The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks.
Yes,,,I was thinking of Thessalonians.

I think some folk don't read THE WHOLE bible, but just the parts they like.

SO true . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If only the papacy was as accommodating toward the millions of Christians they turned over to the State for execution during the Dark Ages for holding "opinions" not taught by the papacy, right?

I see you never tire of spewing falsehoods.
I am now openly challenging you to substantiate "millions", Einstein.

I have read ridiculous statistics anywhere from 10 million to 150 million from ignorant anti-Catholics like yourself. the funny thing is - there weren't even "hundreds of millions" of people in ALL of Europe during this period.

This has been debunked by just about every credible historian . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

On the other hand the Papacy has been around for about 1500 years. It displays the characteristics of the Antichrist, but never has any pope had total and absolute control over all the inhabitants of the earth.

Complete unsubstantiated nonsense.

Ireneaus, writing in the latter part of the 2nd century llists ALL of the Popes from his time going all the way back to Peter in his treatise Against Heresies.

Do your homework . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

I see you never tire of spewing falsehoods.
I am now openly challenging you to substantiate "millions", Einstein.

I have read ridiculous statistics anywhere from 10 million to 150 million from ignorant anti-Catholics like yourself. the funny thing is - there weren't even "hundreds of millions" of people in ALL of Europe during this period.

This has been debunked by just about every credible historian . . .

You know, with all that money the papal Antichrist in Rome shells out in child predatory priest hush money and legal fees, you'd think the papal Antichrist would try to recoup its losses (since nobody buys your worthless "indulgence" certificates anymore thanks to the Protestant Reformation exposing the papacy's Medieval practice of selling forgiveness for donations as fraudulent, blasphemous, and satanic) by Defamation suits against us "heretics" who defame the papacy with out "lies", right?

Where's the lawsuits, Dead Bread?
Where's the subpoenas, Dead Bread?
Where's the depositions, Dead Bread?

Oh...there are none...because the papacy is guilty, you silly papist protector of papist rapist priests!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Umm, the Bereans when confronted by those who should have known (i.e. the Apostles) still checked the Old Testament to see if these things were so.

Acts 17:11 (KJV) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

...that is how we are to treat all teachings

They were looking for CHRIST in the OT Scriptures because they Apostles were telling them that the prophecies had been fulfilled and that He had come. Jesus explained to the 2 men on the Road to Emmaus the Scriptures that pointed to HIM (Luke 24:27).

Regarding the Bereans - it says absolutely NOTHING about finding ALL Christian teachings in the OT. They were teachings about CHRIST. The teachings of Christianity aren't encompassed in the OT.

 

[Phoneman777]

SO true . . .

Why worry about reading the Bible selectively when you believe your rapist papist pope has the power "to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ", according to Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dict.?

Just re-write it and keep going, right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why worry about reading the Bible selectively when you believe your rapist papist pope has the power "to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ", according to Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dict.?

You know, with all that money the papal Antichrist in Rome shells out in child predatory priest hush money and legal fees, you'd think the papal Antichrist would try to recoup its losses (since nobody buys your worthless "indulgence" certificates anymore thanks to the Protestant Reformation exposing the papacy's Medieval practice of selling forgiveness for donations as fraudulent) by Defamation suits against us "heretics" who defame the papacy with out "lies", right?

Where's the lawsuits, Dead Bread?
Where's the subpoenas, Dead Bread?
Where's the depositions, Dead Bread?

Oh...there are none...because the papacy is guilty, you silly papist protector of papist rapist priests!

You have transcended from total ignorance to utter stupidity with these comments.
The Church never sold Indulgences. It was an abuse - and it is well-documented that this was not an edict from the Church.

And, as for your repeated claims of molestation, do I need to keep reminding you of the filth going oon in your OWN SDA back yard??

https://dumaslawgroup.com/finding-justice-for-victims-of-sexual-abuse-in-the-seventh-day-adventist-church/
Like other religious organizations and institutions of trust, the Seventh-day Adventist Church has a long and disappointing history of child sex abuse . . .
https://atoday.org/abuse-is-a-challenge-for-the-adventist-church-new-campaign-is-launched-to-counter-it/
Although the number of cases has not reached the crisis level that it has in some denominations, the Seventh-day Adventist Church does face an incidence of abuse suffered by its children and teens sufficient to result in the launch of a new, world-wide campaign . . .

https://www.crewjanci.com/sda-abuse/
The Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church . . . SDA pastors, elders, teachers, and Pathfinder leaders have taken advantage of children within the Church’s care, violating their positions of trust and authority in order to exploit vulnerable parishioners who look to the Church for protection and support.

Your hypocrisy is pathetic.
I'm sure your Popess Ellen G. White is spinning in her grave . . .

