The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[saved by grace 101]

We have Christ in the heart. Jesus taught that we were to seek God's righteousness with as much hunger and as much passion as we would His kingdom. We are to hunger and thirst for it. And there's only one way to attain it. Through the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The closer we come to Jesus, the more unworthy we view ourselves, but the more gracious we view God, and love Him the more. We long that the image of Christ be created in us. We are filled with His love, and with His Spirit. And so long as we walk in the Spirit, there is no condemnation, though we may fail and fall short of the standard God has set, yet we can be confident that God will not give up His work in us, for He Himself has promised to finish and complete the work He has begun. And He will, so long as we walk in the Spirit and in faith, believing. But not everyone believes. Some say it isn't necessary to obey God's commandments, others say it's impossible. But the scripture says all things are possible to them that believe. The scripture says we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens us. The scripture says
“7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ”
Romans 8:7-9 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

So if the carnal mind cannot obey the law of God, the spiritual mind can. And a previous text says exactly that...
“2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:2-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

I went to your denominational church to please a friend with an open mind I honestly did, all I knew about the denomination was they worshipped on a Saturday, no big deal I thought bearing in mind Rom14:5

The second week I was there I was literally shocked and stunned to see two women laughing and joking as they took the Lords name in vain, apparently unaware they were transgressing one of the commands they both insisted must be obeyed. If I didn’t care about righteous living I would not have been shocked and stunned would I. And they were by n o means the only ones transgressing that particular commandment without conscience. I had never previously witnessed such a thing in over forty years of going to various churches on Sundays.

One woman turned up for church immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under her arm, if the minister said something she approved of in the sermon she gave out a hearty ‘AMEN’ To look at her you would have thought she was the most godly of people. She too insisted you must obey the TC. A while later I found out she was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. I asled he how she could do that as she was transgressing the TC. She shrugged her shoulders and relied: ‘No ones perfect and all sin is equal. I could go on and on. I could not even turn up for a church service if I was having one affair, let alone multiple affairs. I honestly saw more flagrant transgressing of the TC in that church than any church I have previously been to. Like you, they made the statements such as the righteous will obey the TC.

And you say that, though you yourself transgress them. Paul’s message is great, die to the law and sin shall no longer be your master. Look to it, and well, I saw what the result was in that church

 

[Brakelite]

I wrote this for another thread, but think it could do with repeating here as well...

Interesting tack you are taking here. You are writing a lot of words, but saying very little. We are all aware of the many in all churches, including your own, that attend church and go through the motions without any conversion experience. They have a form of godliness, but their hearts are far from God. They may appear to worship even. They say the prayers, they sing songs.

However, I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.

There are secular people in the world who wouldn't dream of breaking God's commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal from anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who 'religiously' attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.

Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one's very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one's will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. Then, and only then, everything we do,
even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.
The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the submission and surrender that is required .... when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23.
So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalf of mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.

Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[saved by grace 101]

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Matt23:2-4

 

[JustMe]

How do you know that the form of belief and faith you cling to is actually curing the disease and not just the symptoms? Is that which you cherish as 'church', faith or whatever, simply providing anti-inflammatory solutions to the consequences of sin, or is it dealing with the root cause - a very much alive and perfectly well 'self'.

Sin is a terminal disease for which there is only one sure remedy. This remedy must be taken daily, and in large doses. Sin is a rampant virulent poison that grows without restraint if given license, and destroys all whose paths it crosses. And the only remedy, the only cure, is death to self.

Anything else in the Christian life touches only the symptoms. The joy of fellowship, without death to self affects only that innate loneliness that comes from estrangement from God through sin.

Any peace we may experience as a result of knowledge or even faith in the scriptures, without death to self, is merely a short-term appeasement to the conscience.

Death to self or the carnal nature or the flesh, must come before being born again. Death to self must come before baptism. Death to self must come before the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

How do we know that the faith/religion/Christianity we hold to is curing the disease? By the fruits that grow as a result of the characters we feed. If we are feeding the carnal nature, then the carnal nature is going to flourish and live, and the fruits of that nature will be manifest in sin, worldliness, and compromise.
If we are however putting to death the carnal nature through faith in the power of Christ, then we starve it. We refuse to feed that nature. We instead feed the spirit. And the fruit of the spirit will be found in holiness and righteousness expressed through love that is implanted in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Mathew 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Throughout the NT Jesus likened the kingdom of heaven to a seed. We, like the seed, must die, be buried, and be raised up into a new life. Death is the only remedy to sin. It is that death that is figuratively portrayed by baptism.

