The Church Is Not Walking In Her Full Authority !!

[Hollyrock]

We need to step up our game because the devil has certainly stepped up his. Teenagers getting gunned down, adored artist's are dying too young, shootings in our schools, suicides due to bullying, deadly weather patterns, same sex marriages and homosexuality, depression, racism...you name it and the devil is on it 24/7 while the Church is either sleeping or chasing the prosperity message...me, me, me. We and our Church leaders especially, need to open our eyes and hearts to a world in dire staits. We need to be aware of what is going on outside the Church walls so that we can stand with the sword of faith against the wiles of the enemy...we forget that he is already defeated and under our feet !!! Yes, there is some power in the Church but not enough to handle the increasing darkness coming on the earth. We must pay attention !! Get in a good Church !! Fast and pray !! The world is counting on us so lets make it do what it do.

I forgot to mention all the babies and children going missing or killed

 

[Rach1370]

Hey Holly. There are some pretty horrible things in the world. There have been ever since sin entered into the world, and sadly we must expect them to continue until Jesus returns. I think the response of the Church in these things needs to be two fold. I think yes, we do need to step up in many area's. Become involved with our community, be aware of political happenings, to love others and stand firm in biblical truth. And I also think we, as a Church, need to pray for the Spirit to move. It's only through His power that we have any hope of making a difference.
What particular things would you suggest to make the Church more effective against such sin?

 

[Strat]

Mankind is suffering for it's rejection of God,what is sown is reaped....the only thing the Church can do is what it is called to do and that is be an example...some will follow it while some will not.....the Bible does not tell us that the Church will create a nice world that has it's act together before Christ returns....the Bible says the world is going to get worse and worse and it is.

 

[Hollyrock]

Hey Holly. There are some pretty horrible things in the world. There have been ever since sin entered into the world, and sadly we must expect them to continue until Jesus returns. I think the response of the Church in these things needs to be two fold. I think yes, we do need to step up in many area's. Become involved with our community, be aware of political happenings, to love others and stand firm in biblical truth. And I also think we, as a Church, need to pray for the Spirit to move. It's only through His power that we have any hope of making a difference.
What particular things would you suggest to make the Church more effective against such sin?

Hi Rach, I can't put it any better than you just did...we just have to DO IT because it's so easy to retreat into our own little world.

Mankind is suffering for it's rejection of God,what is sown is reaped....the only thing the Church can do is what it is called to do and that is be an example...some will follow it while some will not.....the Bible does not tell us that the Church will create a nice world that has it's act together before Christ returns....the Bible says the world is going to get worse and worse and it is.

But where sin abounds, grace abounds much more...He is mighty to save and we must take our positions to do our part

 

[Episkopos]

Aye! The church is not walking in it's full consecration either. Could these be related?

 

[biggandyy]

I don't see where in scripture where the "church" is supposed to address any of the concerns raised in the original post (op). Biblically, the purpose of the church is to worship God (Luke 4:8; John 4:23; Rev. 4:10), study His Word (2 Tim. 2:15; 1 Cor. 4:6), pray (Acts 2:42), love one another (John 13:35; Phil. 1:1-4), help each other (Gal. 6:2), partake of baptism and the Lord's supper (Luke 22:19-20), to learn how to live as godly people (Titus 2:11-12), and to be equipped to evangelize the world (Eph. 4:12; Matt. 28:18-20).

The greivences you lay at the feet of the church are properly laid at the feet of individual believers, not the corporate church or church invisible.

 

[Hollyrock]

Aye! The church is not walking in it's full consecration either. Could these be related?

Absolutely...I'm so glad you mentioned that

 

[Strat]

Hi Rach, I can't put it any better than you just did...we just have to DO IT because it's so easy to retreat into our own little world.

But where sin abounds, grace abounds much more...He is mighty to save and we must take our positions to do our part

Some are doing that,my "part" is to not join in with what is going on in the world,to come out from among them,one of the contradictions of the modern Church is that people are first told they are responsable for and need to repent of their own sins which they are....then after they are saved they are told they are responsable for the sins of others and that the condition of the world is their fault.The influence of the church is based on taking responsabilities that are legitimately ours and fullfilling them,not trying to releive other people of their responsabilities and accountabilityy before God....in other words we need to be better at living our own lives not living other people's lives.

