The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

[farouk]

Scripture clearly defines "Israel" as the church Romans 9:6-8

But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.

cc @michaelvpardo

 

[ewq1938]

But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.

Actually there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. Jews started the church and are the original members of it. Gentiles just join that church, all being equal in Christ.

 

[farouk]

Actually there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. Jews started the church and are the original members of it. Gentiles just join that church, all being equal in Christ.

I agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.

 

[ewq1938]

I agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.

Actually there are only two types of people. Saved Christians and unsaved non-Christians.

2Co_2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

 

[Truth7t7]

But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.

cc @michaelvpardo

Galatians 3:26-29KJV
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.

In the world there are "Two" groups of people as ewq has shown, (saved/unsaved) it's that simple

 

[robert derrick]

PS: I do think the church and Israel are distinct; 1 Corinthians 10:32.

The Church and body of the God of Israel is distinct from Israel after the flesh, just as the Israel of God on earth today is distinct from any uncircumcised nation and people on earth.

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh.

At this time on earth, the only brethren, children, and nation of the God of Israel is His church in alive and remaining in physical bodies.

 

[robert derrick]

Scripture clearly defines "Israel" as the church Romans 9:6-8

All Israel will be saved, when the last name is saved and added to the Lambs book of life

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.

Sometimes just one Scripture proves the teaching, and in this case there is just one word of one Scripture:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Who is them?

It is the same them that His resurrected saints will rule over with Him:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[robert derrick]

1. Deuteronomy 32:15
   “But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; You grew fat, you grew thick, You are obese! Then he forsook God who made him, And scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
   
   
2. Deuteronomy 33:5
   And He was King in Jeshurun, When the leaders of the people were gathered, All the tribes of Israel together.
   
   
3. Deuteronomy 33:26
   “There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to help you, And in His excellency on the clouds.
   
   
4. Isaiah 44:2
   Thus says the Lord who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you: ‘Fear not, O Jacob My servant; And you, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

I came across a Jewish book about Jeshurun once, but didn't read it (they're pretty much clueless about prophetic fulfillment. ) And I asked a pastor once, but he hadn't even heard of the name. The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.

The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.

But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

This must be Israel of the OT, which can also apply to Christians today, who turn back from the Lord God of Israel:

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

In Deut 33, Jeshurun is the tens thousands of God's saints returning to earth with Him after the resurrection, when the Lord will ride upon the heaven and His excellency will be seen in the sky, which is the prophecy of Enoch confirmed in Jude.

I have always simply considered it to be an endearing Hebrew name for God's people Israel.

A word search shows it means 'upright one'. ANd so, I would say Jeshurun is all of upright Israel fo old and new covenants resurrected unto Christ to meet Him in the air of this earth.

 

[robert derrick]

@Truth7t7

Did you miss this post, Truth?
Any opinion?

It is clear that during all generations, between Jesus' resurrection and the resurrection of His church, there is only one people of God and children of Abraham with the promise of Israel: Christians, which is the new name prophesied for the Lord's people, and no more called Jews:

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

But it is also clear from the OT prophesies, that He will reign on earth, with Israel after the flesh serving Him as priests for all nations on earth.

In Ezekiel they will only be them circumcised both in flesh as were the fathers, and in Spirit with the circumcision of Christ.

These will be saved physical bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

However, I do not believe they are the unbelieving and blind Israel after the flesh at His coming, since we walk by faith and not by sight.

I believe like the rebellious generation of the wilderness, they will die off at His coming, and their offspring will have opportunity to convert to believe and obey Him with the heart, just like any other saint of today.

So, for these present generations, there is only one Israel of the God of Israel, but during the generations following His return to earth, there will be two Israels of God: Spiritual Israel in resurrected bodies reigning on earth, and saved Israel in natural bodies serving on earth.

 

[GEN2REV]

So, for these present generations, there is only one Israel of the God of Israel, but during the generations following His return to earth, there will be two Israels of God: Spiritual Israel in resurrected bodies reigning on earth, and saved Israel in natural bodies serving on earth.

The Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.

All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.

 

[robert derrick]

The Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.

All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.

All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.

How so? Showing how Scripture doesn't allow for it would help.

And what is the only 'possibility' you are talking about, that does not allow for the one I offer?

 

[michaelvpardo]

The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.

But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

This must be Israel of the OT, which can also apply to Christians today, who turn back from the Lord God of Israel:

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

In Deut 33, Jeshurun is the tens thousands of God's saints returning to earth with Him after the resurrection, when the Lord will ride upon the heaven and His excellency will be seen in the sky, which is the prophecy of Enoch confirmed in Jude.

I have always simply considered it to be an endearing Hebrew name for God's people Israel.

A word search shows it means 'upright one'. ANd so, I would say Jeshurun is all of upright Israel fo old and new covenants resurrected unto Christ to meet Him in the air of this earth.

This is along my line of reasoning, and the passage in Isaiah first refers to Israel as His Chosen, then again to Jeshurun as His chosen. The only verse that's problematic is the verse that you highlighted. I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.

The prophets frequently use the name "Jacob" in referring to Israel but in striving with God, and switch to using "Israel" in passages about redemption and restoration. The name "Jeshurun " isn't used enough for me to see clear distinction and the Lord hasn't taught me much about it. The name does stand out though as distinctive and I have no problem in seeing it as representative of the church.

I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.

 

[robert derrick]

This is along my line of reasoning, and the passage in Isaiah first refers to Israel as His Chosen, then again to Jeshurun as His chosen. The only verse that's problematic is the verse that you highlighted. I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.

The prophets frequently use the name "Jacob" in referring to Israel but in striving with God, and switch to using "Israel" in passages about redemption and restoration. The name "Jeshurun " isn't used enough for me to see clear distinction and the Lord hasn't taught me much about it. The name does stand out though as distinctive and I have no problem in seeing it as representative of the church.

I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.

I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.

Certainly not. And since Scripture speaks of Jeshurun as growing fat and proud, then it must also apply to all saints first on earth, and then only those enduring to the end in the resurrection.

I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.

And our trust in God and faith in Scripture, is that God didn't allow such writings to be included as Scripture from Himself, because He didn't give them to His prophets and apostles.

 

[Truth7t7]

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.

Sometimes just one Scripture proves the teaching, and in this case there is just one word of one Scripture:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Who is them?

It is the same them that His resurrected saints will rule over with Him:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Jesus "Destroys" the wicked with a rod of iron at his return, he dosent sit on a throne, in a man made fabricated Millennium on this Earth as suggested

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.

All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.

I Agree, Its Millennialism's propaganda, where ethnic Jews will be ruling the earth from Jerusalem in a rebuilt temple, it's 100% "Zionist" deception in propaganda

Scripture teaches Jesus Christ returns in the resurrection of all and final judgement (The End) it's that simple

 

[GEN2REV]

All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.

... what is the only 'possibility' you are talking about, that does not allow for the one I offer? ... Showing how Scripture doesn't allow for it would help.

The possibility I'm referring to concerns this:

during the generations following His return to earth, there will be two Israels of God: Spiritual Israel in resurrected bodies reigning on earth, and saved Israel in natural bodies serving on earth.

Here are the scriptures I referred to that all coincide about Jesus' return:
Matthew 24:29-31
Isaiah 13:9-11
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:23-26
2 Peter 3:10-11

They do not allow for the possibility that there will be anybody on the physical earth, much less two divisions of Israel.

 

[Truth7t7]

The possibility I'm referring to concerns this:

Here are the scriptures I referred to that all coincide about Jesus' return:
Matthew 24:29-31
Isaiah 13:9-11
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:23-26
2 Peter 3:10-11

They do not allow for the possibility that there will be anybody on the physical earth, much less two divisions of Israel.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.

Certainly not. And since Scripture speaks of Jeshurun as growing fat and proud, then it must also apply to all saints first on earth, and then only those enduring to the end in the resurrection.

I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.

And our trust in God and faith in Scripture, is that God didn't allow such writings to be included as Scripture from Himself, because He didn't give them to His prophets and apostles.

Actually, some of the new testament scribes quoted from apocryphal works, but those works themselves are not in the canon. Even the gospels quote at least one prophecy that isn't found in the books of the Old Testament.

 

[ewq1938]

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.

Sometimes just one Scripture proves the teaching, and in this case there is just one word of one Scripture:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Who is them?

It is the same them that His resurrected saints will rule over with Him:

Yes and the verb "rule" is written in the future tense meaning the rule over the nations takes place after Armageddon. It's the only verb in that verse that is in the future tense. The rest are present tense.