The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[Brakelite]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Every government, whether it be democratic or autocratic, has laws. Even a remote village in the middle of an unknown jungle devoid of all outside contact, will over time develop a set of laws by which the people are governed.
Them there are the laws of physics that govern the way we build stuff. Ignore those laws, for example gravity, and we get into all manner of difficulty. Engineering, carpentry, all the trades are governed by law. Some natural, some man made, but law nevertheless.
The laws of nature govern creation. Without them is chaos, as we witness during major storms and disasters, like volcanic explosions. Is is natural law that a volcano explores, but the chaos afterwards is just that: chaos. So man devises laws to bring order to the chaos.

And Christians of all people think the God Who created all of the above has abandoned all His most important laws, the ones the govern morality exposing sin that destroys His most cherished part of creation??? The laws based on love and upon which hang all the law and the prophets!!??

 

[Brakelite]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

You should read this: it explains clearly where your theology is leading, and had had to come to in order to justify certain modern neo-pagan lifestyles...

The Next Step in the Moral Revolution is Polyamory — Fulcrum7

Friend, if that statement sounds perfectly reasonable to you, it’s because you’ve been captured by the modern age. In biblical terms, it should not make sense, and it doesn’t.

www.fulcrum7.com

 

[St. SteVen]

And Christians of all people think the God Who created all of the above has abandoned all His most important laws, the ones the govern morality exposing sin that destroys His most cherished part of creation??? The laws based on love and upon which hang all the law and the prophets!!??

Abandoned is an interesting word choice.
As if it was obsolete?

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant,
no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Marvelloustime]

your view is no sufficient to say the least .
The law was added BECAUSE of t rangressions ,
TILL the promised ONE would come .
THE law was not meant as a punishment to ISRAEL .
IT was meant to be KEPT . YES .
But within it we see To the hearer and the doer it always wo rked GOOD .
Course all fall short , ITS WHY they had the blood sacrfices for remission of sins .
But even that was not counted , WHEN ONE did so f rom a wicked non repentant heart .
You see the LAW of GOD is HOLY . The true law SPIRITUAL .
GOD always desired their obediance and the good of them .
IF ONLY there were a heart in this people to KEEP my commands . you should reread deut and other places too .
And now a word.
Later recorded in the prophets .
AND i will make a new convenant with them . I WILL WRITE MY LAWS upon their hearts in their minds
And i will BE THIER GOD and they shall be my people .
JESUS the CHRIST . HE is the answer . But beware the cry of the ecumiencal harlot of all harlots .
For by her love she has led them into REBELLION against GOD and HIS CHRIST .
OH yes she has sold her love . And all of the world shall embrace this love . FOR IT is of the world , NOT GOD .
Its love is deadly to the soul of any who drinks of that cup .

@amigo de christo

 

[Brakelite]

Abandoned is an interesting word choice.
As if it was obsolete?

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant,
no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Hey bro, hold up a second. We are talking about some serious stuff here, don't you go just quoting scripture that seems to suit your argument. No way ought you to do that.
You quoted Hebrews 8:7, then jumped to verse 13! As if you can formulate a doctrine based on two verses missing so much context. Check out what those missing verses actually say.
First question...
Ask yourself, what actually was faulty... who or what did the writer blame for being faulty?
Second question...
What did God do to correct the fault? Scrap the covenant altogether, or do something else with it?

 

[St. SteVen]

Every government, whether it be democratic or autocratic, has laws.

Agreed.
But that's not the law I am talking about.

I'm talking about the law given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses.

• Galatians 2:21
  I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
  
  
• Galatians 3:18
  For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise;
  but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
  
  
• Galatians 5:4
  You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hey bro, hold up a second. We are talking about some serious stuff here, don't you go just quoting scripture that seems to suit your argument. No way ought you to do that.

I've been debating this subject for decades.
Living under the law has been replaced with living by the Spirit.

 

[Brakelite]

Agreed.
But that's not the law I am talking about.

I'm talking about the law given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses.

• Galatians 2:21
  I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
  
  
• Galatians 3:18
  For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise;
  but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
  
  
• Galatians 5:4
  You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

God gave several laws to Israel through Moses. Civil laws. Health laws. Sanctuary laws. But only one law was placed inside the ark, under the mercy seat, a metaphor for God's throne. God's own moral law, the standard of morality for all creation. Those other laws were added because the moral laws were transgressed. Those other laws were given to Moses and were written on parchment, rolled up and put on the side of the ark. These were the laws which were temporary, until Christ came to fulfill them. They were laws that were designed to govern God's people in such a fashion to teach them the way of restoration in their relationship with God that was damaged because of sin. Sin was the transgression against the tables of the covenant. The sanctuary laws were the remedy. Until Christ. Now He is the remedy. God did NOT take away the moral laws of the covenant to bring His standards down on order to meet the low carnal standards of sinful men. Nor did God expect man in His sinful nature to earn His way back into God's good books by striving to not sin in their own strength. God knew man is incapable of living a righteous life that meet with God's perfect standard. But failure to accomplish perfect obedience in his own strength does not excuse man from obedience in God's strength. In fact, the power of the gospel is the ONLY WAY for man to be restored to a righteous relationship with his Creator. And its through the sanctuary that Israel was to find the way to the Father. Today, we come to the Father through Jesus. The sanctuary, its sacrifices, its priesthood, its feast days, and various rituals all pointed to Jesus as the Mediator through Whom our strength to obey all of God's commandments comes. The ritual laws have gone. The commandments remain.

 

[Brakelite]

I've been debating this subject for decades.
Living under the law has been replaced with living by the Spirit.

I agree. But the law still stands. The Spirit of Christ helps us to obey it.

 

[St. SteVen]

First question...
Ask yourself, what actually was faulty... who or what did the writer blame for being faulty?
Second question...
What did God do to correct the fault? Scrap the covenant altogether, or do something else with it?

There is a new testament and and old testament, an old covenant and a new covenant.

The law given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses was temporary.
God's law of human conscience was from the beginning. (after the Fall)
And is still in force.

The law that was engraved in letters on stone was the transitory ministry of condemnation and death.

2 Corinthians 3:6-8 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses
because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

1 Corinthians 9:20-22 NIV
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews.
To those under the law I became like one under the law
(though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law
(though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law),
so as to win those not having the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak.
I have become all things to all people so that
by all possible means I might save some.

 

[St. SteVen]

The commandments remain.

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given?

Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV
It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.
- To whom was the Sabbath commandment given?

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,
so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us,
so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20 NIV
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us.
Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”

--- MANNA and SABBATH ---

Exodus 16:21-23 NIV
Each morning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers[a] for each person—
and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses.
23 He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded:
‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord.
So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil.
Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’”

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey bro, hold up a second. We are talking about some serious stuff here, don't you go just quoting scripture that seems to suit your argument. No way ought you to do that.
You quoted Hebrews 8:7, then jumped to verse 13! As if you can formulate a doctrine based on two verses missing so much context. Check out what those missing verses actually say.
First question...
Ask yourself, what actually was faulty... who or what did the writer blame for being faulty?
Second question...
What did God do to correct the fault? Scrap the covenant altogether, or do something else with it?

i see you caught what steven left out .
so allow me to answer .
For finding fault WITH THEM . notice it was not with HIS LAW but with them .
If only my people had a heart to keep my commandments .
WELL that would be the fix in the NEW covenant .
For i will magnify MY law .
I will write my laws upon their hearts and in their minds . And i will be their GOD and they shall be My people .
Look how often GOD said , LOVE THE LORD thy GOD with all their heart , soul , to obey ME .
LOVE , the LOVE OF GOD would fullfill the righteousness of the law .
but as you can see many desire to follow a love that sure seems to trangress , make void ,
and how was it you put it , oh yeAH to serve neo pagan etc .
Many have not THE LOVE of GOD shed upon their hearts .
For many have come and submitted themselves unto a sin serving flesh pleasing god and jesus .
And i dont think i have to tell you why i refused to captilize that god , that jesus .
Cause iT AINT GOD and it is not of HIM . It is what paul himself would have called another jesus .

