The Day of The Lord, Wrong Timing Applied

[Earburner]

While all of that is true, no, all are not waiting.

If we did not hear the angels sing, we should have. If we do not realize that Jesus has come in glory, that glory of the Father (which is spirit) when we opened the door to Him; that the flames of fire from Heaven are the Holy Spirit as promised; that in that moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the trump of Him who is called the Last, that we were indeed raised incorruptible and were changed forever. That it was even explained by Paul that "we who are alive" forevermore "and remain" until the end of our flesh, remain until that moment no one knows except the Father. That just as Jesus was raised in the flesh to walk the earth forty days before His ascension, we too walk out our days even with the marks of our sins as He did.

Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me. Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?” John 21:23​

In 29-33AD, we must consider the order in which of His "comings" that Jesus was referring to.
Which "coming" would Jesus be speaking of, when He spoke John 21:23
1. In the visible likeness of our flesh (past).
2. In His invisible Spirit (Pentecost), still current.
3. In the visible Glory of His fiery Immortality (Future).

EDIT: I might add that this is the same identical problem that the OT prophets had, when they spoke the prophetic words of God. They could not, nor were they allowed, to speak directly to which "coming" of the Lord, by which their words should be applied.
As a result, in their sentence structures, their words were all conveyed in every which way and fashion, appearing as if there was no order to them.

Only "by His Spirit" (Zechariah 4:6), the mind of Christ (John 16:13), are we now able to correctly associate what they have said, to each of the three known comings of the Lord, as I have shown.

Therefore, preconceived eschatological doctrines should never discern the word of God for us, but rather that the words of God, "by His Spirit", shall discern echatological doctrines, always!

 

[amigo de christo]

The kundalini ripped through churches like greased lightning and so very very few could discern it for what is was .
Them folks was playing with strange fire .
Todd bentley , when talking about his wife of adultery , was saying WOW now that is strange fire .
HE had no IDEA how right he was . That was KUNDALINI In action and it took the churches by storm .

 

[Earburner]

The kundalini ripped through churches like greased lightning and so very very few could discern it for what is was .
Them folks was playing with strange fire .
Todd bentley , when talking about his wife of adultery , was saying WOW now that is strange fire .
HE had no IDEA how right he was . That was KUNDALINI In action and it took the churches by storm .

What?? The Hindu religion has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit of God and Pentecost. Any kind of "spirit", "kundalini" or whatever, is 100% suspect of the spirit of antichrist.

 

[Earburner]

ADC,
Knowing your stand in Christ, I am surprised by your above recent post! If it was posted by you as an accident, you meaning to post it in a different forum (inter-faith maybe), I can understand. In any case, it is a far cry of how your stand is revealed in the thread I just mentioned, with a copy of your comments below.
From the thread "Love seeks not it's own", you wrote:
"Nor does love SEEK ITS OWN WAY and its own religoin TO GOD .
LOVE WOULD POINT TO JESUS CHRIST AS THE ABSOLUTE AND ONLY MEANS TO BE SAVED .
SO tell me , HOW come todays love is saying other religoins have thier own way to GOD .
Cause that aint love , ITS A LIE from hell .
The god of the muslims cannot save them , the god of the buddists cannot save them*
the mind of the athiest cannot save him , ONLY JESUS CAN . YE MUST BELEIVE IN HIM TO BE SAVED."

* >So then, I am saying: neither do the gods of the Hindus save them.

I am hoping that you had an error in posting!
In His Peace,
Earburner

 

[ScottA]

I am part and partial to your thinking, except for one thing, the work of God's salvation towards us and that of our redemption, is a two stage process.

The first stage is our salvation:
Jesus said: "Ye MUST be born again".
We who are Born again by His Spirit, have received the Spirit of Christ now, and indeed we are spiritually risen with Christ.
Along with that, we have received the Righteousness of God, with His Gift of Eternal Life 1 John 5:12-13. But, as for Jesus, He is more than just Spirit, He was also made after the likeness of our flesh, but after His Resurrection, He is now in His New Life of Spirit, Immortal flesh and bone, but without blood.
Therefore, we would be incomplete, if we were resurrected being only Spirit. But as the scriptures say, we will be resurrected after His likeness, of His Immortality.

The second stage is our redemption:
Jesus is now both Spirit and Glorified flesh, and ALL WE, whether alive or dead, are still waiting to be glorified in the likeness of His Immortality.

For all, who have been spiritually risen in Christ (born again), but have physically died in faith, they are now spiritually with God, being asleep in Jesus, waiting for His Final and fiery appearance, to be Glorified into the likeness of Christ's immortality.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
KJV [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming [G5395- Blazing] fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

See also Luke 17:28-30 for support scriptures:
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed THEM ALL.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The flesh desires to be glorified, but it is rather God who is glorified whom is spirit.

There is indeed two stages, as it is written:

And He said to them, “Go, tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’ Luke 13:32
​

However, that perfection is the perfection of the Father--not of men of flesh and bone. For Christ did not come that He should remain like men or that the flesh should be glorified--there is no glorified flesh, but rather as it is also written: "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.", which is spirit. And His return is not that the He should remain in the flesh, but that we should be where He is...which is with and in the Father, whom is spirit and perfect.

But men being flesh saw the likeness of flesh as He ascended and did not see the likeness of the Father to whom Jesus went. It is that likeness that the angels spoke of. But He also comes in the flesh, that is, again in His body--which He has given to His church: As He said "Not when you expect...not by observation", but just as He also said--He comes into us...which He has been doing since Pentecost, as Paul explained, "but each one in his own order." Which makes these days "as the days of Noah"--no grand finale, but as an unexpected flood...except not of water as God promised never to do again, but with fire--holy fire, which is the Spirit.

But do not think that the Spirit is less than the flesh, it is all that and more, much more: "Perfect, just as God is perfect."

 

[ScottA]

In 29-33AD, we must consider the order in which of His "comings" that Jesus was referring to.
Which "coming" would Jesus be speaking of, when He spoke John 21:23
1. In the visible likeness of our flesh (past).
2. In His invisible Spirit (Pentecost), still current.
3. In the visible Glory of His fiery Immortality (Future).

EDIT: I might add that this is the same identical problem that the OT prophets had, when they spoke the prophetic words of God. They could not, nor were they allowed, to speak directly to which "coming" of the Lord, by which their words should be applied.
As a result, in their sentence structures, their words were all conveyed in every which way and fashion, appearing as if there was no order to them.

Only "by His Spirit" (Zechariah 4:6), the mind of Christ (John 16:13), are we now able to correctly associate what they have said, to each of the three known comings of the Lord, as I have shown.

Therefore, preconceived eschatological doctrines should never discern the word of God for us, but rather that the words of God, "by His Spirit", shall discern echatological doctrines, always!

Again, three days, but just two comings:

‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’ Luke 13:32
​

As it is written: "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46

 

[Timtofly]

Do you have scripture that reveals that?
Ever since Pentecost, aren't we ALL still waiting for Jesus' final appearance, in the Glory of His Immortality, in flaming fire from Heaven?
1 Corinthians 15[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Yes. 2 Corinthians 5:1

Paul says at the moment the soul leaves one body. Paul never said thousands of years from the soul leaving. Paul never said the soul receives this body at a Second Coming. Paul said the next body was waiting there in Paradise.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul expected to be alive at the Second Coming. Obviously that was over 1900 years ago. How can you prevent Paul from already enjoying that permanent incorruptible physical body?

 

[Timtofly]

Those who came out of the Graves in the 1st century were "Raised From The Dead" just as Lazarus and Tabitha were

The resurrection and glorified body to be received is "Future" that will take place at the coming of Jesus Christ, as earburner clearly explains above in post #333

Glorification is receiving one's spirit. Lazarus was raised with a permanent incorruptible physical body, just like Jesus had at the moment Lazarus was resurrected. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life, even prior to the Cross. Lazarus is still waiting to be glorified, but not waiting for another physical body.

Tabitha was not Resurrected by Jesus calling her out of her grave. Paul was given authority to prevent Tabitha from leaving this body. Tabitha was not given a new body. Her soul did not permanently leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Her soul remained for a few more temporal years of sin and decay.

 

[Truth7t7]

Paul was given authority to prevent Tabitha from leaving this body. Tabitha was not given a new body. Her soul did not permanently leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Her soul remained for a few more temporal years of sin and decay.

That's about as bizarre as it gets, found no place in scripture, what's next?

 

[Timtofly]

That's about as bizarre as it gets, found no place in scripture, what's next?

No, bizarre is you claiming the soul cannot leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

You think the soul hangs out in the box the body is placed in 6 feet under ground. You think the soul hangs out in the ashes of a cremated body. That is bizarre.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, bizarre is you claiming the soul cannot leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

You think the soul hangs out in the box the body is placed in 6 feet under ground. You think the soul hangs out in the ashes of a cremated body. That is bizarre.

Bizarre!

Quote Timtofly Post #348

"Paul was given authority to prevent Tabitha from leaving this body. Tabitha was not given a new body. Her soul did not permanently leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Her soul remained for a few more temporal years of sin and decay."

 

[Earburner]

Yes. 2 Corinthians 5:1

Paul says at the moment the soul leaves one body. Paul never said thousands of years from the soul leaving. Paul never said the soul receives this body at a Second Coming. Paul said the next body was waiting there in Paradise.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul expected to be alive at the Second Coming. Obviously that was over 1900 years ago. How can you prevent Paul from already enjoying that permanent incorruptible physical body?

I hear what you are saying about 1 Corinthians 15, but if it stands alone, then it makes other NT scriptures meaningless. But, if other scriptures should then stand alone, then the reverse would be true for 1 Cor. 15, and it would become meaningless by itself.

Regardless of what "church-ianity" has fabricated, and has indoctrinated all Christians with, the number of the "comings" of Jesus, by their account of them, they have seriously mis-numbered them, and is therefore completely in error.

As for what you propose, about Saints who are alive after death, I do agree to a point, for Jesus did say that in John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

However, my thinking is to bring it all together, through the context of the NT, with the understanding of the three comings of the Lord.
1. In His Flesh-past
2. In His Spirit-present
3. In His Immortality-future
For each of His three "comings", different purposes of God's will are manifested in each.

In His first coming, it began with the six works of God, that Jesus was to "finish", while He was in the likeness of our mortal flesh of His first coming. That prophecy, now fulfilled, can be seen in Daniel 9:24.

So then, what we are dealing with now , ever since Pentecost, is the remaining two comings of the Lord. One is present and current, and His final coming is still future.

For the full view of those who have died in faith and for those who are still living now in mortal flesh, we must follow the context of NT prophetic scriptures in 1 Corinthians 15:35-51 and that of 1 Corinthians 15:52, but then we must compare it to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, being the context for our full understanding.

 

[Earburner]

Again, three days, but just two comings:

‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’ Luke 13:32

Using your allegory, being thoroughly relative to the three comings of Jesus.
‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’
Please see:
1. "Today" (flesh)- Daniel 9:24, John 17:4, John 19:30, Matthew 12:28-29.
2. "Tomorrow" (Spirit)- Joel 2:28-30, Joel 3:14, Acts 1:4-5, Acts 2:16-19, Acts 3:1-8
3. "Third day" (Perfection)- 1 Corinthians 15:52,
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

 

[Keraz]

No, bizarre is you claiming the soul cannot leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

You think the soul hangs out in the box the body is placed in 6 feet under ground. You think the soul hangs out in the ashes of a cremated body. That is bizarre.

But you think the soul goes to Paradise, or Hades [hell] The word 'paradise', is an ancient Persian word. It means a fabulous place where every want and need is catered for, as you relax in luxury. A totally unbiblical idea that cannot happen.

The soul of a dead person returns to God who made it. Eccl 12:7 There is no consciousness after death until we all stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:11-15 AFTER the Millennium.

 

[ScottA]

Using your allegory, being thoroughly relative to the three comings of Jesus.
‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’
Please see:
1. "Today" (flesh)- Daniel 9:24, John 17:4, John 19:30, Matthew 12:28-29.
2. "Tomorrow" (Spirit)- Joel 2:28-30, Joel 3:14, Acts 1:4-5, Acts :16-19.
3. "Third day" (Perfection)- 1 Corinthians 15:52,
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

That is stated well enough for chronology sake--just as Jesus stated it. However, understanding that the Spirit and He who is Perfect are One and the same, they do come virtually together...in the twinkling of an eye.

What makes it seem different and separate, is that Christ comes to each of the two folds that He must bring separately, that is "to the Jew first and then to the Greek." The problem is...as Paul pointed out, we "by no means precede" them.

So, we can break it down by unpacking it, or we can understand it as it is repacked unto the Oneness of God in the End. While it yet unfolds, both are true.

Great discussion!

 

[Timtofly]

However, my thinking is to bring it all together, through the context of the NT, with the understanding of the three comings of the Lord.
1. In His Flesh-past
2. In His Spirit-present
3. In His Immortality-future
For each of His three "comings", different purposes of God's will are manifested in each.

Seems only centered and limited to a few people alive on earth, instead of billions already in Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

Bizarre!

Quote Timtofly Post #348

"Paul was given authority to prevent Tabitha from leaving this body. Tabitha was not given a new body. Her soul did not permanently leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Her soul remained for a few more temporal years of sin and decay."

You think it bizarre that you are a soul in Adam's dead corruptible flesh?

 

[Earburner]

As it is written: "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46

Jesus, after His Resurrection, is both physical flesh, (unsustained by blood), and spiritual (sustained by His Holy Spirit), which is the fulness of His Immortality (perfection).
John.20[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

 

[Earburner]

Seems only centered and limited to a few people alive on earth, instead of billions already in Paradise.

What did you think has been going on ever since Pentecost, upto today?
2. In His Spirit-present:
Joel 3[14] Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Matthew 24[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
All who have died in faith, in their mortal flesh, are in paradise and are asleep in Jesus, being of the Holy Spirit only. They are still waiting to be made into the likeness of Christ's immortality.
Romans 6[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
> Jesus was spiritually and physically resurrected.
1 John 3[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Timtofly]

But you think the soul goes to Paradise, or Hades [hell] The word 'paradise', is an ancient Persian word. It means a fabulous place where every want and need is catered for, as you relax in luxury. A totally unbiblical idea that cannot happen.

The soul of a dead person returns to God who made it. Eccl 12:7 There is no consciousness after death until we all stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:11-15 AFTER the Millennium.

So Jesus was a Persian evangelist declaring a fabulous place etc. to the thief on the Cross?

The word means Garden. Jesus was talking about the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was. Paradise is the third heaven according to Paul. After the Cross Adam's offspring was no longer banned from the Garden, Paradise. Do you not accept that the Tree of Life has always existed someplace?

You accept the teachings of an old sinful Solomon over Jesus' own words on the Cross?

You prefer Solomon over the Resurrection and the Life? Why are you quoting Solomon instead of Jesus?