 

[Jake]

I agree with the OP, as believers, we get to participate with God in setting up His Kingdom on earth by walking as Jesus walked, we are His hands and feet. There should be healings, signs and wonders following us, we are supposed to be the light in the dark world. He has called us to GO OUT and DO - as the Body, not as individuals, there is power in numbers! Jesus has already told us the works we do will be greater than what He did.

God has given each believer a spiritual gift, not for us, but for the building up of the Body, to edify, to glorify Him. The gifts are supernatural in nature. I really think we need to re-evaluate what the general population thinks the Church is and what it's purpose is on this earth, otherwise the bigger picture will continue to be out of focus.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with the OP, as believers, we get to participate with God in setting up His Kingdom on earth by walking as Jesus walked, we are His hands and feet. There should be healings, signs and wonders following us, we are supposed to be the light in the dark world. He has called us to GO OUT and DO - as the Body, not as individuals, there is power in numbers! Jesus has already told us the works we do will be greater than what He did.

God has given each believer a spiritual gift, not for us, but for the building up of the Body, to edify, to glorify Him. The gifts are supernatural in nature. I really think we need to re-evaluate what the general population thinks the Church is and what it's purpose is on this earth, otherwise the bigger picture will continue to be out of focus.

Well said Jake!!!

 

[Strat]

I agree with the OP, as believers, we get to participate with God in setting up His Kingdom on earth by walking as Jesus walked, we are His hands and feet. There should be healings, signs and wonders following us, we are supposed to be the light in the dark world. He has called us to GO OUT and DO - as the Body, not as individuals, there is power in numbers! Jesus has already told us the works we do will be greater than what He did.

God has given each believer a spiritual gift, not for us, but for the building up of the Body, to edify, to glorify Him. The gifts are supernatural in nature. I really think we need to re-evaluate what the general population thinks the Church is and what it's purpose is on this earth, otherwise the bigger picture will continue to be out of focus.

The Church has evaluated what the general population thinks the Church is and what it's purpose is....the airwaves are full of the result,the general population,if they think anything about the Church, wonder why we claim to be different and yet attempt to offer a "christian" alternative to everything they offer....the only alternative to sin is holiness,the only alternative to Hell is Heaven,the only alternative to being damned is to be saved...its as if we no longer trust in the simplicity of the gospel so we package it in the same way the world packages it's offerings.I want to hear a man of God preach the word of God minus a program,minus "special" music and all the rest and leave convicted by it,not pumped full of lies about how wonderful i am and how i am a helpless victim of Satan and his ways...i am not a victim and no man or woman will ever repent of anything they don't take responsability for.....the world has it's opinions and sadly the Church conforms itself to too many of them.

 

[Jake]

The Church has evaluated what the general population thinks the Church is and what it's purpose is....the airwaves are full of the result,the general population,if they think anything about the Church, wonder why we claim to be different and yet attempt to offer a "christian" alternative to everything they offer....the only alternative to sin is holiness,the only alternative to Hell is Heaven,the only alternative to being damned is to be saved...its as if we no longer trust in the simplicity of the gospel so we package it in the same way the world packages it's offerings.I want to hear a man of God preach the word of God minus a program,minus "special" music and all the rest and leave convicted by it,not pumped full of lies about how wonderful i am and how i am a helpless victim of Satan and his ways...i am not a victim and no man or woman will ever repent of anything they don't take responsability for.....the world has it's opinions and sadly the Church conforms itself to too many of them.

I see what you're saying and I agree with most of it. The general population has placed a label on the Church, accepted it, so why not try to live up to the world's standards. Yet this is where we, as believers, need to put a halt and believe who God says we are, do what God has told us to do - sometimes it feels like we're swimming upstream, against what the world throws at us. Yet, like the OP says, we begin our walk already in victory, God has already given believers spiritual gifts to edify the church, now is the time to use them!

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Some are doing that,my "part" is to not join in with what is going on in the world,to come out from among them,one of the contradictions of the modern Church is that people are first told they are responsable for and need to repent of their own sins which they are....then after they are saved they are told they are responsable for the sins of others and that the condition of the world is their fault.The influence of the church is based on taking responsabilities that are legitimately ours and fullfilling them,not trying to releive other people of their responsabilities and accountabilityy before God....in other words we need to be better at living our own lives not living other people's lives.

Well said!

I'm afraid Calvinism is rearing it's ugly head once again. It's not the churches job to dictate the morals of society. It's only within ourselves, that is, a believers personal relationship with God, and to help other Christians when they need it.

