farouk
Well-Known Member
But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.Scripture clearly defines "Israel" as the church Romans 9:6-8
cc @michaelvpardo
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.Scripture clearly defines "Israel" as the church Romans 9:6-8
But Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.
I agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.Actually there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. Jews started the church and are the original members of it. Gentiles just join that church, all being equal in Christ.
I agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.
Galatians 3:26-29KJVBut Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 clearly shows that Jews, Gentiles and the church of God are distinct.
cc @michaelvpardo
In the world there are "Two" groups of people as ewq has shown, (saved/unsaved) it's that simpleI agree; but in the world there are three groups of ppl, as 1 Cor. 10.32 shows.
The Church and body of the God of Israel is distinct from Israel after the flesh, just as the Israel of God on earth today is distinct from any uncircumcised nation and people on earth.PS: I do think the church and Israel are distinct; 1 Corinthians 10:32.
There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.Scripture clearly defines "Israel" as the church Romans 9:6-8
All Israel will be saved, when the last name is saved and added to the Lambs book of life
There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.I came across a Jewish book about Jeshurun once, but didn't read it (they're pretty much clueless about prophetic fulfillment. ) And I asked a pastor once, but he hadn't even heard of the name. The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.
- Deuteronomy 32:15
“But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; You grew fat, you grew thick, You are obese! Then he forsook God who made him, And scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
- Deuteronomy 33:5
And He was King in Jeshurun, When the leaders of the people were gathered, All the tribes of Israel together.
- Deuteronomy 33:26
“There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to help you, And in His excellency on the clouds.
- Isaiah 44:2
Thus says the Lord who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you: ‘Fear not, O Jacob My servant; And you, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.
The Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.So, for these present generations, there is only one Israel of the God of Israel, but during the generations following His return to earth, there will be two Israels of God: Spiritual Israel in resurrected bodies reigning on earth, and saved Israel in natural bodies serving on earth.
All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.The Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.
All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.
This is along my line of reasoning, and the passage in Isaiah first refers to Israel as His Chosen, then again to Jeshurun as His chosen. The only verse that's problematic is the verse that you highlighted. I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.The passages above were straight out of a "Bible gateway" search and probably the only usages in scripture, but seem to refer to glorified Israel.
But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
This must be Israel of the OT, which can also apply to Christians today, who turn back from the Lord God of Israel:
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
In Deut 33, Jeshurun is the tens thousands of God's saints returning to earth with Him after the resurrection, when the Lord will ride upon the heaven and His excellency will be seen in the sky, which is the prophecy of Enoch confirmed in Jude.
I have always simply considered it to be an endearing Hebrew name for God's people Israel.
A word search shows it means 'upright one'. ANd so, I would say Jeshurun is all of upright Israel fo old and new covenants resurrected unto Christ to meet Him in the air of this earth.
I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.This is along my line of reasoning, and the passage in Isaiah first refers to Israel as His Chosen, then again to Jeshurun as His chosen. The only verse that's problematic is the verse that you highlighted. I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.
The prophets frequently use the name "Jacob" in referring to Israel but in striving with God, and switch to using "Israel" in passages about redemption and restoration. The name "Jeshurun " isn't used enough for me to see clear distinction and the Lord hasn't taught me much about it. The name does stand out though as distinctive and I have no problem in seeing it as representative of the church.
I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.
Jesus "Destroys" the wicked with a rod of iron at his return, he dosent sit on a throne, in a man made fabricated Millennium on this Earth as suggestedThere won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.
Sometimes just one Scripture proves the teaching, and in this case there is just one word of one Scripture:
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who is them?
It is the same them that His resurrected saints will rule over with Him:
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
I Agree, Its Millennialism's propaganda, where ethnic Jews will be ruling the earth from Jerusalem in a rebuilt temple, it's 100% "Zionist" deception in propagandaThe Bible just doesn't support that, Rob.
All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.
GEN2REV said:All of the prophecies, from different authors, that coincide about Jesus' return, tell it in a way that doesn't allow for that possibility.
The possibility I'm referring to concerns this:robert derrick said:... what is the only 'possibility' you are talking about, that does not allow for the one I offer? ... Showing how Scripture doesn't allow for it would help.
Here are the scriptures I referred to that all coincide about Jesus' return:during the generations following His return to earth, there will be two Israels of God: Spiritual Israel in resurrected bodies reigning on earth, and saved Israel in natural bodies serving on earth.
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The TribulationThe possibility I'm referring to concerns this:
Here are the scriptures I referred to that all coincide about Jesus' return:
Matthew 24:29-31
Isaiah 13:9-11
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:23-26
2 Peter 3:10-11
They do not allow for the possibility that there will be anybody on the physical earth, much less two divisions of Israel.
Actually, some of the new testament scribes quoted from apocryphal works, but those works themselves are not in the canon. Even the gospels quote at least one prophecy that isn't found in the books of the Old Testament.I don't see the glorified church as falling away, but we do have a falling away or apostasy described before Christ's return and the revealing of the Son of perdition.
Certainly not. And since Scripture speaks of Jeshurun as growing fat and proud, then it must also apply to all saints first on earth, and then only those enduring to the end in the resurrection.
I can't help but wonder if the name was used in more writings that were rejected as Canon because of the negative connotations.
And our trust in God and faith in Scripture, is that God didn't allow such writings to be included as Scripture from Himself, because He didn't give them to His prophets and apostles.
There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire.
Sometimes just one Scripture proves the teaching, and in this case there is just one word of one Scripture:
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who is them?
It is the same them that His resurrected saints will rule over with Him: