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The Case Against the Trinity

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Wrangler, Feb 14, 2021.

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  1. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
     
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    And how he did this was through obedience to God and accepting the Holy Spirit of God, which was prophesied to God’s servant, not God incarnate. Isaiah 53 comes to mind.

    The Bible is explicit on this point: one man brought sin into this world; one man atoned for it. Emphasis on man, not God incarnate.
     
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  3. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? Romans 3:23 says all have sinned. So yes, you do have to be God to be sinless and Scripture PLAINLY says Jesus is God. Colossians also says that everything was created by Jesus. How can that be if he is just another human? By the way the Hebrews passage is talking about the sinless Jesus who is God.
     
  4. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    But God cannot be tempted:

    James 1:13 KJV
    [13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man

    But Jesus was:

    Hebrews 4:15 KJV
    For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Scripture refutes your assertion without question.

    And try to be sober minded when answering posts and leave your emotions at the door.

    Thanks!
     
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  5. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn’t.

    It implies it.

    But it is not a doctrine that scripture proves saints by; only man does.
     
  6. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And you take Scripture out of its context. Not surprising. Jesus was truly God and truly man. He took humanity upon himself. God the Father, cannot be tempted, this is true.
     
  7. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.... That's not an implication. That is a statement.

    Furthermore, How was everything created by Jesus?
     
  8. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    Scripture does not say this.

    Christ (embodying the qualities of God) did this, not God.

    And yet, even the Apostle Paul wrote that we should acknowledge these things as a mystery:

    Colossians 2:2 KJV
    That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ

    Don’t you think this would have been a logical place in his writings to explain the “Trinity” if it was such an important thing to belabor as men do these days?
     
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  9. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again, taken out of context. Paul clearly states that by Christ all things were created. You glossed over that fact. John 1 says he is God. You gloss over that fact. And that is not the only place that Paul speaks of the mystery of God. He speaks of it in 1 Timothy as well but boldly states God manifested himself in the flesh. In Philippians it says he took on the form of a man. To take on a form you first have to have another form. And of course Paul tells us that form was the form of God.
     
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  10. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    Well, you said it yourself, 'we're the sinners'. What's a sin, it's a transgression against God. So then, since God is the injured party, how can He resolve the offense, to Himself?
    You trinitarians say the dumbest things.
     
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  11. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    It's a payment for the sin. A replacement, a scapegoat. Do you even read the Bible?
     
  12. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    So Who isn't God? Jesus? The Father? The Holy Spirit? You don't even know!
     
  13. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it says Jesus is God. lol
    John 1 The Word was God!
     
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  14. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    The fact of all this is that the nature and character of God remains largely a mystery. When the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible, He didn't think it important to let us know everything about God's essential nature. He has provided those aspects of God's nature that we need to know. The fact that the Bible does not explicitly state that God is trinitarian in nature, but only implies it through comments that Jesus made about Himself, and John's introduction to his gospel.

    In fact, Old Testament believers knew of only one God - Jehovah (one of the names given). They were aware of someone called "the son of God", for example the 4th man in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace. They were aware that God had a spirit in the descriptions of what happened when the spirit of God came on someone. But there was only one God in their thinking.

    So, the idea that Jesus had a Father in heaven was so foreign to the Jewish religious leaders of His time, that they accused Him of blasphemy, and it was only through a miracle that He escaped being stoned.

    Even the disciples of John the Baptizer knew of only one God person. This is shown through Paul asking the Ephesian disciples whether they received the Holy Spirit since they believed. They replied that they didn't know of any Holy Spirit.

    Even Peter, when he had the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, thought that Jesus was sent from God, rather than knowing that Jesus was God Himself. It was only after the three gospels were widely circulated, along with the letters of Paul, that believers got some idea that there was more to God than what they originally thought. They discovered that there is a Father, Christ the Son, and Holy Spirit, but they had no real idea of how they were connected, whether they were reflections of the same Person, or whether there were three separate people. But it did not seem important to the gospel writers or to Paul, because none of them went into any detail about that side of God's nature.

    So, I have come to the conclusion that trying to establish whether or not there is a trinity, is barking up the wrong tree. It is like someone asking an elderly preachers what God was doing before the creation of the universe. He answered, "Preparing Hell for the over curious!"
     
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  15. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    It is a sad chapter in church history that a group of clergymen under the auspices of a pagan emperor should decide what comprises the Godhead, give it a confusing title, then relentlessly and cruelly persecute those who disagreed with them. Even more sadly, that same mindset remains to this day as exemplified by the disdain and pompous self important declarations pronounced upon the doubters in threads such as these.
     
  16. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    Amen, the Trinity!
     
  17. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    The English Reformers did their best to describe the nature of God when they formulated the Westminster Confession of Faith, but with any document that tries to formulate the Christian faith, it's going to be imperfect, because we have the treasure of the gospel within earthen vessels.

    I think the Unitarian zealots who rant and rave against Trinitarians are just as bad. They are as extremist as Trinitarian zealots. Like the two popes in the 10th Century who excommunicated each other, both sets of zealots condemn each other to "hell" over the issue. More moderate Unitarians and Trinitarians just get on with doing what they see as God's will for their lives.
     
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  18. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    ‘For us, there is one God, the Father.’
    1 Corinthians 8:6
     
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  19. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    And They make up God of the Bible.
    Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
     
  20. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    See the thread about why the Apostles disobeyed the risen Christ.
     
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