 

[amigo de christo]

I've actually been studying it recently. That's what leads me to say that it was intended to be punitive.

Deuteronomy enumerates a series of blessings and curses on Israel. The blessings are predicated on obedience. The curses on disobedience. Before the book is through, Moses already tells us that Israel is going to fall short and all the curses are going to fall upon them.

Perhaps you might benefit from a re-reading?

Well yes it was used punitive as well . For correction as well .
The curses were all about disobedience and the blesssing indeed all about obediance .
Now under the new covenant we are no longer UNDER the law .
As i am sure you would agree .
but what concerns me for many is the fact they use grace as a means TO trangress .
PROVING indeed , yes in very deed they DO NOT know HIM .
LOVE fullfills THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law .
Many have NOT the SPIRIT for their love sure seems to accept certain sins , calling them good
and calling the words of GOD that expose those sins as EVIL .
PROOF they do not KNOW HIM .
And more so we have folks even denying the very gospel of YE MUST beleive
and by means of a sensual love Have made VERY broad , very inclusive , the path THEY say Leads TO GOD .
Muhammed led and his religoin leads one only TO A LIE .
AS do and as does EVERY other relig oin , to include atheism .
Rather than preaching THE DIRE need to REPENT and BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS
they go around trying to preach false hope to the false religoins and christendom .
Making the claim of anti christ that ALL religoins are serving GOD in their own ways . That BE A LIE .
GOD is TRUTH , CHRIST is T RUTH , THE SPIRIT is T RUTH , HIS words are TRUTH .
NO LIE comes of GOD . And beleive me the one who it do come from
can darn sure sell his lie as though its for the good of humanity . Just like he sold it to eve in the garden .
We better all watch out .

 

[St. SteVen]

I agree. But the law still stands. The Spirit of Christ helps us to obey it.

What law are you talking about?

Ephesians 2:14-16 NIV
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,
by which he put to death their hostility.

 

[amigo de christo]

What law are you talking about?

Ephesians 2:14-16 NIV
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,
by which he put to death their hostility.

both BELEIVING JEW AND GENTILE are made ONE in JESUS CHRIST .
But i shudder in terror for both the jews and gentiles who FAIL to BELIEVE ON HIM and had rejected HIS gospel .
The plan of GOD to reconcile IS by FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST . For the jew or gentile who do so
NOW has PEACE WITH GOD .
But woe unto all who follow this inclusive peace message of the world , WHICH HAS DENIED
the very fact ONE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . And has rather offered up
a olive branch peace offering OF ANTI CHRIST and many anti christs .
And do remember GOD is no minstir of ANY sin , THUS CHRIST is NOT .

 

[Wick Stick]

Well yes it was used punitive as well . For correction as well .
The curses were all about disobedience and the blesssing indeed all about obediance .
Now under the new covenant we are no longer UNDER the law .
As i am sure you would agree .
but what concerns me for many is the fact they use grace as a means TO trangress .
PROVING indeed , yes in very deed they DO NOT know HIM .
LOVE fullfills THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law .
Many have NOT the SPIRIT for their love sure seems to accept certain sins , calling them good
and calling the words of GOD that expose those sins as EVIL .
PROOF they do not KNOW HIM .

Most of us think of THE LAW in terms of observing it ourselves. That's a good thing, because that IS the New Testament application of the Law. The "law on our hearts."

But if you read Deuteronomy, that isn't how Moses frames it. Moses predicts that there will be people who transgress the Law, and his admonishment is for the people to be ready with rocks to throw when it happens. "Put the evil away from among you" is something he says 8 times in Deuteronomy, and he's talking executing transgressors. Deuteronomy is "enforce this against each other."

There's a reason Jeremiah calls for a New Covenant. There's a reason Jesus contradicts Moses with "JUDGE NOT."

