The Decoy Gospel

[Hidden In Him]

"When we use the purpose driven-Bible strip mine model

Strip mine model, LoL.

When we start changing the story to use it for our lives and interjecting ourselves into the text we are engaging in what is known as "narcigesis"; which is reading oneself into the Biblical text."

I think there is a proper way to read ourselves into the text, but it must be done by first setting aside presumptuousness, in both interpretation and our assumptions about ourselves. I consider myself good at the former, but am I at the latter? I often pray that the Lord lets me live out the words of the Biblical writers in real life (as much as is possible), so that I understand them experientially and not just conceptually.

But this is so far beyond the strip mine model that the resemblance is night and day. Those who water-down the word to make it "reader-friendly" simply eliminate all chance of true, Spirit-inspired self-examination.

 

[mjrhealth]

After that the cross carries us. Then we are dead in ourselves and Christ is the power of our walk.

The cross carries nothing, the cross does nothing in us, all the work that is done is done by Christ and the Holy Spirit, we eat of Him He feeds and waters that seed of the Spirit in us, nothing to do with the cross, it is religion that place those burdens on mens shoulders, to keep them enslaved.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

He never came top weigh us down .

 

[Episkopos]

The cross carries nothing, the cross does nothing in us, all the work that is done is done by Christ and the Holy Spirit, we eat of Him He feeds and waters that seed of the Spirit in us, nothing to do with the cross, it is religion that place those burdens on mens shoulders, to keep them enslaved.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

He never came top weigh us down .

“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your quotes of Ignatius merely reveal how quickly the church began to descend into apostasy after the early church apostles died. And Paul warned this would be so. Praise God that elsewhere there were faithful servants willing to carry the torch of truth throughout the world. Relying on man for affirmation is akin to trusting in the devil's approval.

I think what needs to be taken into account with the early church is that Satan was throwing SO much heresy at them that there was a reversion back to hearing what the established leaders were saying, just as the later NT writers advised adhering to the teachings of the apostles. The thing is, this was actually never the emphasis of the apostle Paul. To establish it would take several scriptural references I don't have the energy to look up, but repeatedly he urged the churches to depend upon the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as their Head, and that they had no need that any man teach them so long as the Spirit dominated their meetings.

Developing a dependency upon men instead of God was the first great mistake of the early church.

 

[mjrhealth]

“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20)

Amen to that, died buried and risen in Him.

 

[mjrhealth]

I think what needs to be taken into account with the early church is that Satan was throwing SO much heresy at them that there was a reversion back to hearing what the established leaders were saying, just as the later NT writers advised adhering to the teachings of the apostles. The thing is, this was actually never the emphasis of the apostle Paul. To establish it would take several scriptural references I don't have the energy to look up, but repeatedly he urged the churches to depend upon the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as their Head, and that they had no need that any man teach them so long as the Spirit dominated their meetings.

Developing a dependency upon men instead of God was the first great mistake of the early church.

Still is today, as is leaning on ones own understanding..

 

[Brakelite]

To dismiss Ignatius and Polycarp as apostates

I didn't say they were apostates. My meaning was that some of their ideas revealed the beginning of a fall into apostasy. The church which sprung from their teachings continued to fall.
Those so called "early church fathers" promoted so prominently by the Catholic Church were not the only theologians and Christian scholars and church leaders across the known world who established mission oriented scripturally based loving and purposeful bodies of men and women representing Christ to the world. The Roman church my friend is not, and never was the be all of Christianity in the world.
There were dozens of great scholars very early on who cleaved to truth and spread the gospel by the power of the holy Spirit as opposed to the power of the force of arms so popular with the bishops of the papacy.

 

[Philip James]

Hello brakelight,

I didn't say they were apostates.

And now you're hedging...

My meaning was that some of their ideas revealed the beginning of a fall into apostasy.

Which ideas would those be? The structure of the Church and the stewardship of 'the divine mysteries' they received from the apostles..

The church which sprung from their teachings continued to fall.

Fall from what to what? Ignatius' letters are recognizably Orthodox and Catholic...

Those so called "early church fathers" promoted so prominently by the Catholic Church were not the only theologians and Christian scholars and church leaders across the known world who established mission oriented scripturally based loving and purposeful bodies of men and women representing Christ to the world.