There is a further aspect to this. Throughout Revelation we are promised great things if we would but 'overcome'. Jesus said to the Laodiceans that should we overcome, we will sit with Him on His throne, just as He overcame and sat down on His Father's throne. So that strongly implies to me that we are to overcome in the same precise way that Jesus did. How did Jesus overcome?

John was invited to see who had the right to open the seals of the book. Who had the power and authority to reveal the future? Who was He?

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Ahhh! A Lion!!! A ferocious Lion who by great strength and power has prevailed!!! Is that what John saw???

6 ¶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain

A Lamb!!! Yes, a Lamb as it had been slain. How did Jesus overcome? Through self sacrifice!!! And that my friends is how we are to overcome. Not by strength or power or force of arms, but by surrender! Complete self sacrificial surrender to God and our fellow man.

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

We overcome by loving our enemies.
We overcome by praying for those who persecute us.
We overcome by feeding the hungry.
We overcome by clothing the naked.
We overcome by visiting those in prison.

My favourite chapter in the entire OT is Isaiah 58. He tells it like it is. We overcome...

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8 ¶ Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

All the above cannot be accomplished without sacrificing self.
Joh 15:5
And we cannot hope to overcome as Christ did except we take up our own cross and follow Him. We cannot hope to overcome and share in His victory over sin, the devil, and the world, until we die to self and surrender to Him.

Rom 12:1

This is how we gain eternal life. By so identifying ourselves with Christ's death that we partake of the same.

Rom 6:1-7

Sin becomes anathema to us. The more we associate ourselves and integrate ourselves with the cross of Calvary, the more abhorrent sin becomes to us. Conversely, the more sacred and the more precious will the laws of God become, and the more joy we obtain in surrendered obedience to them.

Rom. 6:8-14.

We become instruments of righteousness by our self sacrificial surrendering to the grace and life that God will impart to us, and we become overcomers. This is the only way to eternal life. Only through partaking of Christ's death, and assimilating His life, can we have any hope for heaven.

It sounds quite intense where you are, Brakelite. I hope you don’t get overwhelmed trying to reconcile your belief and faith in Christ with the idea of being dead to self as a requirement for conversion. I don’t experience that myself. Every day, I feel connected with the spirit of Christ. When I recognize that I’m already in that state, I spend time following its spiritual power and flow, letting it guide my day. It leads me in directions that, years ago, I would have resisted or turned away from because I wanted to stay in control. But now, when the spirit of Christ moves me—and it does—I naturally find myself thinking and acting with others in mind, offering my time and resources, just as I’m doing now by writing this to you. I feel love, and my heart is open. This is my simple understanding of being dead to sin in the new life of Christ, and over time, it becomes clearer, stronger, and more confident.

And thus I partake of/with Christ's death everyday, because he is alive in me everyday. Amen

 

[Brakelite]

I went to your denominational church to please a friend with an open mind I honestly did, all I knew about the denomination was they worshipped on a Saturday, no big deal I thought bearing in mind Rom14:5

The second week I was there I was literally shocked and stunned to see two women laughing and joking as they took the Lords name in vain, apparently unaware they were transgressing one of the commands they both insisted must be obeyed. If I didn’t care about righteous living I would not have been shocked and stunned would I. And they were by n o means the only ones transgressing that particular commandment without conscience. I had never previously witnessed such a thing in over forty years of going to various churches on Sundays.

One woman turned up for church immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under her arm, if the minister said something she approved of in the sermon she gave out a hearty ‘AMEN’ To look at her you would have thought she was the most godly of people. She too insisted you must obey the TC. A while later I found out she was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. I asled he how she could do that as she was transgressing the TC. She shrugged her shoulders and relied: ‘No ones perfect and all sin is equal. I could go on and on. I could not even turn up for a church service if I was having one affair, let alone multiple affairs. I honestly saw more flagrant transgressing of the TC in that church than any church I have previously been to. Like you, they made the statements such as the righteous will obey the TC.