Muhammed led and his religoin leads one only TO A LIE .

As I read history, I find Muhammed is overrated. He himself was illiterate. "His" teachings and reforms were not well accepted for most of his life. It's only later in life, after marrying well, and with the support of some political alliances, that he gained any following. Most of what is now Islam actually came from his successors several generations later.

 

[amigo de christo]

Most of us think of THE LAW in terms of observing it ourselves. That's a good thing, because that IS the New Testament application of the Law. The "law on our hearts."

But if you read Deuteronomy, that isn't how Moses frames it. Moses predicts that there will be people who transgress the Law, and his admonishment is for the people to be ready with rocks to throw when it happens. "Put the evil away from among you" is something he says 8 times in Deuteronomy, and he's talking executing transgressors. Deuteronomy is "enforce this against each other."

There's a reason Jeremiah calls for a New Covenant. There's a reason Jesus contradicts Moses with "JUDGE NOT."

As I read history, I find Muhammed is overrated. He himself was illiterate. "His" teachings and reforms were not well accepted for most of his life. It's only later in life, after marrying well, and with the support of some political alliances, that he gained any following. Most of what is now Islam actually came from his successors several generations later.

JESUS did not contradict moses . where do you all get this from .
HE FULLFILLED the law given by GOD to MOSES .
And islam IS OF ANTI CHRIST and on that i have no doubt .
I will not hear nor have the blending of it on my watch .
EVEN unbleiving jews dont get a pass . I will hear nor receieve any talks
of this abrahamic false faith stuff in my hearing .
The anti christ of all anti christ religions IS THE ECUMINECAL INTERFAITH ONE .
it will merge the false decieved religoins with the decieved within christendom .
THEY ALL WIL LBELIEVE they do the do the WILL of GOD . ONLY IT AINT of GOD it of THE DEVIL.
SO i will hear no words from any man , woman or child that in
any way small or great that supports this ecuemincal inclusive anti christ whore of all harlots .
Just in case you were maybe even THINKING of bringing kind words about it . I just wanted
to halt it , JUST in case you even thought about bringing anythig good about ecuinecalism intefaith .
Not saying you did , but just saying . MY MIND has long be FULLY persauded .
I will hear no and believe no such words that
support this ecmuenicalsim inclusivism intefaith . But i will warn ag ainst it . And POINT ONLY TO JESUS CHRIST .

 

[Wick Stick]

JESUS did not contradict moses . where do you all get this from .

Sure He did. I just quoted it.

Moses: "In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour"
Jesus: "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

 

[amigo de christo]

Sure He did. I just said it.

Moses: "In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour"
Jesus: "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

nope . that be you MISUNDERSTANDING JESUS .
we are to judge the brethren . JESUS said FIRST pull the mote out of thy eye
THEN you will b e able .
DO you not JUDGE those that are within . GOD judges those outside
wherefore Put that MAN OUT .
WE are to judge righteously . But as i said the judge not correct not GOT LED ASTRAY .
SO JESUS DID NOT contradict the law of MOSES . HE DID fullfilll it .

 

[Wick Stick]

nope . that be you MISUNDERSTANDING JESUS .
we are to judge the brethren . JESUS said FIRST pull the mote out of thy eye
THEN you will b e able .
DO you not JUDGE those that are within . GOD judges those outside
wherefore Put that MAN OUT .
WE are to judge righteously . But as i said the judge not correct not GOT LED ASTRAY .
SO JESUS DID NOT contradict the law of MOSES . HE DID fullfilll it .

They're both talking about 'those that are within.' Neither is talking about 'those outside.' You've inserted an idea that's not in the text.

And you shouldn't read Matt 7 and come away with, "after I fix my beam problem, I can start picking motes." That is the opposite of what is recommended there.

I appreciate your desire to reconcile Jesus and Moses. But perhaps you shouldn't. They aren't meant to be reconciled. The contradiction appears to be intentional on Jesus' part. "You have heard it said... but I say to you..."