, we respond to Him, ascribing to Him glory and dominion forever.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

the sons of zebedee ("worshipping him," let us note) caused the indignation, not John? i mean according to the passage? So wadr im not getting you i guess

The sons of Zebedee are John and James:

"And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them." Matt 4:21

 

[Waiting on him]

the sons of zebedee ("worshipping him," let us note) caused the indignation, not John? i mean according to the passage? So wadr im not getting you i guess

In my understanding the indignation was born out of envy?

If you love your brother there’s no indignation

Matthew 20:27 KJV
[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

This is what Jesus tells the 10 in the safety meeting after their indignation.
Tecarta Bible

 

[Willie T]

You guys do realize, don't you, that all these "signs" have been continually happening every single year, all over the world, since Jesus first spoke those words 2,000 years ago?

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009 @101G

Interestingly,

If Jesus is the Father, then how was it that Jesus said, "All power is given Me"? Who gave Jesus power? And if Jesus is not the Father, then Who is the Father, and Who is Jesus?

Much love!

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth:" Matt 28:18

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

So then with those two verses, and considering the following verses are they telling us that we will also receive "all power" as he did? What is the difference between "all power" and "power" as expressed by the two verses above? The word, "all"? But consider also this:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Then consider how Jesus prayed for us:

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" John 17:22

And Jesus said this about us, did he not?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Since we, the believers, are to be "like him" and are to do "greater works" than he did, why would not the "power" we receive as per Acts 1:8 be at least equal to the "all power" he received as per Matt 28:18?

 

[bbyrd009]

In my understanding the indignation was born out of envy?

If you love your brother there’s no indignation

Matthew 20:27 KJV
[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

This is what Jesus tells the 10 in the safety meeting after their indignation.
Tecarta Bible

and that relates to what is it? how, again? ty

 

[marks]

@bbyrd009 @101G
Since we, the believers, are to be "like him" and are to do "greater works" than he did, why would not the "power" we receive as per Acts 1:8 be at least equal to the "all power" he received as per Matt 28:18?

Are you suggesting we as believers receive the same authority - exousia - as Jesus? Greater authority than Jesus? This is not dunamis, ability, rather, exousia, the right, or authority.

?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You guys do realize, don't you, that all these "signs" have been continually happening every single year, all over the world, since Jesus first spoke those words 2,000 years ago?

I have a difficult time understanding this point of view.

 

[marks]

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

So many interpretations of this that I've heard.

He comes with clouds . . . this is allegorical that He judges, and the clouds are the "storm clouds of destruction", or are the foreign armies marching to destroy,

or the clouds are the clouds in the sky as Jesus returns through them . . . or the clouds are the heavenly citizens . . .

Every eye will see Him. Has every eye seen Him? And those which pierced Him? The Roman soldiers? Those resonsible for their activity, the Jewish leaders? Those particular men? Those who are of the same nation?

All the families of the earth will grieve over Him. @Willie T , does this happen in every year all over the world?

Alpha and Omega, beginning and ending, we must never lose sight that everything begins and ends with God, the all powerful, the One who is, and was, and is coming here.

Is this not the heart of the message of Revelation? God will make His home with man! How amazing is that??

Much love!