And you say that, though you yourself transgress them. Paul’s message is great, die to the law and sin shall no longer be your master. Look to it, and well, I saw what the result was in that church

I'm not one that would doubt your words. There's no excuse for hypocrisy. So what I see in that anecdote is an example of where people are failing to live up to their high calling in Christ. What i don't see is any theological or biblical reason that suggests my understanding of the gospel is wrong. You have pointed out that people sin. I don't deny that. But do they have to? Is it possible to choose not to sin? Is it possible to obey God's commandments if one is walking in the Spirit and abiding in Christ?
You keep presenting testimonies that suggest it isn't possible. Yet the Scripture teaches otherwise.
What is more powerful? The Holy Spirit and the creative power of God working in you, or the carnal nature which Paul says in dead in Christ?

 

[saved by grace 101]

I'm not one that would doubt your words. There's no excuse for hypocrisy. So what I see in that anecdote is an example of where people are failing to live up to their high calling in Christ. What i don't see is any theological or biblical reason that suggests my understanding of the gospel is wrong. You have pointed out that people sin. I don't deny that. But do they have to? Is it possible to choose not to sin? Is it possible to obey God's commandments if one is walking in the Spirit and abiding in Christ?
You keep presenting testimonies that suggest it isn't possible. Yet the Scripture teaches otherwise.
What is more powerful? The Holy Spirit and the creative power of God working in you, or the carnal nature which Paul says in dead in Christ?

Glad you wouldn't doubt my words, I would never say what I did if it were not true.
Is it possible not to sin? As we all sin do we all just commit wilfull sin we do not have to commit?
No, the scriptures do NOT teach we can literally be sinless. The bible speaks of sin in two different ways, just the same as we today view sin in two different ways also:
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8
John includes himself in the we. Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the TC kills, it is the ministry of death and condemnation. He wouldn't state that if that law could faultlessly be obeyed would he. Of course, he was holding the TC to the pristene level they are set at. And you would believe, if you transgress those commands you commit sin.
Back to 1John1:8. if you asked nearly all christians if you had to be perfect in your flesh/sinless to be saved they would respond ''No'' for they know they are not sinless in the flesh
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1John3:9
Now the above cannot be taken literally can it, John has already said none are without sin, so what he does he mean in this verse?
He is referring to a lifestyle of wilfull sin, as is Paul when he states if you are a slave to sin it leads to death
Think about it, you would accept someone as a believer in your church though they were not sinless wouldn't you?
But would you accept someone as a christian who lived a wilfull lifestyle of sin? Im sure you wouldn't. I will put another post up to show you an example list of what you would have to do never to commit sin, please ponder on it

 

[saved by grace 101]

I'm not one that would doubt your words. There's no excuse for hypocrisy. So what I see in that anecdote is an example of where people are failing to live up to their high calling in Christ. What i don't see is any theological or biblical reason that suggests my understanding of the gospel is wrong. You have pointed out that people sin. I don't deny that. But do they have to? Is it possible to choose not to sin? Is it possible to obey God's commandments if one is walking in the Spirit and abiding in Christ?
You keep presenting testimonies that suggest it isn't possible. Yet the Scripture teaches otherwise.
What is more powerful? The Holy Spirit and the creative power of God working in you, or the carnal nature which Paul says in dead in Christ?

Here’s a sample list of what it would take to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment and avoid sin.:



Let’s start with the Ten Commandments:

Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Have you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

Jesus commands:

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Second greatest commandment

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including our enemies, those who may be unkind to us, persecute or harass us?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

 

[Brakelite]

It sounds quite intense where you are, Brakelite. I hope you don’t get overwhelmed trying to reconcile your belief and faith in Christ with the idea of being dead to self as a requirement for conversion. I don’t experience that myself. Every day, I feel connected with the spirit of Christ. When I recognize that I’m already in that state, I spend time following its spiritual power and flow, letting it guide my day. It leads me in directions that, years ago, I would have resisted or turned away from because I wanted to stay in control. But now, when the spirit of Christ moves me—and it does—I naturally find myself thinking and acting with others in mind, offering my time and resources, just as I’m doing now by writing this to you. I feel love, and my heart is open. This is my simple understanding of being dead to sin in the new life of Christ, and over time, it becomes clearer, stronger, and more confident.

And thus I partake of/with Christ's death everyday, because he is alive in me everyday. Amen

Just as it ought to be. But have you read all 101's posts? In every one he casts doubt, not that such a life as you live, and I, isn't possible, but whether such a life can be in harmony with the law of God. The scriptures testify that such a thing, harmony between the law, the gospel, and His people, is the actual end goal of God's redemptive power.