 

[Rach1370]

Well said!

I'm afraid Calvinism is rearing it's ugly head once again. It's not the churches job to dictate the morals of society. It's only within ourselves, that is, a believers personal relationship with God, and to help other Christians when they need it.

Hey...can I just ask how you put this together with the nation you live in today? Isn't the religious freedom we have now due in part to our Christian fathers standing up for that very right...that and freedom in many other things? Do you think that perhaps if they hadn't, we might be living in a very different world at the moment?

I don't think that the Church should really push outwards to a huge extent, but as we are still required to live in this world, and part of that is spreading the gospel to the lost, doesn't that mean that to an extent we need to take our faith different places...to work, to school, while we shop, every interaction we have with others. Shouldn't we stand up and have a say in, for example, the gay marriage debate? We can't expect thing to become more godly on their own! Left to themselves, people will always tend towards immoral things. Are we, as Christians, to be happy huddling in our safe little walls and not be concerned with the family across the street struggling to eat, or the boy your kids go to school with who always turns up bruised? What about school's that our kids go to being told more and more not to even mention God...you think that will just get better on it's own? I don't think that we should stand up and demand that the world operate by Church standards...but I can't see how we can turn our back on the world. Sure, we're not to be 'of' the world, but we're still here. And if we do nothing to help others, I just can't see how that's in keeping with Jesus' command to 'love others'...that takes a certain amount of 'stepping out', away from a purely Christian commune, to be that light trying to shine the truth of the gospel to the lost.
Just my thoughts...

 

[John Zain]

What can I say to help and convince you to use your God-given AUTHORITY?

Christians (those who have the precious Holy Spirit inside of them)
have ALL power and authority to gain victory over Satan and his demons.

All we need to do is BELIEVE this Scriptural truth ... and ACT on this truth.

To help you in your fight against Satan and his demons, it is important to realize that:

1) Satan and his demons are fearful of (and hate) the name of JESUS
... when "Jesus" is obviously referring to the Messiah-Redeemer-Savior-Son of God.
Verbally, pray "in the name of Jesus" and control demons "in the name of Jesus".

2) Satan and his demons hate it when believers talk about the BLOOD of Jesus
... when "blood" is obviously referring to that of Messiah-Redeemer-Savior-Son of God.
For example: you can clear all demons out of a room simply by "pleading the blood".
Verbally, soak and drench the whole inside of the room with Jesus' precious blood.

Then, when you combine these 2 powerful truths, you have a TON of spiritual power.
But, of course, your BELIEF-FAITH-TRUST in this authority is of utmost importance.

 

[Strat]

Hey...can I just ask how you put this together with the nation you live in today? Isn't the religious freedom we have now due in part to our Christian fathers standing up for that very right...that and freedom in many other things? Do you think that perhaps if they hadn't, we might be living in a very different world at the moment?

I don't think that the Church should really push outwards to a huge extent, but as we are still required to live in this world, and part of that is spreading the gospel to the lost, doesn't that mean that to an extent we need to take our faith different places...to work, to school, while we shop, every interaction we have with others. Shouldn't we stand up and have a say in, for example, the gay marriage debate? We can't expect thing to become more godly on their own! Left to themselves, people will always tend towards immoral things. Are we, as Christians, to be happy huddling in our safe little walls and not be concerned with the family across the street struggling to eat, or the boy your kids go to school with who always turns up bruised? What about school's that our kids go to being told more and more not to even mention God...you think that will just get better on it's own? I don't think that we should stand up and demand that the world operate by Church standards...but I can't see how we can turn our back on the world. Sure, we're not to be 'of' the world, but we're still here. And if we do nothing to help others, I just can't see how that's in keeping with Jesus' command to 'love others'...that takes a certain amount of 'stepping out', away from a purely Christian commune, to be that light trying to shine the truth of the gospel to the lost.
Just my thoughts...

What makes you think that people are not doing these things ? people being left to themselves will make the same free will choices we all make,God saves people,people don't save people and the modern Church needs to step aside and let God be God instead of constantly trying to save a world that God has already pronounced judgement on,for the world as it is there is no hope but for each individual there is hope when they accept responsability for their own sins and allow others to do the same and humble themselves before God instead of dragging out the chain of blame and the idea that the evil people do is always somebody else's fault...people are capable of evil all on their own with no assistence form anyone.