Examples? Where are these 'bodies' now?

"Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

The Roman church my friend is not, and never was the be all of Christianity in the world.

Have I ever said it was? If Rome is your stumbling block, then come to the Feast with Alexandria, come with Constantinople, but come!

Peace be with you!

 

[Brakelite]

Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

True. But not yet. The tares and wheat grow together until the harvest.

If Rome is your stumbling block, then come to the Feast with Alexandria, come with Constantinople, but come!

Why? What can the allegorical sophistries of Origen and the false Trinity of Alexandria do for me? And what can the ritualism and sacramentalism of Constantinople and Rome offer? To what advantage would it be for me to forsake a living loving relationship with Jesus to enter back into Babylon wherein is nothing but deceit, superstition, idolatry, and meaningless mummery?

Examples? Where are these 'bodies' now?

Everywhere else. All around you if you would but look outside the myopic revisionist histories and realities your priests have taught you.

 

[quietthinker]

God gives us ample warning....he gives us direction. If unheeded darkness grows deeper. Jesus has counselled us to be on our guard, to watch and not be drawn into the seductive theories of the so called 'wise' men.
We have the story of Pharaoh in Moses time as a reminder of where persistent resistance leads....utter destruction!

 

[Philip James]

Jesus has counselled us to be on our guard, to watch and not be drawn into the seductive theories of the so called 'wise' men.

Indeed. As has St. John:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Peace be with you!

 

[mailmandan]

The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

I've heard numerous decoy (counterfeit) gospels over the years:

Saved by grace through faith "and" works.
Initially saved by grace through faith, then salvation is "maintained" by works.
Saved by grace through faith plus "these" works and just not "those" works.
Salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
Salvation through "sinless perfection." Those who believe this are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

All of these counterfeit gospels "add" works to the gospel and exalt man's performance over the cross. *Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. *No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. The gospel is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. The apostle Paul clearly explains why people do not believe the gospel in 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

 

[Episkopos]

The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

I've heard numerous decoy (counterfeit) gospels over the years:

Saved by grace through faith "and" works.
Initially saved by grace through faith, then salvation is "maintained" by works.
Saved by grace through faith plus "these" works and just not "those" works.
Salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
Salvation through "sinless perfection." Those who believe this are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

All of these counterfeit gospels "add" works to the gospel and exalt man's performance over the cross. *Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. *No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. The gospel is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. The apostle Paul clearly explains why people do not believe the gospel in 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

You have swallowed the decoy gospel hook line and sinker. God is not interested in you having a correct belief. That is Gnosticism. A saving faith or belief? According to whom?

The death of Jesus is not good news...just for the devil. What is good news is that God wants to give us His life. But that life means we must first give up our own. It is a life for a life. Now for a selfish self-centered person that is not good news. For the rich and worldly that is not good news. But for the lowly and downcast...it is.

God cares about what you do with what you have been given. Now the devil HATES that God would be pleased with people in Spirit and truth...so he attacks the good works of good people...and tries to turn men into religious ideologues who make God into a Rumpelstiltskin stickler for getting names and beliefs right.

The devil hates the true grace that makes us walk like Jesus. No he wants people to put their assurance in the idea of a carnal blind grace so that they can exploit Jesus for His blood to cover up their own lack of real commitment to God and His kingdom. These seek only to be "covered"...in a great cosmic coverup.

Jesus becomes as a genie to these. He becomes the lamb of the religious...taking away judgment and authority away from God so they can claim righteousness for themselves.

Paul condemns this as "another gospel."

There is no power in the decoy gospel...it just makes sinners feel more relaxed IN their sins.

 

[mailmandan]

You have swallowed the decoy gospel hook line and sinker. God is not interested in you having a correct belief. That is Gnosticism. A saving faith or belief? According to whom?

It's you who has swallowed the decoy gospel of works salvation and sinless perfection hook line and sinker. Saving belief is according to Scripture. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 4:5; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

*1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.

God cares about what you do with what you have been given.

