The Case Against the Trinity
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To embrace trinitarianism, you have to embrace all kinds of contradictions and accept all manner of redefinition of words. Son comes from the Father. There is no co-equal.
And the Bible says this over and over again.
1 Corinthians 11:3
The Voice
3 But it is important that you understand this about headship: the Anointed One is the head of every man, the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of the Anointed.
Wrong. Read elsewhere in this thread. It’s already been refuted. A lame and desperate reach using figurative speech.
...contradictions and utter demented nonsense.
THis is my point, Wrangler, where it becomes just utterly offensive and defaming to God, ...i truly question the salvation of one who holds such a deranged view of God, and His wisdom?
@Backlit
That's true guys, that there's a great deal of audacity in being so assertive and dogmatic, about a doctrine that, just to begin, is devoid of a single definitional term in the entire Bible. Let alone, the utter and indisputable, confounding and implausible theology of the doctrine itself.
Thus, I would be so audacious to affirm that the doctrine is heretical. This much is within our jurisdiction and obligation to take a position on. We must denounce philosophies and principles that undermine God's glory, as in regard to His ontology, soteriology and biblical attestation. If, like you said, the doctrine is obscure, and only derived from implicit statements (eisegesis), when it is the most confusing and unfathomable tenet of them all (would require the most exposition), this becomes grounds to assertively discredit it. And then, coupled with all the previous accusations, we unequivocally denounce it, claiming it to be defamatory and heretical.
This, I think is reasonable, and justifiably within our saintly prerogative and authority.
yes, you quoted it (which is all that you are capable of), but @Wrangler exegeted it, ...competently.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Yet with all that said we do need to know how to relate to the Son, have at least a fair understanding of who He claimed to be and why, as well as a respectful understanding of who the Spirit is. It whose Spirit He is. Or it is. Yep, there are many questions regarding the nature of the Godhead and how they relate ontologically to one another, but there ought to be no questions whatsoever in regards His character, and His relation to us. Some however question things that ought to be clear and obvious. One I personally dislike is that of strict trinitarianism is to be embraced, then a literal Farther Son relationship must be discarded for in Co equal co eternal paradigms that relationship becomes purely metaphorical. I am off that literal camp.
Yes, I would agree, that definitively, we cannot ignore the implications of the emphatic and incessant appellations of Father and Son. Literal, of course. Meaningful and pragmatic, absolutely. Metaphorical, how so (rhetorical)?
Yes, we need to understand this undeniable and profound relationship, that's our duty. My only point was, we can be dogmatic of what it's not. ...which is the easier task, and thus, more reliable - even a fool can recognize a fault or error, despite not being able to correct it.
Paul Christensen
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- Mar 2, 2020
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The truth is that we see through a glass darkly. We don't see the full picture. Believing or not in a trinity as describing the essential nature of God is not compulsory for getting saved and born again of the Holy Spirit.
The trouble is that some think they see the full picture as if God respects them above the common herd and gives them a special revelation about Himself that ordinary believers cannot gain from their reading of the Bible.
Michael1985
Active Member
I'm not opposed to the Trinity. It's a reasonable position. But I think there are other arrangements of the divine that are also workable. In short, I really don't have much of a position on the matter anymore and consider it entirely a theological and philosophical exercise that really isn't important at the end of the day in terms of one's faith.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Nevertheless, it does not plainly say “Jesus is God”; it strongly alludes to it though...
Scripture is not straightforward, neither should we. Is it not sufficient enough to use the same language scripture uses to describe the Godhead, and not invent to ourselves our own words and titles?
In Mark 9:7 God said through a voice in the cloud, “This is my Son.” That would have been a super excellent time to pronounce God incarnate was his Son.
We are all children of God, as God says Jesus was.
We are all children of God, as God says Jesus was.
Yes, there is an element of that, self-righteousness and being blessed above others, that is revealed when one claims to assert the very definition of Salvation. As I said to Backlit, I believe that there are some doctrines or tenets of the faith that are easily discerned as heretical, for the reasons that I gave, and it is incumbent to denounce them accordingly.
Outside of that, yes, the comprehensive and exhaustive requirements for Redemption are somewhat elusive.
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