This society has made its choices and is reaping what it has sown,this is a biblical principle that cannot be done away with.

What can I say to help and convince you to use your God-given AUTHORITY?

Christians (those who have the precious Holy Spirit inside of them)
have ALL power and authority to gain victory over Satan and his demons.

All we need to do is BELIEVE this Scriptural truth ... and ACT on this truth.

To help you in your fight against Satan and his demons, it is important to realize that:

1) Satan and his demons are fearful of (and hate) the name of JESUS
... when "Jesus" is obviously referring to the Messiah-Redeemer-Savior-Son of God.
Verbally, pray "in the name of Jesus" and control demons "in the name of Jesus".

2) Satan and his demons hate it when believers talk about the BLOOD of Jesus
... when "blood" is obviously referring to that of Messiah-Redeemer-Savior-Son of God.
For example: you can clear all demons out of a room simply by "pleading the blood".
Verbally, soak and drench the whole inside of the room with Jesus' precious blood.

Then, when you combine these 2 powerful truths, you have a TON of spiritual power.
But, of course, your BELIEF-FAITH-TRUST in this authority is of utmost importance.

Can you also provide scripture that tells us we can live ofther people's lives for them,make choices for them and force them to do good ?

Consequences are the natural force God has put in place to motivate and guide people in the right direction, do good things,receive good things,do evil things and pay the penalty....we as a society and as a Church have decided that consequences must go and humanism says that people are basically good and do evil things only when acted uopn by some outside influence...which of course makes them victims.

This world's condition is directly related to it's rejection of God and his law and the attempts to do away with the consequences of that rejection,in America we say that it is perfecly just for a man to take another man's life in an act of murder and do a little time if no suitable excuse is found and then "get on" with his life...we say that it is perfectly just for an unborn child to be killed if it is in the way and afterward the people involved are seen as just victims of circumstances...we say that it is perfectly just for one man to get up and go to work to feed his family while another sits at home,drinks beer and watches TV,makes more babies with a woman he is not married to....the bill for all of this is handed to the first man who must now work harder to survie...we say this is right and just....we offer every possible excuse for every kind of evil.

We say that the responsable only exist to support the irresponsable and in the case of the Church the saved only exist to spare the unsaved the consequences God has put in place to bring them to repentence...we even get Jesus involved by asking what would he do ?...his response to a drug addict would be to give them clean needles at tax payers expense ? his response to a woman having multiple babies by different men would be to have more so their welfare check will be incresed and they can better take care of their children....his response to the drunkard...uh excuse me....."alcoholic" is for them to understand that they are a victim of this terrible disease that leaped upon them one day....what was the response Jesus gave to all....GO AND SIN NO MORE !!!!!

The modern version of that well known bible passage"for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap" has been changed to for whtavere a man sows that shall his neighbor also reap...so his neighbor had better get a second job and see what he can do to to run his neighbor's life for him so the bill will be smaller.

 

[Rach1370]

What makes you think that people are not doing these things ? people being left to themselves will make the same free will choices we all make,God saves people,people don't save people and the modern Church needs to step aside and let God be God instead of constantly trying to save a world that God has already pronounced judgement on,for the world as it is there is no hope but for each individual there is hope when they accept responsability for their own sins and allow others to do the same and humble themselves before God instead of dragging out the chain of blame and the idea that the evil people do is always somebody else's fault...people are capable of evil all on their own with no assistence form anyone.

This society has made its choices and is reaping what it has sown,this is a biblical principle that cannot be done away with.

With respect, I disagree. Paul makes it clear that while God or the Spirit does the saving, quite often He chooses to use people to do it.

14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher?...17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ. Romans 10:14,17

Jesus also clearly teaches that we are to 'outreach'...the Great Commission:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember,I am with you always,to the end of the age.” Matt 28:19-20

God may have pronounced the world as lost, be clearly He wants as many saved as possible:

9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Peter reminds us that how we live our lives outside the Church is just as important:

12 Conduct yourselves honourably among the Gentiles, so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will, by observing your good works, glorify God on the day of visitation....15 For it is God’s will that you silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 1Peter 2:12,15

Again, Jesus commands us to step out:

16 In the same way, let your light shinebefore men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven. Matt 5:16

I think it's very clear that as Christians we are not just to sit in the pews or brunch with other believers and shun everyone else. In fact, what kind of a message does that send about Jesus and His work in our lives? Nope..we're supposed to be a light for Him, reaching out and in the Spirit's power drawing others into the Church.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Hey...can I just ask how you put this together with the nation you live in today? Isn't the religious freedom we have now due in part to our Christian fathers standing up for that very right...that and freedom in many other things? Do you think that perhaps if they hadn't, we might be living in a very different world at the moment?