“3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:3-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

What is the righteousness of the law without obedience? Does not the righteousness of Christ imputed have a practical experiential fruit having been imparted?

“If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
With the above in mind, surely one cannot think it impossible, or even optional. Even that itself is a commandment right?

You know, I'm not talking about these things from a perspective of having attained perfection. This life, this process of sanctification, will continue until the day I die or am translated at the second coming. In the meantime, I'm just gonna let the love of Jesus work and do what it knows best.

 

[JustMe]

Just as it ought to be. But have you read all 101's posts? In every one he casts doubt, not that such a life as you live, and I, isn't possible, but whether such a life can be in harmony with the law of God. The scriptures testify that such a thing, harmony between the law, the gospel, and His people, is the actual end goal of God's redemptive power.

“3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:3-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

What is the righteousness of the law without obedience? Does not the righteousness of Christ imputed have a practical experiential fruit having been imparted?

“If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
With the above in mind, surely one cannot think it impossible, or even optional. Even that itself is a commandment right?

You know, I'm not talking about these things from a perspective of having attained perfection. This life, this process of sanctification, will continue until the day I die or am translated at the second coming. In the meantime, I'm just gonna let the love of Jesus work and do what it knows best.

Truthfully, I will have to ponder more about you version of 'harmony' between the law and grace given as part of the gospel. On its surface as I read your post, I might not agree with your premise? I really have to understand your term 'harmonize' more clearly.

Now what I read can be expanded and explained this way:

The law and grace are not opposing forces but are harmonized within the gospel as complementary aspects of God’s redemptive plan. The law reveals God’s holy standards and exposes human sinfulness, serving as a "guardian" until Christ came to fulfill it, thereby revealing our need for grace. It highlights our inability to achieve righteousness through human effort, as no one can perfectly keep the law except Jesus Christ. The law was given to only Israel initially, as a temporary measure until faith in Christ came, and it was never intended to be a means of salvation through works.

Today, we no longer focus on the law as it was before Christ. We assess its value and, upon reflection, understand that it holds no power for those living under grace now. In this way, the law and grace coexist, with grace being the greater gift from God and the prevailing principle today. We do not carry the law as burdensome weights; instead, we embrace the freedom found in Christ. The law and the grace that reflects its essence are not the ultimate aim or the life purpose of a believer in Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

Today, we no longer focus on the law as it was before Christ. We assess its value and, upon reflection, understand that it holds no power for those living under grace now. In this way, the law and grace coexist, with grace being the greater gift from God and the prevailing principle today. We do not carry the law as burdensome weights; instead, we embrace the freedom found in Christ. The law and the grace that reflects its essence are not the ultimate aim or the life purpose of a believer in Christ.

Good post, thanks.
This bit reminded me of a scripture.

Romans 11:4-6 NIV
And what was God’s answer to him?
“I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[a]
5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works;
if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Just as it ought to be. But have you read all 101's posts? In every one he casts doubt, not that such a life as you live, and I, isn't possible, but whether such a life can be in harmony with the law of God.

Do we then make void the law by this faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law, God forbid: yea, we establish the law Rom3:31 Its good to actually read what is posted to you. But you will never be in perfect harmony with it, because as Paul told born again christians in the present tense: The letter of the TC kills, it is the ministry of death and condemnation. In my view, proving your righteousness by obeying law Paul termed as such, leads to only two possibilities, becoming crushed by your faliures to obey that law, or being hard nosed and phariseeical, convincing yourself you do obey the law when you do not

 

[saved by grace 101]

Just as it ought to be. But have you read all 101's posts? In every one he casts doubt, not that such a life as you live, and I, isn't possible, but whether such a life can be in harmony with the law of God. The scriptures testify that such a thing, harmony between the law, the gospel, and His people, is the actual end goal of God's redemptive power.

“3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:3-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

What is the righteousness of the law without obedience? Does not the righteousness of Christ imputed have a practical experiential fruit having been imparted?

“If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
With the above in mind, surely one cannot think it impossible, or even optional. Even that itself is a commandment right?

You know, I'm not talking about these things from a perspective of having attained perfection. This life, this process of sanctification, will continue until the day I die or am translated at the second coming. In the meantime, I'm just gonna let the love of Jesus work and do what it knows best.

