The Book of Revelation, Understood?

[Willie T]

I have a difficult time understanding this point of view.

The point is that none of these "signs" suddenly began happening in just the past few decades. They have always been happening, and people in every one of the 50 generations since Christ was here could swear, just as we do, that it was only THEIR generation that had to be the last one.
And, "No", these "signs" have NOT become more prevalent in these times. We happen to know about more of them today only because of our better detection methods and our worldwide INSTANT media coverage that tells us if anyone even sneezes anywhere in the world.

 

[marks]

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

John, the Apostle, the one receiving this Revelation, yet also our brother!

Companion . . . from "sun", like, "co-" same as used in Galatians, co-crucified with Chirst, here, co-koinonos, you will recognize this as similar to koinonia, the idea being participants with each other, we are participating together in tribulation and afflictions. And not that only, we are participating together in Jesus' kingdom, and in His patience. His patience. We participate together.

John writes, he "was" in the isle called Patmos, and apparently wrote this all down after he left the island.

"I was in the Spirit" . . . Literally, I became in the spirit (no upper/lower case in original), or I came to be in the spirit . . . John is writing about having transitioned from his general state, still called "in the Spirit" (Romans 8), yet now, becoming in the Spirit, I think this refers to more distinct spiritual state.

On the Lord's day, not on the Day of the Lord.

He hears a voice, like a great trumpet, not unknown of God speaking. Moses and the Israelites heard this same voice and were terrified.

And it begins . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

The point is that none of these "signs" suddenly began happening in just the past few decades. They have always been happening, and people in every one of the 50 generations since Christ was here could swear, just as we do, that it was only THEIR generation that had to be the last one.
And, "No", these "signs" have NOT become more prevalent in these times. We happen to know about more of them today only because of our better detection methods and our worldwide INSTANT media coverage that tells us if anyone even sneezes anywhere in the world.

So when we're talking about signs, what signs are you thinking of? The image of the beast? Mark of the beast? No one buy or sell? beheaded if you don't worship the image? People have been executed for not worshiping the false Gods, but all the detail? He makes fire come from heaven?

Isreal living in protected in the wilderness as the beast wars against them, to be saved by Jesus' return?

I can't seem to match these things up in history.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@bbyrd009 @101G


"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth:" Matt 28:18

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

So then with those two verses, and considering the following verses are they telling us that we will also receive "all power" as he did? What is the difference between "all power" and "power" as expressed by the two verses above? The word, "all"? But consider also this:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Then consider how Jesus prayed for us:

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" John 17:22

And Jesus said this about us, did he not?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Since we, the believers, are to be "like him" and are to do "greater works" than he did, why would not the "power" we receive as per Acts 1:8 be at least equal to the "all power" he received as per Matt 28:18?

John 1:11-12He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Waiting on him]

and that relates to what is it? how, again? ty

Maybe the misunderstanding is mine, I thought the (what is it?) was what is the message to the churches.

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe the misunderstanding is mine, I thought the (what is it?) was what is the message to the churches.

ah ok, thought you saw some interesting connection to manna i wasnt getting!

 

[Waiting on him]

So when we're talking about signs, what signs are you thinking of? The image of the beast? Mark of the beast? No one buy or sell? beheaded if you don't worship the image? People have been executed for not worshiping the false Gods, but all the detail? He makes fire come from heaven?

Isreal living in protected in the wilderness as the beast wars against them, to be saved by Jesus' return?

I can't seem to match these things up in history.

Could it have something to do with the church in Israel at the time being so poor that Paul has to collect from other churches to help sustain them?

Real question is who/what is the beast?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

manna

Psalm 147:16 He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.

have you ever looked up “hoarfrost”

 

[bbyrd009]

ha!

 

[Willie T]

You are aware, aren't you, that Rome (I believe it was Rome) had established and official markets that required an identification system to both buy or sell?

And have you done much reading of the history of those times? It is horrific.

 

[bbyrd009]

I can't seem to match these things up in history.

hmm, no one is allowed to buy or sell without the mark seems like a pretty good description of our "free market" that is taxed from every angle now, and black marketers and other tax avoiders are punished, yeh? The others are equally relevant to today imo

 

[Waiting on him]

You are aware, aren't you, that Rome (I believe it was Rome) had established and official markets that required an identification system to both buy or sell?

And have you done much reading of the history of those times? It is horrific.

I... wasn’t aware of that.
Thanks.

 

[bbyrd009]

You are aware, aren't you, that Rome (I believe it was Rome) had established and official markets that required an identification system to both buy or sell?

And have you done much reading of the history of those times? It is horrific.

^
bada bing

 

[Waiting on him]

^
bada bing

I need to expand on my study references.

 

[marks]

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

John hears a Voice, I AM alpha and omega, the 'protos' and 'eschatos', the first, the last. Write what you see and send it to these.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

John turns to see the voice, and he sees 7 candlesticks, and Jesus in the midst.

clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Daniel 10
5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

In Daniel, this is not Jesus . . .

Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

In Revelation, this IS Jesus . . .

Revelation 1
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;

What does it mean to you that their descriptions are so similar?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

I need to expand on my study references.

tbh i think the full story on Rome is only coming to light as we speak...or maybe being rediscovered as we speak, dunno

 

[Waiting on him]

tbh i think the full story on Rome is only coming to light as we speak...or maybe being rediscovered as we speak, dunno

I can’t think of any form of government that doesn’t operate on the model of man exploiting man, other than the government of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

"For more on the connection between the gospel and the war on Rome that continues to this day, read our articles on Beth-horon, the place where Julius' notorious Legion Twelve was defeated at the start of the Jewish Revolt, Onesimus, Antichrist, Caesar, Hannibal, and Legion..."

from The amazing name Illyricum: meaning and etymology btw, which was amazing imo

 

[marks]

You are aware, aren't you, that Rome (I believe it was Rome) had established and official markets that required an identification system to both buy or sell?

And have you done much reading of the history of those times? It is horrific.

Many absolutely horrible things have been done. Not just then, the Holocaust stands as an horrible example of the brutality and evil enacted against God's chosen.

They are using implants in Europe to pay for things. But worldwide . . . in the way stated . . .

?

 

[marks]

Could it have something to do with the church in Israel at the time being so poor that Paul has to collect from other churches to help sustain them?

I'm thinking that is means that when the Jews living in Judea see the beast ruler sit in the temple, that they evacuate into the desert, where God takes care of them.