THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST

[Mungo]

Catholic Church
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"Catholic" and "Catholicism" redirect here. For other uses, see Catholic Church (disambiguation).

Catholic Church
Latin: Ecclesia Catholica

St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican City
Classification Catholic
Scripture Bible
Theology Catholic theology
Polity Episcopal[1]
Structure Communion
Pope Francis
Administration Roman Curia
Particular churches
sui iuris Latin Church, and 23 Eastern Catholic Churches
Dioceses

• Archdioceses: 640
• Dioceses: 2,851

Parishes 221,700
Region Worldwide
Language Ecclesiastical Latin and native languages
Liturgy Western and Eastern
Headquarters Vatican City
Founder Jesus, according to
sacred tradition
Origin 1st century
Holy Land, Roman Empire[2][3]
Members 1.329 billion (2018) (baptized)[4]
Clergy

• Bishops: 5,304
• Priests: 415,656
• Deacons: 45,255

Hospitals 5,500[5]
Primary schools 95,200[6]
Secondary schools 43,800
Official website Holy See

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St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican City

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The Catholic Church, sometimes referred to as the Roman Catholic Church,...





Don,t be ashamed of your Pope.

Of course I'm not ashamed of the Pope.
The Pope is not what we are discussing but the name of the Caholic Church.
You now seem to have finally accepted that it is called the Catholic Church not the Roman Catholic Church (or RCC).
Good

 

[Truther]

Of course I'm not ashamed of the Pope.
The Pope is not what we are discussing but the name of the Caholic Church.
You now seem to have finally accepted that it is called the Catholic Church not the Roman Catholic Church (or RCC).
Good

No, your Church headquarters are in Rome, therefore you are Roman Catholic.

Go ask your priest if you don't believe me.

 

[Truther]

That does not negate the points I made.

Sure it does.

Prior to Jerusalem, they were not endued with power from on high.

Powerless church?

No, the power was given in Jerusalem at Pentecost. The church began with power from on high.

 

[Mungo]

Sure it does.

Prior to Jerusalem, they were not endued with power from on high.

Powerless church?

Prior to Jerusalem?
What does that mean?

No, the power was given in Jerusalem at Pentecost. The church began with power from on high.

You are in denial of scripture.

 

[Mungo]

No, your Church headquarters are in Rome, therefore you are Roman Catholic.

Go ask your priest if you don't believe me.

Don't be silly.
The location doesn't define the name of the Church.

The name of a Church is what it calls itself.

Moreover the "headquarters" is in Vatican City not Rome.

And again you just ignore points I make when they contradict you.
let's try again.
At one time 7 successive Popes resided in Avignon in France.
The Church's name didn't become the Avignon Catholic Church.

It's interesting that you post a whole section from Wikipedia headed Catholic Church yet you want to call it the Roman Catholic Church.
That just shows how silly you are being over this.

As I pointed out earlier, persisting calling it the RCC (or Roman Catholic Church) is just anti-Catholic bigotry.

 

[Truther]

Don't be silly.
The location doesn't define the name of the Church.

The name of a Church is what it calls itself.

Moreover the "headquarters" is in Vatican City not Rome.

And again you just ignore points I make when they contradict you.
let's try again.
At one time 7 successive Popes resided in Avignon in France.
The Church's name didn't become the Avignon Catholic Church.

It's interesting that you post a whole section from Wikipedia headed Catholic Church yet you want to call it the Roman Catholic Church.
That just shows how silly you are being over this.

As I pointed out earlier, persisting calling it the RCC (or Roman Catholic Church) is just anti-Catholic bigotry.

What is the difference between a Roman Catholic and a California Catholic?

Please be specific.

 

[Truther]

Prior to Jerusalem?
What does that mean?


You are in denial of scripture.

Luke 24
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high...


Acts 1
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me....

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth...

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.



So, you teach about a powerless church with no remission of sins, since you teach the church began before Jerusalem(Pentecost).

 

[Mungo]

What is the difference between a Roman Catholic and a California Catholic?

Please be specific.

Any difference would be irrelevant.
We are discussing the name of the worldwide Church called the Catholic Church not individual Catholics or congregations.

 

[Mungo]

Luke 24
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high...


Acts 1
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me....

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth...

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.



So, you teach about a powerless church with no remission of sins, since you teach the church began before Jerusalem(Pentecost).

Before Pentecost
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”(John 20:21-23) .

 

[justbyfaith]

In fact, a limited few of the disciples did receive the Holy Spirit before Pentecost; however this did not apply to the entire church.

The church, as a body, was not empowered until Pentecost itself; when the Holy Ghost fell on the disciples with a mighty rushing wind and tongues of fire (Acts of the Apostles 2).

 

[Truther]

Before Pentecost
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”(John 20:21-23) .

The command implied to go to Jerusalem in the near future to get power(Holy Ghost).
Remission of sins were to coincide there too.

 

[Truther]

Any difference would be irrelevant.
We are discussing the name of the worldwide Church called the Catholic Church not individual Catholics or congregations.

....which is the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Mungo]

The command implied to go to Jerusalem in the near future to get power(Holy Ghost).
Remission of sins were to coincide there too.

Never mind what you try to infer.
What it actually says is the leaders of the Church received the Holy Spirit and were empowered to forgive sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

What it actually says is the leaders of the Church received the Holy Spirit and were empowered to forgive sins.

Anyone who has the Holy Ghost truly has the power to forgive and retain sins.

 

[Mungo]

....which is the Roman Catholic Church.

Untrue.
It is the Catholic Church.
You might like it different for your own agenda but the fact is that the Church led by Pope Frances is Catholic Church.

 

[justbyfaith]

What's the big deal about whether it is identified as Roman or not?

 

[Mungo]

In fact, a limited few of the disciples did receive the Holy Spirit before Pentecost; however this did not apply to the entire church.

The church, as a body, was not empowered until Pentecost itself; when the Holy Ghost fell on the disciples with a mighty rushing wind and tongues of fire (Acts of the Apostles 2).

If the Church, as a body, was not empowered until Pentecost itself then the Church, as a body, existed before Pentecost.
Simple logic.

 

[Mungo]

What's the big deal about whether it is identified as Roman or not?

The name Roman Catholic Church was invented by Protestants as a pejorative term, along with Romanist and similar.
Why should Catholics accept such derogatory labels.

Would it be be OK refer to the Baptist Church as BCC - Bonkers Baptist Church, or the Lutheran Church as LCC - Loony Lutheran Church?

Why can't the Catholic Church be referred to by it's name - Catholic Church.

 

[justbyfaith]

If the Church, as a body, was not empowered until Pentecost itself then the Church, as a body, existed before Pentecost.
Simple logic.

That doesn't necessarily follow.

It could have been empowered the day that it became an actual body.

But a point that can be made in your favour is that if the church consists of those who have the Holy Spirit, there was indeed a church consisting of about two or three disciples the day that Jesus breathed on them and imparted to them the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mungo]

That doesn't necessarily follow.

It could have been empowered the day that it became an actual body.

But a point that can be made in your favour is that if the church consists of those who have the Holy Spirit, there was indeed a church consisting of about two or three disciples the day that Jesus breathed on them and imparted to them the Holy Spirit.

More than two or three, more like 10 - the eleven apostles (12 less Judas) less Thoms who wasn't there.
You also need to take into account how Jesus apponted the 12 and the seventy and sent them out with power.

And again at the Last Supper Jesus says to the 12 apostles “You are those who have stood by me in my trials; and I confer on you, just as my Father has conferred on me, a kingdom," (Lk 22:28-29)