The Decoy Gospel

[Philip James]

Yet those who honor a bishop in the counterfeit/ false world church, are not honoring God.

Thus the importance of remaining within the community of the apostles..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Peace!

 

[Joseph77]

The false community, world wide, is huge, and calls itself a lot......

true, it is a lot.....

but it is not true. It is not in Jesus.

It is counterfeit - a decoy, to trap souls, and keep them on the wide trail to destruction.

 

[marks]

No. They were not "churches" at all.

There is almost no resemblance at all with the Ekklesia assemblies in the Bible with the churches today or even after a few centuries.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

The number of people gathered together is not what defines a true church (that is, assembly of believers) from something otherwise.

Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. The number of people gathered together is not what defines a true church (that is, assembly of believers) from something otherwise.

Clarifying.

 

[marks]

he that doeth aught without the knowledge of the
bishop rendereth service to the devil.

It never ceases to amaze me what some people have thought!

Seriously? I take a plate of food to the widow across the street, but I haven't checked with an overseer first, so I'm serving Satan? I don't believe that is true for a moment!

Carry it out further . . . I share my faith with a friend . . . I haven't spoken to the 'bishop', I'm serving Satan? I have some friends over to read the Bible together and discuss it . . . Serving Satan?

And my wife and I share communion together, at home, quite apart from your bishop . . . and as we pray together, remembering Jesus' death together, celebrating in our deliverance from sin and death . . . we are serving Satan.

But with this man's blessing, all is well!

I've just never understood that sort of thinking.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thus the importance of remaining within the community of the apostles..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Peace!

And in this I must be included. That is, according to your idea of apostolic succession.

The 12 are gone. There is no community with Those apostles. Missionaries are today's apostles. At least, in my understanding! The "sent ones". That's what an apostle is.

Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

It never ceases to amaze me what some people have thought!

Remember who replying to, the group of "some people" are subject to the prince of the power of the air, living as sons of disobedience with the rest of the world unsaved.
It ceases to amaze - and yet still is great grief and sorrow, for the loss of souls.

 

[marks]

Remember who replying to, the group of "some people" are subject to the prince of the power of the air, living as sons of disobedience with the rest of the world unsaved.
It ceases to amaze - and yet still is great grief and sorrow, for the loss of souls.

I don't know what you are saying here . . .

 

[Joseph77]

I don't know what you are saying here . . .

All groups are permitted to carry on conversations/ discussions/ create threads and posts here.

 

[Philip James]

Hello marks,

It never ceases to amaze me what some people have thought!

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

But with this man's blessing, all is well!

I've just never understood that sort of thinking.

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

The 12 are gone. There is no community with Those apostles

Brother, you couldn't be more wrong. The communion of the saints is real!

We share in the One loaf, the One cup, that Jesus gave to the apostles..

One cannot claim these thing for themselves, they must be received from those who have them give...

Peace be with you!

 

[marks]

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

That statement is not about making one assembly the "only true church".

Brother, you couldn't be more wrong. The communion of the saints is real!

I had written . . .

The 12 are gone. There is no community with Those apostles

To which you reply the communion of the saints is real, which is something different.

The 12 are gone from this world, and there are not another "12" here. So when I say that we are not in a community with Apostles, who are gone, this in no wise denies the communion of the saints, though you would seem to want to make it appear that I do.

We share in the One loaf, the One cup, that Jesus gave to the apostles..

One cannot claim these thing for themselves, they must be received from those who have them give...

Peace be with you!

Restating . . . when my wife and I share communion we are serving Satan in your words.

No, I do not agree with you. As often as you do this . . . As often as you are allowed to do this . . . As often as the Bishop permits it . . . but Absolutely Not if he does not!!! Which is written?

This is why I consider this doctrine despotic and unscriptural, making one man to lord over another.

Claiming things for themselves . . . Sure, of course, that's not what I'm doing.

As often as you do this. We do this. So there it is.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

No, I do not agree with you. As often as you do this . . . As often as you are allowed to do this . . . As often as the Bishop permits it . . . but Absolutely Not if he does not!!! Which is written?

From the very beginning, presiding over the Eucharist was restricted to those who had been ordained to the presbytery , through the laying on of hands.

Here's some more from St. ignatius:

Let that be held a valid
eucharist which is under the bishop or one to whom he
shall have committed it.


It is not me but the Church, established by Christ, through the apostles that you disagree with.

All of the 2000 yr old apostolic communities teach this. There are none that do not...

Is it so hard to submit yourself to your brethren?

Peace be with you!

 

[marks]

Is it so hard to submit yourself to your brethren?

But that's not what is at issue.

Why does this need to be the turning point? "You won't submit to my bishop's lordship!" Isn't that your real complaint?

It is not me but the Church, established by Christ, through the apostles that you disagree with.

Your church teaches that. However, the Apostles, well, I have the book of their teachings, and I can't find it there.

You haven't tried to show it there, so I'm thinking you can't find this in the Bible either. Your church teaches it, and has for a long time, but it's not in the Bible, which includes the Apostle's teaching, that which came from God Himself. The written record which is meant to settle such matters, I think. We need to let it, in my opinion.

If we exactly followed the Bible, we would not be in disagreement on this, or any other point.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

From the very beginning, presiding over the Eucharist was restricted to those who had been ordained to the presbytery , through the laying on of hands.