 

[quietthinker]

Sunday is indeed the Lord's Day, but since SDAs were compelled to reject it in favor of the 7th day Sabbath, they created their own fantasy about the Papacy as Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast as Sunday worship. That truly messed up the proper interpretation of Bible prophecy.

You err greatly here Enoch. The idea that Sunday is the Lords day because of the resurrection is not underpinned by the scripture. The Lords day is clearly defined by Jesus with the confrontation in the grain fields with the Pharisees. Making Sunday the Lords day is a convenient cobbling by those who are opposed to the description the fourth commandment gives for keeping the seventh day holy.

The movement to make it appear that Sunday is the seventh day is evidenced by the change in many modern calendars. Check it out! Sunday has been designated the seventh day and Monday the first. Were the people consulted on this?? of course not, it is being done by stealth.....and why would that be do you think if not to prepare the populations? As Phoneman said in post #29, it will be the pivotal issue in the near future.

 

[Phoneman777]

You have transcended from total ignorance to utter stupidity with these comments. The Church never sold Indulgences. It was an abuse - and it is well-documented that this was not an edict from the Church.

Don't be daft. The pope himself commissioned the sale of indulgences for the replenishing of church coffers. The Basillica of St. Peter was built out of the sale of indulgences, Dead Bread. A defense of catholicism based on denial of well established church history is no defense at all - it's stupidity.

And, as for your repeated claims of molestation, do I need to keep reminding you of the filth going oon in your OWN SDA back yard??

Dead Bread, how many times do I have to tell you that there's a diff between church leadership that opposes the rare cases of leadership abuses of children...and the papacy which systematically and institutionally enables, protects, rewards, and covers up its global epidemic of child rape, you silly papist protector of rapist papist priests.

Although the number of cases has not reached the crisis level that it has in some denominations

"Some denominations"??? You mean the global network of catholic churches which abuse children worldwide as a form of satanic "sacrifice" to the papal god Lucifer? Yes, I agree that if child rape were an Olympic event, the papacy would be up on the platform with the Gold, Silver, and Bronze while the rest of us comparatively wouldn't even qualify for the event.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sunday is indeed the Lord's Day, but since SDAs were compelled to reject it in favor of the 7th day Sabbath, they created their own fantasy about the Papacy as Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast as Sunday worship. That truly messed up the proper interpretation of Bible prophecy.

Sunday is NOT the Lord's day - not a shred of Scripture to support that. Here's one which proves which day belongs to the Lord:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY..." Isaiah 58:13​

John was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's day, which was the seventh day Sabbath, not the false sabbath Sunday, which the Fourth commandment says is a WORKDAY:

"Six days (our Sunday through Friday) thou shalt do all thy labor..." Exodus 20:9 KJV​

What's a messed up interpretation of the Bible is claiming there's a 2,000+ year gap in a prophecy which specifically says is a set duration of time, 70 Weeks which is interpreted to be 490 years.

 

[prism]

They were looking for CHRIST in the OT Scriptures because they Apostles were telling them that the prophecies had been fulfilled and that He had come. Jesus explained to the 2 men on the Road to Emmaus the Scriptures that pointed to HIM (Luke 24:27).

Regarding the Bereans - it says absolutely NOTHING about finding ALL Christian teachings in the OT. They were teachings about CHRIST. The teachings of Christianity aren't encompassed in the OT.

I wasn't even addressing you, but true to form you won't miss an opportunity to get your RCC propaganda disseminated.
Do you think if Jesus hadn't matched the Scriptures in the OT, concerning Him, the Apostles would have believed in Him?

 

[Enoch111]

The idea that Sunday is the Lords day because of the resurrection is not underpinned by the scripture.

It is very well supported by Scripture both in the OT and the NT. The 7th day sabbath is never called the Lord's Day. The resurrection of Christ was the most stupendous event in human history. That is why the Lord dedicated the first day of the week for Christian worship, rest, and good works. And we see this in Scripture associated with the Lord's Supper, also called "the Breaking of Bread".

Furthermore the 7th day sabbath was clearly given to Israel under the Old Covenant, whereas the Lord's Day is under the New Covenant. It is quite significant that the apostle John says that "I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's Day.

JAMIESON FAUSSET AND BROWN COMMENTARY (Rev 1:10)
...on the Lord's day—Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day." But the consecration of the day to worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper, is implied in Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; compare Joh 20:19-26. The name corresponds to "the Lord's Supper," 1Co 11:20. Ignatius seems to allude to "the Lord's day" [Epistle to the Magnesians, 9], and Irenæus [Quæst ad Orthod., 115] (in Justin Martyr).

Justin Martyr [Apology, 2.98 2nd century], &c., "On Sunday we all hold our joint meeting; for the first day is that on which God, having removed darkness and chaos, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. On the day before Saturday they crucified Him; and on the day after Saturday, which is Sunday, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught these things."

