The communication disconnect

[humbleseeker]

Typical exchange

Non-believer enters discussion with believer over random topic

At some point religion comes up

Believer takes Christian perspective

Non-believer takes secular perspective

Non-believer challenges … ancient myths/fairy tales, age of universe, big bang, carbon dating, existence of evil, lack of archeological proof, current suffering, wars/deaths/crusades, etc…

Believer counters with Christian explanations according to Jesus and bible.

Non-believer becomes increasingly insulting and hateful

Believer says he will pray for non-believer to receive the truth and be saved

Non-believer responds with “you’re some kind of nut, you are talking insane”

What is the disconnect? Why is the non-believer so judgmental and insulting?

· Non-believer is handicapped because he lacks understanding via the Holy Spirit so it’s not a level playing field.

· Christian (inspired by the Holy Spirit) responds to insults and attacks according to Jesus and the bible.

Human interactions are often compromised by lack of empathy for the unknown. Examples;

1. Rich are judgmental of the poor without ever being poor.

2. Non-addicts are judgmental of addicts without ever experiencing addiction.

3. 1st world citizens are judgmental of 3rd world without ever experiencing 3rd world poverty.

4. Racists are judgmental of other races without ever considering they themselves could have been born into the exact same circumstances and race being hated by nothing other than blind chance.

5. And yes, non-believers are judgmental of believers while lacking the insight from the Holy Spirit. “Judge not, lest you be judged “, Matthew 7:1

6. Many others

 

[Episkopos]

I think it's wiser to engage the non-believer on his own terms. At least usually. (there are times when a more direct approach is proper)

Of course...unless a person can see that you are living a life in the supernatural realm...with evidence to that effect...there is really no point in speaking religiously to another. Our witness should be seen in action.

A believer is supposed to know more about human nature and himself than non-believers. So that is a good place to start. Everybody is interested in the humanity of life.

So a Christian should know about the eternal life AND the temporal life. They are 2 kinds of bait to catch men into the kingdom with.

 

[Justadude]

From my experiences, the disconnect stems from the differences in what each party values. You stated, "Believer counters with Christian explanations according to Jesus and bible", thereby indicating that the believer values the Bible. But a non-Christian likely doesn't value the Bible, or at the very least doesn't value it as much, or in the same way, as the believer. It's like if a Muslim quoted the Quran to a Christian. Is the Christian likely to find the Quran persuasive? Probably not, because it's not something he values.

As long as people keep appealing to resources that the other party doesn't value, the disconnect will persist.

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess Paul was pretty clear there; not that believers pay any attn to Scripture anyway

 

[humbleseeker]

From my experiences, the disconnect stems from the differences in what each party values. You stated, "Believer counters with Christian explanations according to Jesus and bible", thereby indicating that the believer values the Bible. But a non-Christian likely doesn't value the Bible, or at the very least doesn't value it as much, or in the same way, as the believer. It's like if a Muslim quoted the Quran to a Christian. Is the Christian likely to find the Quran persuasive? Probably not, because it's not something he values.

As long as people keep appealing to resources that the other party doesn't value, the disconnect will persist.

Yes this is my point - sort of - but in the case of the non-believer he doesn't value the believers' perspective because he has no awareness of what the Holy Spirit offers. He can only get this wisdom by accepting the Holy Spirit, then he will know the truth. And then he will recognize the disconnect he has with other NB's.

1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 132 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Both believers and non-believers are likely to become hateful and insulting when they encounter a belief/position they disagree with.

That's human nature. We can strive to overcome it (empowered by God), but it is a constant battle, including for believers.

 

[Justadude]

Yes this is my point - sort of - but in the case of the non-believer he doesn't value the believers' perspective because he has no awareness of what the Holy Spirit offers. He can only get this wisdom by accepting the Holy Spirit, then he will know the truth. And then he will recognize the disconnect he has with other NB's.

I realize that's what you believe, but I hope you also appreciate how to someone outside of your faith it comes across as a little circular and illogical. Something like, once you believe then the belief will become truth for you.

Getting back to looking at this from a different perspective, it's like if a Hindu told you "the reality of Brahma will become evident to you once you open your eyes and mind to the reality of his creation". I'm pretty sure you'd quickly spot the flaw in that reasoning, so I hope you're able to see the same flaw in your own.

 

[Justadude]

Both believers and non-believers are likely to become hateful and insulting when they encounter a belief/position they disagree with.

I hope not! After all, the world is made up of people from all sorts of beliefs and faiths. If everyone was hateful to everyone else who believed differently, things would be terrible, all the time.

I think it's entirely possible to "agree to disagree" on matters of faith and still remain civil. Most of my friends and family are Christians and I'm never hateful or insulting to them when they bring up their faith, nor are they nasty to me if me not being Christian comes up.

That's human nature. We can strive to overcome it (empowered by God), but it is a constant battle, including for believers.

I guess I just don't understand why you think that must be. From my experiences with people from different worldviews, the norm is more like what I described above (people are typically respectful and polite).

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I hope not! After all, the world is made up of people from all sorts of beliefs and faiths. If everyone was hateful to everyone else who believed differently, things would be terrible, all the time.

I think it's entirely possible to "agree to disagree" on matters of faith and still remain civil. Most of my friends and family are Christians and I'm never hateful or insulting to them when they bring up their faith, nor are they nasty to me if me not being Christian comes up.


I guess I just don't understand why you think that must be. From my experiences with people from different worldviews, the norm is more like what I described above (people are typically respectful and polite).

I totally believe that it's possible to agree disagreeably. And that doing such is important.
I'm just also aware that the natural man inclination to argue and bicker is also real and most people struggle with it.

 

[Justadude]

I totally believe that it's possible to agree disagreeably. And that doing such is important.

I think it's vital. After all, if we can only manage to be civil to people who share our beliefs, that means we can't be civil to the majority of people we'll meet! What kind of life would that be, going around being rude to most people most days?

I'm just also aware that the natural man inclination to argue and bicker is also real and most people struggle with it.

Oh for sure. But I don't see arguing and bickering as necessarily the same as being nasty and rude. In my line of work we debate each other all the time, but it rarely gets nasty. And when it does, the person being nasty will usually take a hit to their reputation and credibility (they're seen as unprofessional), which incentivizes politeness.

Of course there's always a big difference between the real world and the online world too. No doubt in online world things tend towards nastiness and name-calling more often than not, but I think that's most due to the freedom and protection anonymity provides.

 

[DNB]

Human interactions are often compromised by lack of empathy for the unknown. Examples;
1. Rich are judgmental of the poor without ever being poor.
2. Non-addicts are judgmental of addicts without ever experiencing addiction.
3. 1st world citizens are judgmental of 3rd world without ever experiencing 3rd world poverty.
4. Racists are judgmental of other races without ever considering they themselves could have been born into the exact same circumstances and race being hated by nothing other than blind chance.
5. And yes, non-believers are judgmental of believers while lacking the insight from the Holy Spirit. “Judge not, lest you be judged “, Matthew 7:1
6. Many others

As many have already said, there requires an empathy to the other person's understanding, when introducing someone to a completely novel and foreign concept.

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
9:19. For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21. to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

The Gospel of Christ is both an unintuitive and radical concept. For, one only gains the awareness of such a Theology, through Scripture (revelation). And, the principle of faith over works, seems rather absurd until one explains the wisdom behind it (futility of the Law, faith exposes the depth of one's understanding and their heart).
I believe humbleseeker, that you may be offside a bit by placing the blame solely on the unbeliever. Like @Justadude said, it's rather circular reasoning to impart that, one requires faith, in order to receive faith. Or, which Christian will tolerate a Muslim quoting the Quran to them?

In such a case, it is the failure on the evangels part in not being able to expound on the wisdom of the Gospel, ...in the same manner that Paul did in all his Epistles, and all his evangelistic efforts. Not one of his letters lacked insight and explanation. Jesus' parables were full of wisdom, all meant to instruct and direct towards salvation.

Always appreciate who your audience is, and speak to them on a level that they can understand. When a Christian has a formidable comprehension of the Gospel, they are able to be versatile when imparting the message of salvation.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

From my experiences, the disconnect stems from the differences in what each party values. You stated, "Believer counters with Christian explanations according to Jesus and bible", thereby indicating that the believer values the Bible. But a non-Christian likely doesn't value the Bible, or at the very least doesn't value it as much, or in the same way, as the believer. It's like if a Muslim quoted the Quran to a Christian. Is the Christian likely to find the Quran persuasive? Probably not, because it's not something he values.

As long as people keep appealing to resources that the other party doesn't value, the disconnect will persist.

It will persist unless and until God gives a new heart to the unbelieving truth suppressor

 

[humbleseeker]

I realize that's what you believe, but I hope you also appreciate how to someone outside of your faith it comes across as a little circular and illogical. Something like, once you believe then the belief will become truth for you

And yet that's exactly how it happens for the non-believer. The tricky part is it takes a leap of faith for him to get there which he may or may not achieve. To a Christian this is always a worthy conversation as inspired by the love of the Holy Spirit for the concern for the non-believer. Often, the NB may feel disrespected and lash out but the Christian has planted the seed (followed by prayer). At this point it's probably wise to withdraw from the conversation.

Acts 19:9 ESV / 51 helpful votes
But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.

At some point the NB may wish to attain the life of joy, peace, and love displayed by the Christian witness and indeed take that leap of faith.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Christ i like; Christians, not so much"

 

[Justadude]

It will persist unless and until God gives a new heart to the unbelieving truth suppressor

Ah the Calvinism debate.....not touching that one!

 

[Justadude]

And yet that's exactly how it happens for the non-believer. The tricky part is it takes a leap of faith for him to get there which he may or may not achieve. To a Christian this is always a worthy conversation as inspired by the love of the Holy Spirit for the concern for the non-believer. Often, the NB may feel disrespected and lash out but the Christian has planted the seed (followed by prayer). At this point it's probably wise to withdraw from the conversation.

Acts 19:9 ESV / 51 helpful votes
But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.

At some point the NB may wish to attain the life of joy, peace, and love displayed by the Christian witness and indeed take that leap of faith.

Of course that begs the obvious question: why should someone "take a leap of faith" with Christianity, but not do the same with all other religions? For example, Mormons seem quite happy and filled with joy, peace, and love, so why not just start having faith in Mormonism and see how it goes?

 

[bbyrd009]

zing

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Ah the Calvinism debate.....not touching that one!

Any questions you have are welcome, dude

I will help if I can.

 

[Justadude]

Any questions you have are welcome, dude

I will help if I can.

Oh, no thanks. It's an internal debate within Christianity, so I'll leave y'all to that.

 

[humbleseeker]

Of course that begs the obvious question: why should someone "take a leap of faith" with Christianity, but not do the same with all other religions? For example, Mormons seem quite happy and filled with joy, peace, and love, so why not just start having faith in Mormonism and see how it goes?

I can only hope to plant a seed that may eventually help someone. I wish for you all the best.