Of course He does, yet salvation is about what Christ has already DONE and is not about what you DO. (Romans 3:24-28) We could never DO enough to earn the free gift of eternal life and have actually earned just the opposite. (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

Now the devil HATES that God would be pleased with people in Spirit and truth...so he attacks the good works of good people...and tries to turn men into religious ideologues who make God into a Rumpelstiltskin stickler for getting names and beliefs right.

The devil hates that God is pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE so he works hard at keeping the minds of man blinded from the truth and keeping man in UNBELIEF. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

The devil hates the true grace that makes us walk like Jesus.

The devil hates true grace that saves us through faith. (Romans 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9) We should all strive to walk as Jesus walked, yet we are not saved based on the merits of our walk which "follows" having been saved through faith, which would result in salvation by works.

No he wants people to put their assurance in the idea of a carnal blind grace so that they can exploit Jesus for His blood to cover up their own lack of real commitment to God and His kingdom. These seek only to be "covered"...in a great cosmic coverup.

This sounds like a typical straw man argument from a spiritual narcissist who believes he is "holier than thou" and looks down on others who he believes doesn't measure up to his own personal standards. Who are you to judge believers in their commitment to God and His kingdom?

Jesus becomes as a genie to these. He becomes the lamb of the religious...taking away judgment and authority away from God so they can claim righteousness for themselves.

Our righteousness is not a righteousness of our own, but is the imputed righteousness of God which is by faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9)

Paul condemns this as "another gospel."

Paul condemns the perverted gospel of "works salvation." (Galatians 1:6-9) Paul does not condemn the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)

There is no power in the decoy gospel...it just makes sinners feel more relaxed IN their sins.

Another typical straw man argument from someone who peddles a decoy gospel. Your gospel makes you feel good about SELF because it's a self righteous gospel. It also causes you to view yourself as "holier than thou" and look down on others.

 

[Episkopos]

It's you who has swallowed the decoy gospel of works salvation and sinless perfection hook line and sinker. Saving belief is according to Scripture. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 4:5; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

*1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.

Of course He does, yet salvation is about what Christ has already DONE and is not about what you DO. (Romans 3:24-28) We could never DO enough to earn the free gift of eternal life and have actually earned just the opposite. (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

The devil hates that God is pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE so he works hard at keeping the minds of man blinded from the truth and keeping man in UNBELIEF. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

The devil hates true grace that saves us through faith. (Romans 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9) We should all strive to walk as Jesus walked, yet we are not saved based on the merits of our walk which "follows" having been saved through faith, which would result in salvation by works.

This sounds like a typical straw man argument from a spiritual narcissist who believes he is "holier than thou" and looks down on others who he believes doesn't measure up to his own personal standards. Who are you to judge believers in their commitment to God and His kingdom?

Our righteousness is not a righteousness of our own, but is the imputed righteousness of God which is by faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9)

Paul condemns the perverted gospel of "works salvation." (Galatians 1:6-9) Paul does not condemn the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)

Another typical straw man argument from someone who peddles a decoy gospel. Your gospel makes you feel good about SELF because it's a self righteous gospel. It also causes you to view yourself as "holier than thou" and look down on others.

There is so much confusion in your responses that it would take a LONG time to sort out all the error. One does not become this indoctrinated over night. It requires error built upon error....built upon more error.

You don't understand what works are for. And you are mistaken in saying that I preach a works salvation. It is a salvation that actually works.

Did the early believers raise the dead? Is that a works salvation?

Do you believe in miracles? Is that not also works?

Do you believe the bible and the power of the gospel for the grace that is over sin?

You don't know the power of the gospel...just the rhetoric of a decoy gospel that indoctrinates religious ideologues so that they can claim to be holy without any real holiness or truth.

This is where you disconnect because of your god that has no power. You would bring sin INTO Christ by claiming to be IN Christ as a sinner. No fear of God, no humility. no respect...just arrogance and presumption. Just save yourself.


In Christ is NO sin. You espouse a sinful Christ so that you can justify yourself...as if God expects you to sin and is angry with they who enter into Christ as overcomers to be as He is in the world.

So you are fully confused and have made God unholy. And you do so to justify yourself IN your sins.

Just because I don't justify myself by anything I believe doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou. That's backwards as all your reasoning is. You justify yourself IN your sins because you believe in your own belief about God.

Stick with delivering mail...I mean really.

