The Decoy Gospel

[CharismaticLady]

Amen! Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

To "impute" is in the sense of account, reckoning. To charge to one's account. Other translations say, "credits" - (NASB) "counts" - (ESV) "reckons" - (RSV) yet some people still prefer to disregard "imputed" righteousness for "imparted" righteousness, then make it about works salvation. I ran into that issue prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church. Other verses also support imputed, credited, reckoned, accounted.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Romans 4:9 - Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

Galatians 3:6 - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. :)

Do you consider imputed righteousness to mean you are not righteous, but Christ is covering you so your unrighteousness isn't seen by God? Or do you mean something else?

 

[marks]

The decoy gospel seeks to justify non-spiritual people while yet in their fallen natures...

. . . Who justifies the ungodly . . .

Of course not to leave them there . . .

. . . the one who has died is justified away from sin . . .

But that's what God does.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you consider imputed righteousness to mean you are not righteous, but Christ is covering you so you unrighteousness isn't seen by God? Or do you mean something else?

God both declares us righteous, and recreates us righteous.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

It's right there!

God justifies the ungodly, but that is only the beginning of the scandal of grace! His faith, yet being ungodly, is accounted for righteous by the One Who speaks things into being.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am not sure where people get transfer if character from

There is a "transfer" of righteousness, and I think people's objection is that this "calling someone righteous" doesn't change their character, and if they are ungodly, how do you call that righteous?

I think the answer to this question is in the fact of our rebirth, that we are not only declared righteous, but in our rebirth, we are recreated righteous.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

You think it is just a cover-up of sin, so you can pass for righteous in the sight of God. That is a false doctrine. How many scriptures does it take for you to understand that God is HOLY, and there will be no one committing sin and thinking it is hidden in heaven.

As I said before for one who is supposed to be perfect you really seem to have a lot of trouble with sin, And you have no idea of grace, But if you wish to conintue to put yokes around the necks of men, that you do in opposition to Christ, How do you think those who have being before God and Christ even now Get ther, do you think they do it in sinless perfection, no they can stand there because they have put on His righteousness, they have nothing to boast of but Christ crucified, not, Look at me God im not like all those other sinners,

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus came TO the flesh to save us away FROM the flesh.

What has the flesh to do with Christ, it is dead to Him. As for the real gospel,

It is by grace you are saved by faith it is a gift, not by works that any man should boast.

Romans4.4 Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describes the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

But fight Christ if you must, His grace is sufficient for most, it ceratinly is for Him

 

[mjrhealth]

This makes me wonder what people suppose me to be by my picture!:

Good question, Christ didnt come to scare people,

Suffer not the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven. and the other one,

[UKJV] Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except all of you be converted, and become as little children, all of you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Enoch111]

Romans 4 talks of the end of the law, but nothing about the Spirit. It is only partial information in the middle of an 8 chapter teaching! The New Covenant is the ministry of the Spirit. The Spirit does away with SIN. It is not just a cover-up

You are so sadly confused, it is not even funny. Are you prepared to go right back TO SQUARE ONE and start learning Gospel truth? Or would you rather hang on to your misconceptions, and feel smug about it?

 

[marks]

As I said before for one who is supposed to be perfect you really seem to have a lot of trouble with sin, And you have no idea of grace, But if you wish to conintue to put yokes around the necks of men, that you do in opposition to Christ, How do you think those who have being before God and Christ even now Get ther, do you think they do it in sinless perfection, no they can stand there because they have put on His righteousness, they have nothing to boast of but Christ crucified, not, Look at me God im not like all those other sinners,

I just think that to think we make some kind of contribution towards our acceptibility to God does not recognize God's holiness, and makes it out to be something small that can be bought with the right display of humility or obedience. Nothing less than Christ Himself is needed! His righteous, next to which all other is, well, you know!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I just think that to think we make some kind of contribution towards our acceptibility to God does not recognize God's holiness, and makes it out to be something small that can be bought with the right display of humility or obedience. Nothing less than Christ Himself is needed! His righteous, next to which all other is, well, you know!

Much love!

So then you must have a hard time reading the bible in general...or the words of Jesus in particular....with His statements like...ask, seek and knock, ...or else..."few there be that find it' concerning the narrow door and way. Are we supposed to look for God's face? Isn't God free to accept or reject our advances towards Him? IS God not free to choose a people for Himself by His choice? Is God not alive and real enough as a Person to do these things? Or is God just some philosophical concept that we both control...and avoid at all costs?

Do people actually believe there is a God to find? I don't think very many have that kind of faith.

I mean if we are not to completely devote ourselves to a life of surrender and seeking His face, why are there so many exhortations to do just that?

 

[CharismaticLady]

As I said before for one who is supposed to be perfect you really seem to have a lot of trouble with sin, And you have no idea of grace, But if you wish to conintue to put yokes around the necks of men, that you do in opposition to Christ, How do you think those who have being before God and Christ even now Get ther, do you think they do it in sinless perfection, no they can stand there because they have put on His righteousness, they have nothing to boast of but Christ crucified, not, Look at me God im not like all those other sinners,

I don't have any trouble with sin anymore. I've been born again. If you are still in bondage to your carnal nature, an invisibility cloak is not going to help you, even one that looks like Jesus.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are so sadly confused, it is not even funny. Are you prepared to go right back TO SQUARE ONE and start learning Gospel truth? Or would you rather hang on to your misconceptions, and feel smug about it?

So unconfuse me. Answer my question.

So what do you believe the New Covenant does regarding our sin nature? Do we keep on sinning the same as every unsaved person? What does Jesus do to our sin?

 

[Episkopos]

The sheer superficiality of todays' gospel...with it's emotional appeal.