I don't think that the Church should really push outwards to a huge extent, but as we are still required to live in this world, and part of that is spreading the gospel to the lost, doesn't that mean that to an extent we need to take our faith different places...to work, to school, while we shop, every interaction we have with others. Shouldn't we stand up and have a say in, for example, the gay marriage debate? We can't expect thing to become more godly on their own! Left to themselves, people will always tend towards immoral things. Are we, as Christians, to be happy huddling in our safe little walls and not be concerned with the family across the street struggling to eat, or the boy your kids go to school with who always turns up bruised? What about school's that our kids go to being told more and more not to even mention God...you think that will just get better on it's own? I don't think that we should stand up and demand that the world operate by Church standards...but I can't see how we can turn our back on the world. Sure, we're not to be 'of' the world, but we're still here. And if we do nothing to help others, I just can't see how that's in keeping with Jesus' command to 'love others'...that takes a certain amount of 'stepping out', away from a purely Christian commune, to be that light trying to shine the truth of the gospel to the lost.
Just my thoughts...

The forefathers came from what they viewed as an opressive society. For centuries the Brittish government dictated religion. Not only was England notorious for this, but so was many other forms of government throughout the centuries. Many if not most of our forefathers were diests. They wanted to have the freedom of religious expression. They also wanted others to have the same.

Our forefathers were wise enough to understand. The more freedom we allow another, the more freedom we will have ourselves. If we start to dictate beliefs in one way, our own beliefs will also be dictated in another. We can see evidence of this in todays society. This is caused by people trying to interpret the Constitution in a way that wasn't originally intended. This is also on top of different religions, such as Muslims who believe in dictating religion to the public, and to a certain extent the Christian church in tradition of Calvinism.

So, all in all, I can reconcile my view with what I've read and understand about the original intent on freedom of religion. We should all be free to decide what we want to believe. We should also be free to accept that others are not going to believe like us. Although it might make us feel better because we ourselves wont be faced with so much we disagree with. If we could exercise authority to anothers lives, we will be met with more disdain than we are now. That disdain will not be because of Jesus Christ. It will be because we will become dictators. That will lead to an overthrowing, and even more rampant evilness just for spite. A wolf in a cage is still a wolf regardless how we force it to behave or which means we use to accomplish the task.


We should be content, thankfull and greatfull if we have a safe life, are well fed, and clothed. We should have compassion to help others in need. Help the hungry family, the abused child, the bullied kid at school, etc etc. That is loving your neighbor, that is being the salt of the earth. I think this is why the homosexuality issue bothers me so much. We argue and debate, and vote, and go to great lengths to stop gays, yet, child abuse runs rampant and we do nothing. Very disturbing. I'm also guilty of doing nothing for the most part.

 

[Hollyrock]

With respect, I disagree. Paul makes it clear that while God or the Spirit does the saving, quite often He chooses to use people to do it.

14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher?...17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ. Romans 10:14,17

Jesus also clearly teaches that we are to 'outreach'...the Great Commission:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember,I am with you always,to the end of the age.” Matt 28:19-20

God may have pronounced the world as lost, be clearly He wants as many saved as possible:

9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Peter reminds us that how we live our lives outside the Church is just as important:

12 Conduct yourselves honourably among the Gentiles, so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will, by observing your good works, glorify God on the day of visitation....15 For it is God’s will that you silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 1Peter 2:12,15

Again, Jesus commands us to step out:

16 In the same way, let your light shinebefore men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven. Matt 5:16

I think it's very clear that as Christians we are not just to sit in the pews or brunch with other believers and shun everyone else. In fact, what kind of a message does that send about Jesus and His work in our lives? Nope..we're supposed to be a light for Him, reaching out and in the Spirit's power drawing others into the Church.

I agree, whatever happened to going out witnessing, visiting the shut-in, visiting prisoners, welcoming new neighbors, inviting people to Church with you etc. ?

 

[mark s]

How much do you love?