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The Case Against the Trinity

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Wrangler, Feb 14, 2021.

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  1. jaybird

    jaybird Well-Known Member

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    Why did it take so long to form the doctrine? In the late 500s they are still calling councils making changes to the doctrine. That's almost 600 years after Jesus. If it's "plainly" taught in scripture it shouldn't take that long to figure out.
    How long is 600 years? In Europe they didn't know about the new world, kjv bible not invented, Luther had not nailed his letter to the door yet. That's been a lot of years since all that.
     
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    This is a great question and you know we get a disingenuous answer; that it was always the doctrine.

    As I posted in another thread, the trinity is so important, it is not mentioned one time in the Bible. The mental gymnastics to synthesize their doctrine, desperately taking verses out of context and projecting a trinitarian interpretation is undermined by the fact that the entire Bible is written by unitarian/monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

    The importance of this non-existent doctrine is seen in the fact that trinitarians would rather one NOT be saved, not accept Jesus if the Jesus one goes to is not the man-God thesis. The big reveal that got Jesus killed was him being the Messiah. God incarnate was not

    High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One?

    Jesus: 62 I am.
    Mark 14:61-62
     
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  3. Grunt Hemlock

    Grunt Hemlock Active Member

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    Luke was a unitarian/monotheist Jew who rejects the Trinity to this day?
     
  4. Grunt Hemlock

    Grunt Hemlock Active Member

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    Wrangler said:
    "the entire Bible is written by unitarian/monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day."

    Just pinch off the Gospel of Luke and Acts of the Apostles and see what a significant chunk of the New Testament was written by the Gentile Luke.

    Asinine statements by those who don't know their butt from a hot rock concerning the Bible are just ludicrous.
     
  5. ByGraceThroughFaith

    ByGraceThroughFaith Active Member

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    The Distinction of Persons in The Holy Trinity
     
  6. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    You do know there is no distinction between being and person, right? That is a trinitarian construct.

    Jesus said he was going to his God. That is the only God. Jesus' God is the only God. He is Spirit and his Spirit is holy. There is no 3rd being or person. However, the passion people have is the man-God thesis. Do you accept that Hunter, the son of Joe Biden, is not Joe Biden?
     
  7. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    In another thread, the debater was perfectly willing to concede Acts 17:31 identify the fact that Jesus is a man that God raised. (Of course, trinitarians do not feel nailed down in admitting Jesus was a man due to duality; he was man and non-man.)

    Silence ensued when I pointed out that Acts 17:31 shows that God chose, selected, appointed Jesus.
     
  8. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    This is a good analysis.

     
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  9. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE

    matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


    Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

    John 5:18
    Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!
     
  10. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    All oppose trinitarianism to the end:
    1. Logic.
    2. Definition.
    3. Language Usage.
     
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  11. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Proof text. Good description

     
  12. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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  13. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Great point.
     
  14. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Another poster pointed out the passage that Adam was the man who brought sin into the world and that was balanced by a perfect man who redeemed the world.

    Of course, this poses no problem for dualists.
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is Lord! Lord is God! Jesus is God!

    it is not in mortal man to work miracles, but it is in God’s nature! And Jesus Christ worked miracles!
     
  16. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    All authority has been given Him by God the Father...
    What is the definition of the word God
    1. God, Supreme Being(noun)

      the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions

    2. deity, divinity, god, immortal(noun)

      any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force

    3. god(noun)

      a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people

      "he was a god among men"

    4. idol, graven image, god(noun)

      a material effigy that is worshipped

      "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"
    The Bible speaks of gods and against the worship of idol gods.
    The god of other religions such as Hindu or Muslim pray to "God" but it isn't the same God we pray to.
    We believe in God the Father......God the Son....and God the Holy Spirit...
    Why is it phrased as God "the" ....Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
    God is an identifier of who and what He is....God is another word for Deity.
    God is NOT His name...His name is Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai...and others.
    Does this make sense?
     
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  17. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    The Bible rightly calls God the Father. There is not a single instance in the Bible were it is phrase God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.


    according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
    1 Peter 1:2 (ESV)
     
  18. ByGraceThroughFaith

    ByGraceThroughFaith Active Member

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    Can you show one verse in the Old Testament where God is called the Father
     
  19. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    And he will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
    Psalm 89:26
     
  20. tsr

    tsr Active Member

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    Classically the Trinity was defined in these terms: God is one in essence and three in person.
    We are accustomed to thinking in terms of “One person equals one essence.” This equation may be a convenient one, but it’s not a rationally necessary one. The Trinity is indeed unusual and mysterious, but it is not inherently or analytically irrational.

    If the formula for the Trinity asserted that God is one in essence and three in essence or that he is three in person and one in person, we would be engaging in the nonsense of contradiction. Something cannot be one in A and three in A at the same time and in the same relationship. That’s contradiction.

    The classical formula of the Trinity is that God is one in one thing (one in A, essence) and three in a different thing (three in B, persona). The church fathers were careful not to formulate the nature of God in contradictory terms. The distinction among persons of the Godhead may be “essential” to Christianity, but the distinction itself is not an essential distinction about God. That is, though the distinction among persons is a real and necessary distinction, it is not an essential distinction.


    The formula is not meant to say that essence and person are the same things. Essence refers to the being of God, while person is used here as substance within being. Essence is primary and persona is secondary. Essence is the similarity, while personal is the dissimilarity in the nature of God. He is unified in one essence, but diversified in three personae.
     
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