 

[Candidus]

There is so much confusion in your responses that it would take a LONG time to sort out all the error. One does not become this indoctrinated over night. It requires error built upon error....built upon more error.

You don't understand what works are for. And you are mistaken in saying that I preach a works salvation. It is a salvation that actually works.

Did the early believers raise the dead? Is that a works salvation?

Do you believe in miracles? Is that not also works?

Do you believe the bible and the power of the gospel for the grace that is over sin?

You don't know the power of the gospel...just the rhetoric of a decoy gospel that indoctrinates religious ideologues so that they can claim to be holy without any real holiness or truth.

This is where you disconnect because of your god that has no power. You would bring sin INTO Christ by claiming to be IN Christ as a sinner. No fear of God, no humility. no respect...just arrogance and presumption. Just save yourself.


In Christ is NO sin. You espouse a sinful Christ so that you can justify yourself...as if God expects you to sin and is angry with they who enter into Christ as overcomers to be as He is in the world.

So you are fully confused and have made God unholy. And you do so to justify yourself IN your sins.

Just because I don't justify myself by anything I believe doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou. That's backwards as all your reasoning is. You justify yourself IN your sins because you believe in your own belief about God.

Stick with delivering mail...I mean really.

Strange... somehow one or two verses erase the command of "works" in Scripture to blur out or disappear! It is clear, he who abides in the Vine WILL bear much fruit. There is no such thing as a fruitless\workless Christian!

Ironically, those that demand a workless/fruitless salvation, demand the "work" of believing "correctly" as they do, or you are not saved... odd.

 

[Episkopos]

Strange... somehow one or two verses erase the command of "works" in Scripture to blur out or disappear! It is clear, he who abides in the Vine WILL bear much fruit. There is no such thing as a fruitless\workless Christian!

Ironically, those that demand a workless/fruitless salvation, demand the "work" of believing "correctly" as they do, or you are not saved... odd.

It serves well to keep people out of the actual race of faith...and stops them from entering the kingdom of God...which is seen as a work. So they don't enter in and they try stopping others by regurgitating the same errors from their own indoctrination.

 

[mailmandan]

There is so much confusion in your responses that it would take a LONG time to sort out all the error. One does not become this indoctrinated over night. It requires error built upon error....built upon more error.

You don't understand what works are for. And you are mistaken in saying that I preach a works salvation. It is a salvation that actually works.

Did the early believers raise the dead? Is that a works salvation?

Do you believe in miracles? Is that not also works?

Do you believe the bible and the power of the gospel for the grace that is over sin?

You don't know the power of the gospel...just the rhetoric of a decoy gospel that indoctrinates religious ideologues so that they can claim to be holy without any real holiness or truth.

This is where you disconnect because of your god that has no power. You would bring sin INTO Christ by claiming to be IN Christ as a sinner. No fear of God, no humility. no respect...just arrogance and presumption. Just save yourself.

In Christ is NO sin. You espouse a sinful Christ so that you can justify yourself...as if God expects you to sin and is angry with they who enter into Christ as overcomers to be as He is in the world.

So you are fully confused and have made God unholy. And you do so to justify yourself IN your sins.

Just because I don't justify myself by anything I believe doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou. That's backwards as all your reasoning is. You justify yourself IN your sins because you believe in your own belief about God.

Stick with delivering mail...I mean really.

LOL! More strawman arguments and slander from a spiritual narcissist. You can have your self exalting performance based decoy gospel. I’ll stick with delivering the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)

 

[mailmandan]

Strange... somehow one or two verses erase the command of "works" in Scripture to blur out or disappear! It is clear, he who abides in the Vine WILL bear much fruit. There is no such thing as a fruitless\workless Christian!

Ironically, those that demand a workless/fruitless salvation, demand the "work" of believing "correctly" as they do, or you are not saved... odd.

I never said there was such a thing as a fruitless/workless Christian, which is a straw man argument, yet we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) All genuine believers/Christians are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

 

[Candidus]

LOL! More strawman arguments and slander from a spiritual narcissist. You can have your self exalting performance based decoy gospel. I’ll stick with delivering the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)

An ad hominem attack is an answer?

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."

“as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” A dead faith never saved anybody.