Here's some more from St. ignatius:

Let that be held a valid
eucharist which is under the bishop or one to whom he
shall have committed it.


It is not me but the Church, established by Christ, through the apostles that you disagree with.

All of the 2000 yr old apostolic communities teach this. There are none that do not...

Is it so hard to submit yourself to your brethren?

Peace be with you!

Here we go again, is this not about deception, and here it is right before our eyes.

 

[mjrhealth]

If we exactly followed the Bible, we would not be in disagreement on this, or any other point.

If all men followed Christ no man would be in disagreement,

 

[Philip James]

I have the book of their teachings, and I can't find it there.

Acts 14:23


They appointed presbyters for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

Titus 1:4-5

to Titus, my true child in our common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior.

For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you,

Note here that Paul has ordained Titus as the bishop of Crete, and it is Titus who ordains the presbytery in Crete.

Ignatius is one of these men ordained by the apostles as Bishop of the Church in Antioch...

Polycarp is another ordained by apostles and was made Bishop of the Church in Smyrna.

Polycarp says this of Ignatius:


The letters of Ignatius which were sent to us by him, and others as
many as we had by us, we send unto you, according as ye gave charge;
the which are subjoined to this letter; from which ye will be able to
gain great advantage. For they comprise faith and endurance and every
kind of edification, which pertaineth unto our Lord.

(To the Philippians)

And of course Jesus says this of Smyrna:

"To the angel of the church in Smyrna, write this: " 'The first and the last, who once died but came to life, says this:

"I know your tribulation and poverty, but you are rich. I know the slander of those who claim to be Jews and are not, but rather are members of the assembly of Satan.

Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

So then Jesus commends Smyrna and Smyrna commends Antioch...

Do you need all the verses on being obedient to those who have been placed over us?

The truth is established on the testimony of 2 witnesses...

The Church in Rome and the Church in Alexandria are 2 2000 year old witnesses to this... Where is the 2000 year old community that says otherwise?

Peace!

 

[marks]

Acts 14:23


They appointed presbyters for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

Titus 1:4-5

to Titus, my true child in our common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior.

For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you,

Note here that Paul has ordained Titus as the bishop of Crete, and it is Titus who ordains the presbytery in Crete.

Ignatius is one of these men ordained by the apostles as Bishop of the Church in Antioch...

Polycarp is another ordained by apostles and was made Bishop of the Church in Smyrna.

Polycarp says this of Ignatius:


The letters of Ignatius which were sent to us by him, and others as
many as we had by us, we send unto you, according as ye gave charge;
the which are subjoined to this letter; from which ye will be able to
gain great advantage. For they comprise faith and endurance and every
kind of edification, which pertaineth unto our Lord.

(To the Philippians)

And of course Jesus says this of Smyrna:

"To the angel of the church in Smyrna, write this: " 'The first and the last, who once died but came to life, says this:

"I know your tribulation and poverty, but you are rich. I know the slander of those who claim to be Jews and are not, but rather are members of the assembly of Satan.

Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

So then Jesus commends Smyrna and Smyrna commends Antioch...

Do you need all the verses on being obedient to those who have been placed over us?

The truth is established on the testimony of 2 witnesses...

The Church in Rome and the Church in Alexandria are 2 2000 year old witnesses to this... Where is the 2000 year old community that says otherwise?

Peace!

Aren't your church teachers to be teaching Biblical doctrine instead of adding to it?

You may appeal to the authority of your church leaders, however, I'm appealing to the actual teaching of the Apostles as inspired by God to write.

And I really think that these things needlessly divide those who should be one.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you need all the verses on being obedient to those who have been placed over us?

I have no issue with those who are over me. But not according to teachings that do not come from Scripture. And especially when something so strongly seems to me to actually go against the Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

2. The gospel is that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh to save us from our sins

He has "saved" us from our sins.

 

[Brakelite]

Because of indoctrination and the acceptance of an ideological filter that the human mind latches onto...the bible is clearly NOT ENOUGH to dislodge the lie and set people free in many cases.

Even apart from being baptized in the Spirit to experience the presence of God in reality ...we need honesty, humility and reverence for God in order to be sure we aren't colluding with the enemy of the souls of men. The devil caters to the flesh. And a carnal person thinks as a carnal man. Who are we really listening to?

The younger the person is in the faith, the more drastic the deviation from the true gospel can be without raising any suspicions. As a person gets more life experience and real knowledge of God...the errors tend to be more subtle....more difficult to discern.

But the truth always sets us free.

A favourite ploy of the devil is to turn the truth inside out....to make up down and good bad.
Imagine a room with black and white tiles in a pattern on the floor. Now while you sleep the enemy comes in and changes them all to make the pattern opposite...but still black and white (so where the black tiles were the white ones now are).

Would a person notice that the floor is completely opposite to what is was before?

This goes to illustrate how difficult it can be for a novice to discern the truth....compared to a scheme that uses all the same words but with an exact opposite meaning.

So far so good.

Or we can honour Him by believing Him to be all-powerful and sovereign.

Becoming a little concerned. I always start to worry when people speak of God's sovereignty and power, as if God uses His sovereignty and power in drawing mankind into His kingdom. Jesus revealed the true nature of the Godhead... Of a Father who gave His own precious Son to become one with the human race. This is not a picture of an all powerful sovereign God imposing His will upon man. But hey, perhaps if I read further....