To the Lord's day Pliny [1st century] doubtless refers [Epistles, Book X., p. 97], "The Christians on a fixed day before dawn meet and sing a hymn to Christ as God," &c. Tertullian [The Chaplet, 3], "On the Lord's day we deem it wrong to fast." Melito, bishop of Sardis (second century), wrote a book on the Lord's day [Eusebius 4.26]. Also, Dionysius of Corinth, in Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 4.23,8]. Clement of Alexandria [Miscellanies, 5. and 7.12]; Origen [Against Celsus, 8. 22].

The theory that the day of Christ's second coming is meant, is untenable. "The day of the Lord" is different in the Greek from "the Lord's (an adjective) day," which latter in the ancient Church always designates our Sunday, though it is not impossible that the two shall coincide (at least in some parts of the earth), whence a tradition is mentioned in Jerome [Commentary on Matthew, 25], that the Lord's coming was expected especially on the Paschal Lord's day. The visions of the Apocalypse, the seals, trumpets, and vials, &c., are grouped in sevens, and naturally begin on the first day of the seven, the birthday of the Church, whose future they set forth [Wordsworth].

 

[Enoch111]

Complete unsubstantiated nonsense.

' FROM the Christianity of the Apostles and Martyrs we proceed to the Christianity of the Patriarchs and Emperors. The third period of the history of the Church, which forms the subject of this volume, extends from the emperor Constantine to the pope Gregory I.; from the beginning of the fourth century to the close of the sixth... Especially on the point of the external Catholic unity his [Constantine's] monarchical politics accorded with the hierarchical episcopacy of the church. Hence from the year 313 he placed himself in close connection with the bishops, made peace and harmony his first object in the Donatist and Arian controversies and applied the predicate "catholic" to the church in all official documents. And as his predecessors were supreme pontiffs of the heathen religion of the empire, so he desired to be looked upon as a sort of bishop, as universal bishop of the external affairs of the church...'

History of the Christian Church by Philip Schaff.

 

[quietthinker]

It is very well supported by Scripture both in the OT and the NT. The 7th day sabbath is never called the Lord's Day. The resurrection of Christ was the most stupendous event in human history. That is why the Lord dedicated the first day of the week for Christian worship, rest, and good works. And we see this in Scripture associated with the Lord's Supper, also called "the Breaking of Bread".

Furthermore the 7th day sabbath was clearly given to Israel under the Old Covenant, whereas the Lord's Day is under the New Covenant. It is quite significant that the apostle John says that "I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's Day.

JAMIESON FAUSSET AND BROWN COMMENTARY (Rev 1:10)
...on the Lord's day—Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day." But the consecration of the day to worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper, is implied in Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; compare Joh 20:19-26. The name corresponds to "the Lord's Supper," 1Co 11:20. Ignatius seems to allude to "the Lord's day" [Epistle to the Magnesians, 9], and Irenæus [Quæst ad Orthod., 115] (in Justin Martyr).

Justin Martyr [Apology, 2.98 2nd century], &c., "On Sunday we all hold our joint meeting; for the first day is that on which God, having removed darkness and chaos, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. On the day before Saturday they crucified Him; and on the day after Saturday, which is Sunday, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught these things."

To the Lord's day Pliny [1st century] doubtless refers [Epistles, Book X., p. 97], "The Christians on a fixed day before dawn meet and sing a hymn to Christ as God," &c. Tertullian [The Chaplet, 3], "On the Lord's day we deem it wrong to fast." Melito, bishop of Sardis (second century), wrote a book on the Lord's day [Eusebius 4.26]. Also, Dionysius of Corinth, in Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 4.23,8]. Clement of Alexandria [Miscellanies, 5. and 7.12]; Origen [Against Celsus, 8. 22].

The theory that the day of Christ's second coming is meant, is untenable. "The day of the Lord" is different in the Greek from "the Lord's (an adjective) day," which latter in the ancient Church always designates our Sunday, though it is not impossible that the two shall coincide (at least in some parts of the earth), whence a tradition is mentioned in Jerome [Commentary on Matthew, 25], that the Lord's coming was expected especially on the Paschal Lord's day. The visions of the Apocalypse, the seals, trumpets, and vials, &c., are grouped in sevens, and naturally begin on the first day of the seven, the birthday of the Church, whose future they set forth [Wordsworth].

You shoot yourself in the foot here Enoch. After saying 'It is very well supported by Scripture both in the OT and the NT.' you then cite other sources and the scriptures that are cited are not relevant. Calling the first day of the week the Lords Day is a deliberate misappropriation of the term no matter how many scriptural gymnastics are done using the removal of their context.

The basis of Sunday worship is none other than homage to the sun god. It is attempting to nullify the fourth commandment which identifies the creator. It is attempting to remove the glory due to God because of who he is ie, Creator.