Without wishing to prolong a discussion that may have surpassed its usefulness.

You transgress the TC don’t you, if we are to be completely honest you do not even try and obey each and every command of Christ in the gospels, and you also transgress the second greatest commandment. And you are the same as everyone else. But, you still believe you are in a righteous state before God don’t you. Therefore, you believe you are in a righteous state inspite of the fact you commit sin/transgress the law. You have a righteousness of faith in Christ.

Now how is that any different from what I have been telling you?



What you may find repulsive is the idea people will take this too far and believe they can act however they like, ignore how God wants them to live as the bottom line is righteousness of faith IN Christ for all of us, not obeying the law.

I would actually find that repulsive too. And it cannot happen if someone is genuinely born again of the Spirit for applicable law has been placed in their heart, meaning in their heart they desire to live as God wants them to live. It’s a new covenant now, not the old one.

So to sum up, because you desire in your heart to live as God wants you to live, because you do not want in your heart to live a life of sin, you believe you are righteous before God inspite of your imperfections/sin/transgressions of the law.

Well that’s the new covenant! Heb10:15-18

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

What do you reverence? - misplaced worship?

Should we reverence anything but God? What sort of things are reverenced inappropriately? What behaviors of others illicit indignation on your part? Due to their perceived irreverence. Is it blasphemy to speak irreverently about things other than God? The church, the Bible, a...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Jack]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Why do you quote the Bible that you said, "no wonder I don't trust the Bible"?

 

[St. SteVen]

Why do you quote the Bible that you said, "no wonder I don't trust the Bible"?

That wasn't to be taken literately.

 

[Jack]

That wasn't to be taken literately.

Oh, you speak in parables?

Quoting STV: " This is Freakin' nuts. (no wonder I don't trust the Bible)"

No Christian would make such a comment!

 

[Wick Stick]

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

I think it started quite a bit earlier than that.

The prophet Jeremiah is already talking about a New Covenant in the 7th century BC. Likewise, the people in Jerusalem had forgotten that the Law even existed until King Josiah re-instated its observance, also in the 7th century BC.

My view is that the Mosaic covenant was meant to be a punishment on the Israelites, and God's plan was always to revert back to the covenant with Abraham. I find it sad but ironic that the Jews chose to embrace their punishment for all eternity.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think it started quite a bit earlier than that.

The prophet Jeremiah is already talking about a New Covenant in the 7th century BC. Likewise, the people in Jerusalem had forgotten that the Law even existed until King Josiah re-instated its observance, also in the 7th century BC.

My view is that the Mosaic covenant was meant to be a punishment on the Israelites, and God's plan was always to revert back to the covenant with Abraham. I find it sad but ironic that the Jews chose to embrace their punishment for all eternity.

your view is no sufficient to say the least .
The law was added BECAUSE of t rangressions ,
TILL the promised ONE would come .
THE law was not meant as a punishment to ISRAEL .
IT was meant to be KEPT . YES .
But within it we see To the hearer and the doer it always wo rked GOOD .
Course all fall short , ITS WHY they had the blood sacrfices for remission of sins .
But even that was not counted , WHEN ONE did so f rom a wicked non repentant heart .
You see the LAW of GOD is HOLY . The true law SPIRITUAL .
GOD always desired their obediance and the good of them .
IF ONLY there were a heart in this people to KEEP my commands . you should reread deut and other places too .
And now a word.
Later recorded in the prophets .
AND i will make a new convenant with them . I WILL WRITE MY LAWS upon their hearts in their minds
And i will BE THIER GOD and they shall be my people .
JESUS the CHRIST . HE is the answer . But beware the cry of the ecumiencal harlot of all harlots .
For by her love she has led them into REBELLION against GOD and HIS CHRIST .
OH yes she has sold her love . And all of the world shall embrace this love . FOR IT is of the world , NOT GOD .
Its love is deadly to the soul of any who drinks of that cup .

 

[Wick Stick]

you should reread deut

I've actually been studying it recently. That's what leads me to say that it was intended to be punitive.

Deuteronomy enumerates a series of blessings and curses on Israel. The blessings are predicated on obedience. The curses on disobedience. Before the book is through, Moses already tells us that Israel is going to fall short and all the curses are going to fall upon them.

Perhaps you might benefit from a re-reading?