I tried watching a documentary the other day about the "American gospel"...I had to stop after a few minutes. It was terrible and disingenuous.

It stated that most people think they are good even as they break the commandments everyday. OK...But then the solution is to believe that Jesus died for you....so you can continue to break those same commandments but now you can be emotionally attached to a Jesus that is covering up every crime and sin...because of your emotional attachment to that scheme.

And you see these emotional services that somehow make you feel that you love the cover-up Jesus so much. Until you get up and continue a self-centered life outside of church where God can't see you.

But all that has happened is that you went from thinking you were basically a good person to believing you are somehow a righteous emotionally because you recognize you were a lost sinner...and now you are a found and saved sinner. And then to claim you are as righteous as Jesus in God's eyes. Foolishness. So then you have in reality become worse than before. Through bearing a false witness and becoming arrogant before God.

So Jesus is just looking for an emotional response to the message of His sacrifice...and that's good enough to cover your sins.

Where is the power of a new life in that? A new life or just the same life with a new emotional attachment to God and the bible?

But where is the fruit of holiness?

Oh, yeah, we aren't supposed to actually resemble Christ...that would be works....what a mockery!

 

[CharismaticLady]

The sheer superficiality of todays' gospel...with it's emotional appeal.

I tried watching a documentary the other day about the "American gospel"...I had to stop after a few minutes. It was terrible and disingenuous.

It stated that most people think they are good even as they break the commandments everyday. OK...But then the solution is to believe that Jesus died for you....so you can continue to break those same commandments but can be emotionally attached to a Jesus that is covering up every crime...because of your emotional attachment to that scheme.

And you see these emotional services that somehow make you feel that you love the cover-up Jesus.

But all that has happened is that you went from thinking you were basically a good person to believing you are somehow righteous emotionally because you recognize you were a lost sinner...and now you are a found and saved sinner.

So Jesus is just looking for an emotional response to the message of His sacrifice...and that's good enough to cover your sins.

Where is the power of a new life in that? A new life or just the same life with a new emotional attachment to God and the bible?

But where is the fruit of holiness?

Oh, yeah, we aren't supposed to actually resemble Christ...that would be works....what a mockery!

And it is extremely frustrating to talk them away from such heresies. There reaction is like taking a pacifier away from a baby. Here it is like watching grown men suck their thumbs!

 

[marks]

So then you must have a hard time reading the bible in general...or the words of Jesus in particular....with His statements like...ask, seek and knock, ...or else..."few there be that find it' concerning the narrow door and way. Are we supposed to look for God's face? Isn't God free to accept or reject our advances towards Him? IS God not free to choose a people for Himself by His choice? Is God not alive and real enough as a Person to do these things? Or is God just some philosophical concept that we both control...and avoid at all costs?

Do people actually believe there is a God to find? I don't think very many have that kind of faith.

I mean if we are not to completely devote ourselves to a life of surrender and seeking His face, why are there so many exhortations to do just that?

Do you believe that God has reconciled humanity to Himself? Do you believe God has reconciled you to Himself? This is at the heart of the matter.

God created us because it pleased Him to do so. And God does not change.

God created you because He wants you to have a relationship with Him, and to that end God took action to reconcile you to Him. If you have received that reconciliation, then it is done, friendship with God is restored, by Him, in providing for your death and resurrection, and by you, should you receive this in faith, that is, the reliance in Jesus that He has done this for you.

Having been reconciled, according to the will of God, and by the mean He provided, we can then go one to actually live that life of surrender and seeking His face, which He will so richly reward! But our lifestyle, our mindset, these things make us no more and no less acceptible to God. We are accepted by God in Christ.

We don't convince Him to receive us into His family by some good deed or happy thought that we think we do. We do not justify ourselves. We are justified by Jesus' one act of obedience, His surrender in death.

You seem to think that God made people that He doesn't actually want. I don't think that is the case. I think God wants all men to repent, and come to Him for life.

But once we discover how much God loves us, and how completely He has reconciled us, we love Him because He first loved us, and knowing His love builds our love for Him, and like everyone, we pursue what we love!

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And it is extremely frustrating to talk them away from such heresies. There reaction is like taking a pacifier away from a baby. Here it is like watching grown men suck their thumbs!

I am not sure what’s worse

these people

or people who think they are righteous, think they have overcome sin completely, and are nothing but modern day pharisees

licentiousness and legalism are two extremes but both are rooted in pride

 

[Candidus]

So unconfuse me. Answer my question.

So what do you believe the New Covenant does regarding our sin nature? Do we keep on sinning the same as every unsaved person? What does Jesus do to our sin?

While they don't admit it, they likely believe that God saves their sin, not them. He does not convert them, He converts their sin so it no longer damns. Atonement blinds a Holy and All-knowing God so He does not "see" or" know" a sin has been committed. Sanctification is an option, and if taken seriously, endangers those that God works in and through them to be righteous, are deceived and actually only self-righteous.

 

[CharismaticLady]

While they don't admit it, they likely believe that God saves their sin, not them. He does not convert them, He converts their sin so it no longer damns. Atonement blinds a Holy and All-knowing God so He does not "see" or" know" a sin has been committed. Sanctification is an option, and if taken seriously, endangers those that God works in and through them to be righteous, are deceived and actually only self-righteous.

An interesting and accurate depiction. In other words, God now sees wrong as right.

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't have any trouble with sin anymore. I've been born again. If you are still in bondage to your carnal nature, an invisibility cloak is not going to help you, even one that looks like Jesus.

So angry sure you dont sin anymore, If sin is no problem why do you keep speaking about it.

Look at me God Im not like all those other sinners??? We do know who is justified,.

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So I will have faith in Christ and not myself.