The fourth commandment is his seal with its embodiment in the middle of the Commandments. If you don't think so then tell me how else one would identify the author of the ten commandments?

The seventh day Sabbath is no more Israel old covenant than is marriage or the the commandment to not covet or murder or steal etc.

 

[brakelite]

All Christians agree that it's important to honor God in the Sabbath and have a day of rest.

Originally this was done on what we now call Saturday.

And why was this do you suppose? Do you think it was because it had something to do with God using His sovereign authority and direction in stipulating not just that specific day, but blessing the day itself and sanctifying it for holy use?

After Christ's resurrection was on Sunday, culturally majority of Christian moved their day of honoring God and rest (aka their Sabbath day) to Sunday,

So if God's people bowed to God's authority in honouring the true Sabbath on the 7th day, what authority do you suppose was being honoured when for that "cultural majority'', the true Sabbath was abandoned and the first day came into vogue?

The Christian denomination, Seventh Day Adventists, have a tenet of their beliefs that this day should still correlate to Saturday.

So when comparing SDAs with other denominations, which group is honouring God's authority and which is honouring another?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And why was this do you suppose? Do you think it was because it had something to do with God using His sovereign authority and direction in stipulating not just that specific day, but blessing the day itself and sanctifying it for holy use?


So if God's people bowed to God's authority in honouring the true Sabbath on the 7th day, what authority do you suppose was being honoured when for that "cultural majority'', the true Sabbath was abandoned and the first day came into vogue?


So when comparing SDAs with other denominations, which group is honouring God's authority and which is honouring another?

Honestly: I do admire SDA's stressing on having a day of rest and honoring the Lord. But the stressing that is must be Saturday, rubs me the wrong way and seems very legalistic. For me, the important thing is having that day of rest and honoring the Lord. And heck, if life's schedule is dictates that the only day I can do that is a Thursday, then I shall worship the Lord and rest on Thursday!

For me, the important thing is the day of rest and honoring the Lord. Not what the calendar says.

 

[brakelite]

That doesn't make any sense. I've never met a Christian who was actually sola scriptura.

And there is the rub. A misunderstanding of what 'sola scriptura' actually means and that misunderstanding used by such BoL to support his church's traditions which deny the genuine meaning of sola scriptura. Sola scriptura doesn't mean that only scripture is used for teaching, exhortation, encouragement, etc. What it means, even in reform theology I think, is that it is the final arbiter of truth. Not the only source of truth, but the measure, the final authority as to what is true. The Catholic church by its own authority claims the right to decide what scripture means and demand others accede to her teachings. It is evident that in many instances the RCC has superimposed its own variables to circumvent, and outright deny the authority of scripture, and the OP illustrated this fact through Catholic writings regarding the Sunday issue. Sunday is a tradition originally enforced by civil legislation that replaced the true Sabbath without any "Thus saith the Lord" in support. It was verily a "thus saith the church" that established Sunday in the psyche and practice of the 3rd century church "majority culture".

Furthermore the 7th day sabbath was clearly given to Israel under the Old Covenant

No, it was given to Adam and Eve at creation. The commandment given later was a reminder. "Remember the Sabbath etc...to keep it holy...". The Sabbath did not become holy at Sinai...it was always so, Israel, and all God's people everywhere, are asked through the authority of scripture to remember that and keep it that way.

It is very well supported by Scripture both in the OT and the NT. The 7th day sabbath is never called the Lord's Day.

What is so difficult in understanding the expression "My holy day"..."Lord of the Sabbath"...etc etc?

 

[brakelite]

Honestly: I do admire SDA's stressing on having a day of rest and honoring the Lord. But the stressing that is must be Saturday, rubs me the wrong way and seems very legalistic. For me, the important thing is having that day of rest and honoring the Lord. And heck, if life's schedule is dictates that the only day I can do that is a Thursday, then I shall worship the Lord and rest on Thursday!

For me, the important thing is the day of rest and honoring the Lord. Not what the calendar says.

It isn't about what the calendar says...ask yourself, 'what day did God sanctify and make holy at creation, and confirmed at Sinai? Has God changed that, or is the 'cultural majority' (your words) the authority now for Christian faith and practice?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It isn't about what the calendar says...ask yourself, 'what day did God sanctify and make holy at creation, and confirmed at Sinai? Has God changed that, or is the 'cultural majority' (your words) the authority now for Christian faith and practice?

Again, while I respect your beliefs, overly stressing "the day of rest MUST be Saturday!" strikes me as legalistic. For me, the important thing is having the day of rest and honoring the Lord, nevermind what the calendar says.

 

[brakelite]

For me, the important thing is the day of rest and honoring the Lord.

Are you really honouring the Lord by denying His authority in favour of another day authorised only by man with no scriptural support?