Mungo said:
The term Roman Catholic Church (RCC) was a term for the Catholic Church invented by English Protestants in the 16th century. According to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary it was a conciliatory gesture in place of the pejorative terms Romanist and Romish.
I'm pretty sure it started way before that when Rome and Constantinople we're vying for control. Also, another reason the term Roman is applied has to do with the Roman Rite that RCC uses in the West, who's official title is 'The Latin (Western) Catholic Church'. The name Protestant, was a work of The Diet of the Holy Roman Empire, assembled at Speyer in April, 1529, well before Roman Catholic was commonly coined.
Mungo said:
The full title is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It is commonly abbreviated to Catholic Church in documents. For example the Catechism is titled “Catechism Of The Catholic Church”.
Within the Catholic church this is not surprising in my opinion but as I use it to identify the fact that I was born and raised into, I don't need to use its official title.
Mungo said:
Of course Jesus didn’t differentiate. Heaven was closed until Jesus opened by his death and Resurrection. Souls now exist in heaven and in a state that we call purgatory. And no I’m not going to turn this into a Purgatory thread. I only mentioned it for completeness.
True believing Christians don't die and go to heaven because Jesus said no man has ever seen God but he also said to the thief on the cross that today you will be with me in Paradise so that is where believers Souls exist today, in Paradise. All unbelievers go to hell which will eventually be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity.
Mungo said:
Right, he did say build not found. But that is the only correct point in your statement.
And totally changes the impetus of your assertion.
Mungo said:
And metaphors mean something. Yes, Jesus said build a house on rock and Peter is the Rock (Kephas) that Jesus built on Mt 16;18). In Eph 2:20 Paul describes Jesus as the cornerstone. But then Paul males a habit of mixing his metaphors.
Yes they do, in the way they were intended, not in a literal way. Peter was not the Rock the Jesus referred to, his testimony or confession was the underpinning the provided salvation. That confession is how people become believers and part of the church. It is the base the Christian lifestyle is built on and that is what Jesus referred to. Not Peter is a man but Peter's confession of who Jesus was as we all must do in order to be saved and part of the church.
Mungo said:
I didn’t say Jude gave us a set of doctrines.
You said, "He gave that Church one set of doctrines (Jud 3)."
Mungo said:
Dead leaders are not much use.
That's very true, but how does that address what you said and what I responded to?
Mungo said:
Which they didn’t complete in their lifetimes. Hence the need for others to continue their work.
We're all supposed to continue that work, but that doesn't make us all apostles. We are all called to spread the good news but that doesn't make everybody in Apostle either.
Mungo said:
Yes, we agree on something. He also said he would be with them.
No, that is the second coming.
Considering that he was just about to ascend to the Father when he uttered those words, giving them a solemn promise he would be with them for a few more seconds would be nonsensical.
And he is, as the Holy Spirit. Remember we serve a Triune God.
Mungo said:
Yes it is a visible Church and the authority to forgive sins was transferable.
You miss the point that Jesus was making here. On many occasions he heal people and when he did he said go and sin no more. That healing was a way of forgiving whatever causes them to be sick in the first place. That is the authority that he gave his apostles. You was not transferable but under the New Covenant we are given Gifts of healing by the Holy Spirit. Nobody is giving power to forgive sins and indeed nobody is given authority to be a mediator other than Jesus.
Mungo said:
What concensus? If you mean the majority opinion then that is a strange way to get to the truth.
I'm pretty sure you know what consensus means, improper hermeneutical exegesis is not a strange way to get to the truth it is the only way to get to the truth. When it's based on the word of God and not man-made traditions it is the only way to get to the truth. Acts 4:12, 1 Cor 3:1, 2 Cor 11:4.
Mungo said:
Moreover the majority is the Catholic Church and therefore you do not accept the consensus anyway.
The majority of the Catholic church is in South America and I'm fairly sure that very few of them delve into the word of God with any understanding.
Mungo said:
There are no denominations within the Catholic Church.
Not true.
1. Armenian (Eastern-rite Catholic)
2. Bulgarian (Byzantine rite)
3. Byzantine-rite (jurisdiction for more than one ethnic group)
4. Chaldean (Eastern Syrian rile)
5. Coptic (Alexandrian rite)
6. Ethmpic, Alexandrian rite)
7. Greek (Byzantine rite)
8. Hungarian (Byzantine rite)
9. Italo-Albanian (Byzantine rile)
10. Jurisdiction for both Latin-rite and Eastern-rite Catholics
11. Latin-roe Catholic
12. Malankara (Syro-Antiochian Eastern Syrian), Syro-Malankarese
13. Maronite (Syro-Antiochian, Western Syrian)
14. Melkite (Byzantine, Greek Catholic; Arabic-speaking)
15. Oriental (Jurisdiction for several Eastern rites)
16. Ian Byzantine rite
17. Russian (Byzantine rite)
18. Ruthenian (Byzantine rite)
19. Slovak (Byzantine rite)
20. Syro-Malabarese (Eastern Syrian)
21. Syrian, Syriac-speaking (Syro-Antiochian West Syrian)
22. Ukrainian Byzantine rite
Mungo said:
If you mean that some individual Catholics that do not accept infallibly defined dogmas then there may be, but then can they truly be called Catholics?
But there is only one set of infallibly defined dogmas in the Catholic Church. And no contradiction with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Well that would be up to the RCC but as far as Christianity is concerned yes this agreement with any Doctrine does not mean they are not Christian. My son-in-law is Catholic and he definitely doesn't agree with everything that goes on in the Roman Catholic Church. For the most part he attends my local Pentecostal congregation.
Yes I know, and you can find it here;
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm