The Devil's work

[aspen]

One of the main roles of the Devil is that of Accuser. He will stand against humanity at the last judgement. The Pharisees shared this characteristic with the Devil; there main means of attack against Jesus was to try and trip Him up with the Law. Of course, the Pharisee's knew the law backwards and forwards and used it not to edify, but condemn. Jesus came to reclaim the Law, because the Law is actually good if used to edify and viewed through the lens of love. When the Pharisees cornered Jesus and tried to accuse Him of heresy for not following the law, Jesus answered brilliantly that the law (Sabbath - in the case of the parable) was created for man, not man for the law. The law is supposed to lead us back to our true nature - before the Fall - not condemn us. It was Jesus that gave us the perfect understanding of the law when He combined it with love. The Devil on the other hand, is still active and desperately wants us to ignore Jesus and misuse the law like his Pharisee did. It is his idea for us to use the law to accuse and condemn as many people as possible - twisting our hearts with envy, anger, hatred, and bitterness. The result of using the law to condemn is to resist Jesus' sanctifying work and to instead prepare the heart for the Pit. Citizens of Hell will have two main characteristics - they will feel cheated (bitterness) and the will feel completely and utterly alone ("I AM the only one I can trust").


[font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12:10&version=NIV"]Revelation 12:10[/url]
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.[/font]

As Christians, it is common to fall back into the trap of accusing others - trying to trip them up. Unfortunately, this is part of the Old Man / Ego / False Self / World Persona that we are called to throw off. I know I have been guilty of it, but now that I recognize the tendency, I realize that accusing others / mocking / scoffing / dismissing / name calling are all works of the Devil and have no place in a heart that desires to be sanctified in love.

Amen

 

[Robbie]

Good word Aspen... <LOVE>

 

[jacobtaylor]

One of the main roles of the Devil is that of Accuser. He will stand against humanity at the last judgement. The Pharisees shared this characteristic with the Devil; there main means of attack against Jesus was to try and trip Him up with the Law. Of course, the Pharisee's knew the law backwards and forwards and used it not to edify, but condemn. Jesus came to reclaim the Law, because the Law is actually good if used to edify and viewed through the lens of love. When the Pharisees cornered Jesus and tried to accuse Him of heresy for not following the law, Jesus answered brilliantly that the law (Sabbath - in the case of the parable) was created for man, not man for the law. The law is supposed to lead us back to our true nature - before the Fall - not condemn us. It was Jesus that gave us the perfect understanding of the law when He combined it with love. The Devil on the other hand, is still active and desperately wants us to ignore Jesus and misuse the law like his Pharisee did. It is his idea for us to use the law to accuse and condemn as many people as possible - twisting our hearts with envy, anger, hatred, and bitterness. The result of using the law to condemn is to resist Jesus' sanctifying work and to instead prepare the heart for the Pit. Citizens of Hell will have two main characteristics - they will feel cheated (bitterness) and the will feel completely and utterly alone ("I AM the only one I can trust").


[font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12:10&version=NIV"]Revelation 12:10[/url]
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.[/font]

As Christians, it is common to fall back into the trap of accusing others - trying to trip them up. Unfortunately, this is part of the Old Man / Ego / False Self / World Persona that we are called to throw off. I know I have been guilty of it, but now that I recognize the tendency, I realize that accusing others / mocking / scoffing / dismissing / name calling are all works of the Devil and have no place in a heart that desires to be sanctified in love.

Amen

Do you have some verses or are you simply trying to oppress opposition to your opinion? Past few days you have made your brand of biblical validaty, your opinion of God murdering people, and your position of a universal definition and application of love known as well. Your definitions, mocking and scoffing apply to you as well. Those definitions you apply to those that resist your theology. Would you care for me to post some of your mocking scoffing remarks here? You use the same love hate tactic all threw your post in reguard to any opposition. Can you explain why mocking and scoffing applies to others and not for yourself?

 

[aspen]

The Docket

Aspen stands accused of 8 separate accounts of:

1. "trying to oppress opposition to your opinion?"

2. "[pushing] your brand of biblical validity",

3. "[accusing] God [of] murdering people"

4. "[pushing] universal definition and application of love."

5. "mocking"

6. "scoffing"

7. "[slandering] those [who] resist your theology."

8. "us[ing] love hate tactics [against] any opposition."


Evidence against Aspen


1. Would you care for me to post some of your mocking scoffing remarks here?


Merciful Jesus,

Thank you for sacrificing your life for the justification of my heart through baptism; Lord, I am far from sinless, but I am thankful that you have invited me to share my failures and refusal to practice the sanctification you are teaching my heart. I pray that you will forgive me for not being patient and reacting poorly to opinions that oppose my own. Continue to teach me from your word and lead me into truth; do not allow me to wander into private interpretation of the scriptures or proof-texting to support my own understanding, but help me to open my heart to your truth. Only you know if I accused you of murdering your creation, if I did, I ask forgiveness - and I especially ask for forgiveness for the impression of calling you a murder that I placed in Jacob's mind and pray for healing for that wrong. God, I realize that your love is the Kingdom your Son spoke about in our hearts, and I also realize that I know this because of your revelation - I pray for patience and the words to communicate this truth to others. Now that you have helped me to realize that scoffing and mocking are works of the devil, please help me to refrain from scoffing, mocking, and sarcasm in the future and forgive my past transgressions. Help me to never accuse anyone of sin, but point out sin in a general manner, always remembering to include myself. Finally, thank you for revealing to me that your law can be used as a weapon - help me to remember to never use love as a weapon or tactic to push an agenda.


I pray for all the hearts that you are sanctifying, that you will reveal your love and forgiveness to all; helping others to repent of the works of the devil and move forward in the advancement of your Kingdom in our hearts!


It is only through your Grace and mercy and love that I can love myself and my neighbor.


Your Kingdom Come!


Amen


Can you explain why mocking and scoffing applies to others and not for yourself?


"As Christians, it is common to fall back into the trap of accusing others - trying to trip them up. Unfortunately, this is part of the Old Man / Ego / False Self / World Persona that we are called to throw off. I know I have been guilty of it, but now that I recognize the tendency, I realize that accusing others / mocking / scoffing / dismissing / name calling are all works of the Devil and have no place in a heart that desires to be sanctified in love."

All I can do is admit my faults and ask for forgiveness.

Peace

 

[jacobtaylor]

What you need to do in my opinion is get over the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you. Then maybe you won't be so quick to accuse them of doing the devils work. Accusing someone of being of the devil or not being saved is something I don't do. I can't know your heart all I see is what you say and do. Thats a pretty hateful thing to accusing someone of doing the devils work don't you think? Why can't you just say we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that?


It looks to me like your falling back into the same trap by calling others that disagree with you of the devil. Looks like you have forgiven yourself but wish to continue to accuse others. The very thing I think your telling others not to do. Saying someone is doing the devils work is judgment that is Gods alone. Disagreeing is something everyone has done and will continue to do. You had better look closely you may have simply traded one weakness for another.
Insinuating people here do the devils work, pretty strong statement.

I know I have been guilty of it, but now that I recognize the tendency, I realize that accusing others / mocking / scoffing / dismissing / name calling are all works of the Devil and have no place in a heart that desires to be sanctified in love.

 

[Robbie]

One of the main roles of the Devil is that of Accuser. He will stand against humanity at the last judgement. The Pharisees shared this characteristic with the Devil; there main means of attack against Jesus was to try and trip Him up with the Law. Of course, the Pharisee's knew the law backwards and forwards and used it not to edify, but condemn. Jesus came to reclaim the Law, because the Law is actually good if used to edify and viewed through the lens of love. When the Pharisees cornered Jesus and tried to accuse Him of heresy for not following the law, Jesus answered brilliantly that the law (Sabbath - in the case of the parable) was created for man, not man for the law. The law is supposed to lead us back to our true nature - before the Fall - not condemn us. It was Jesus that gave us the perfect understanding of the law when He combined it with love. The Devil on the other hand, is still active and desperately wants us to ignore Jesus and misuse the law like his Pharisee did. It is his idea for us to use the law to accuse and condemn as many people as possible - twisting our hearts with envy, anger, hatred, and bitterness. The result of using the law to condemn is to resist Jesus' sanctifying work and to instead prepare the heart for the Pit. Citizens of Hell will have two main characteristics - they will feel cheated (bitterness) and the will feel completely and utterly alone ("I AM the only one I can trust").


[font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12:10&version=NIV"]Revelation 12:10[/url]
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.[/font]

As Christians, it is common to fall back into the trap of accusing others - trying to trip them up. Unfortunately, this is part of the Old Man / Ego / False Self / World Persona that we are called to throw off. I know I have been guilty of it, but now that I recognize the tendency, I realize that accusing others / mocking / scoffing / dismissing / name calling are all works of the Devil and have no place in a heart that desires to be sanctified in love.

Amen

The thing I love about this Aspen is first of all that it's true... and second of all that you owned your part in it and recognized where that influence came from... when we find ourselves roaming around christian message boards seeking people to accuse and devour we need to check ourselves... good word = )

 

[aspen]

What you need to do in my opinion is get over the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you. Then maybe you won't be so quick to accuse them of doing the devils work. Accusing someone of being of the devil or not being saved is something I don't do. I can't know your heart all I see is what you say and do. Thats a pretty hateful thing to accusing someone of doing the devils work don't you think? Why can't you just say we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that?


It looks to me like your falling back into the same trap by calling others that disagree with you of the devil. Looks like you have forgiven yourself but wish to continue to accuse others. The very thing I think your telling others not to do. Saying someone is doing the devils work is judgment that is Gods alone. Disagreeing is something everyone has done and will continue to do. You had better look closely you may have simply traded one weakness for another.
Insinuating people here do the devils work, pretty strong statement.

Jacob,

You do not need to agree with me.

blessings

The thing I love about this Aspen is first of all that it's true... and second of all that you owned your part in it and recognized where that influence came from... when we find ourselves roaming around christian message boards seeking people to accuse and devour we need to check ourselves... good word = )

Thanks for the encouragement Robbie!

I truly believe that the only reason we are allowed to see the personal sins of others is so we can root out the same sins within ourselves. Seeing the personal sins of others is a grace and a big part of our personal sanctification if it is recognized as a mirror for our own sins. Of course, this grace can often be misused so thank you God for your forgiveness!!!

Blessings and Peace!!

 

[HammerStone]

I look at it this way.

Only the mind of God knows it all. We, clearly, are not God. That means none of us. Liberal, Fundamentalist, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, Pentecostal, Brethren, et al. We are going to see things differently. There are the essentials (Jesus the Christ and the Messiah) that define the core of what we believe and cannot be compromised. Then, there are "lesser" points. Thank God we get grace in that department too - although when we stand up to teach/preach something we better be ready to be accountable.

The ultimate Accuser knows this and loves this. Nothing does more damage that a gaggle of Christians getting into it. That's not to say we can't strike iron against iron on points and explore all that God has to offer. However, we have to keep in mind man is fallible and God is infallible.

Since we are fallible, we are going to be wrong. I wouldn't let that paralyze your discussions, debates, and exploration of the Word, but it's a great idea to keep in mind when talking to others. We're all guilty of wrapping up God and putting him into our own little neat box. From there, things just polarize. Pretty soon it becomes a case of arguing something that you don't exactly believe that way, but that we will defend for pride's sake.

 

[Robbie]

Good thoughts Hammerstone...

The one thing that popped into my head though was Paul's writting we were discussing in the other thread...

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words..

It is however obvious to me the thoughts in me that are fom God and the thoughts that are not... I definetly understand there's two seperate streams trying to flow thoughts into my head... it's my choice of which stream I will believe... as it's been from the beginning...

 

[aspen]

Our egos are strong. God is stronger and will (even in the midsts of an egomaniacal rant) convict our hearts. If we listen and obey His quiet, convicting, loving voice, we will realize that He is actually using our own voice to convict ourselves! It is all apart of our sanctification. We are learning to be citizens of Heaven, right now! How exciting!

 

[aspen]

What you need to do in my opinion is get over the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you.

I am just wondering, when have I asked anyone to believe what I am posting? I thought I was leaving it up to the reader to decide if what I am saying is true. Could it be that in your mind if I don't agree with your correction of my post, I am therefore, somehow forcing you to believe what I am writing? We can both be right and both be wrong, Jacob. Or I could be wrong and still not agree with your point of view. Agreeing or disagree is separate from love, BTW.

Then maybe you won't be so quick to accuse them of doing the devils work.

Did I use any names in my point? I was speaking generally and including myself in my observation.

Accusing someone of being of the devil or not being saved is something I don't do.

Have I? In this thread I am pointing out tactics that are used by the Devil and are sometimes used by Christians because they are effective and feed our egos. I am speaking genrally about Fallen man, who is struggling with his sanctification. I have never said a word about who is saved or not saved.

I can't know your heart all I see is what you say and do.

I agree.

Thats a pretty hateful thing to accusing someone of doing the devils work don't you think?

Definitely! Do you think I am doing this? I guess it is your choice to take my OP personally, but if you are going to so, don't waste time being defensive about it, make some changes. If you believe your behavior is fine, don't take it personally.

Why can't you just say we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that?

Because I am not talking about our opinions in this thread. I am talking about tactics that the Devil uses to entrap and snare and accuse, in order to embitter hearts and minds. You are not even mentioned. Feel free to join in the discussion, but I am not asking you to defend yourself.

It looks to me like your falling back into the same trap by calling others that disagree with you of the devil.

Who am I calling "of the Devil"? Where did I mention anything about condemning those who disagree with me? Who am I accusing of anything?

Looks like you have forgiven yourself but wish to continue to accuse others.

Are you referring to my prayer to Jesus? I was asking Him for forgiveness for my sins. Once again, how is my OP an accusation and who am I accusing?

The very thing I think your telling others not to do. Saying someone is doing the devils work is judgment that is Gods alone.

I disagree. There is nothing judgmental about naming negative behavior in a general manner. Paul did it all the time. Preachers do it as well. It is called a moral lesson. It is included under the same category as lying, and stealing and cheating. Think of it as a caution or warning.

Disagreeing is something everyone has done and will continue to do.

Indeed. I disagree with you frequently.

You had better look closely you may have simply traded one weakness for another.

Pointing out negative behavior is not a sin. If I was talking about the dangers of stealing, we would not be having this discussion.

Insinuating people here do the devils work, pretty strong statement.

I see accusations all over these boards. I am not naming names, but I believe the act of accusing people, and the use of name calling, mocking, scoffing, and sarcasm are more akin with our egos and the Devil than of our True Selves and Christ. I stand by this claim.

 

[Nomad]

Jesus came to reclaim the Law. . .

Where does the Bible teach this?

Jesus answered brilliantly that the law (Sabbath - in the case of the parable) was created for man, not man for the law.

Where does Jesus say that the Law was made for man, and not man for the Law? No, Jesus said no such thing. You're going beyond what was written. He said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

The law is supposed to lead us back to our true nature - before the Fall - not condemn us.

The Law does no such thing. Nowhere does the Bible teach that the Law is supposed to lead us back to some supposed pre-Adamic state. One of the functions of the Law was as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It's Christ who saves us from our fallen nature, not the Law.

Citizens of Hell will have two main characteristics - they will feel cheated (bitterness) and the will feel completely and utterly alone ("I AM the only one I can trust").

Where does the Bible teach any of this?

 

[Robbie]

Hey Nomad...

It does say that the Law is our tutor to bring us to Christ and since Christ is our way back into a restored relationship with God it's purpose is part of God's plan to restore us back to our original state of walking in an eternal living relationship with Him in His creation and His will... as it was in the beginning...

As far as the the Law itself, it obviously was made for us for our own good and not us made for the law...

If you look at everything about the Law it was obviously made to protect us from those who don't love their neighbor...

Don't murder, Don't steal, Take a day off Work, etc...

It's all for the purpose of protecting us... it's all for us... when we understand the revelation of God's Love that's in Jesus Christ that becomes clear...

There's nothing about the Law that's bad... just our inability to keep it or when we twist it so it no longer holds it's original intention...

Like when people were trying to use the Law to tell Jesus He shouldn't be helping people... when the whole purpose of the Law was to help people.

That's why there's no law against doing what's right...

For instance it's obvious that God hates lying... yet the Harlot Rahab was honored by God for lying,,, because what she was doing was right... God loves when we simple do right... there's nothing more right than to love one another...

 

[aspen]

Where does the Bible teach this?




Where does Jesus say that the Law was made for man, and not man for the Law? No, Jesus said no such thing. You're going beyond what was written. He said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.




The Law does no such thing. Nowhere does the Bible teach that the Law is supposed to lead us back to some supposed pre-Adamic state. One of the functions of the Law was as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. It's Christ who saves us from our fallen nature, not the Law.




Where does the Bible teach any of this?

Thanks for your opinion

blessings

Hey Nomad...

It does say that the Law is our tutor to bring us to Christ and since Christ is our way back into a restored relationship with God it's purpose is part of God's plan to restore us back to our original state of walking in an eternal living relationship with Him in His creation and His will... as it was in the beginning...

As far as the the Law itself, it obviously was made for us for our own good and not us made for the law...

If you look at everything about the Law it was obviously made to protect us from those who don't love their neighbor...

Don't murder, Don't steal, Take a day off Work, etc...

It's all for the purpose of protecting us... it's all for us... when we understand the revelation of God's Love that's in Jesus Christ that becomes clear...

There's nothing about the Law that's bad... just our inability to keep it or when we twist it so it no longer holds it's original intention...

Like when people were trying to use the Law to tell Jesus He shouldn't be helping people... when the whole purpose of the Law was to help people.

That's why there's no law against doing what's right...

For instance it's obvious that God hates lying... yet the Harlot Rahab was honored by God for lying,,, because what she was doing was right... God loves when we simple do right... there's nothing more right than to love one another...

Thanks for the explanation - well stated!

blessings

[font="tahoma][size="2"]Citizens of Hell will have two main characteristics - they will feel cheated (bitterness) and the will feel completely and utterly alone ("I AM the only one I can trust").

"Where does the Bible teach any of this?"

[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]Hi Nomad[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]This is not an explicit teaching in the Bible. However, if you meditate on the characteristics of a redeemed soul - humility, obedience, and love; the characteristics of the narcissistic citizen of Hell become evident - a soul who feels cheated out of salvation and believes they are their own God.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]There is nothing sinful about moving beyond simply memorizing scripture - we are also called to meditate, as well - and this involves thinking about it.[/size][/font]

 

[Nomad]

[font="tahoma][size="2"]Hi Nomad[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]This is not an explicit teaching in the Bible. [/size][/font]

That's right. Almost nothing in your OP is. I'm glad we agree.

 

[Nomad]

As far as the the Law itself, it obviously was made for us for our own good and not us made for the law...

That may be true enough, but that's no excuse for taking something Jesus actually said and changing it into what you wish he had said. That's what Aspen did and it's a dangerous practice.

 

[aspen]

That's right. Almost nothing in your OP is. I'm glad we agree.

And thank you for taking the only part of my post that supports your position.

Please enjoy being right, Nomad - I understand that for many it is the best they can hope for.

Thanks for your response and blessings.

 

[Anastacia]

And thank you for taking the only part of my post that supports your position.

Please enjoy being right, Nomad - I understand that for many it is the best they can hope for.

Thanks for your response and blessings.

So no one can correct you? Why do you bother posting on a discussion and debate group if you won't let anyone discuss what you say?

 

[Robbie]

Hey Nomad,

I didn't really see Aspen doing that... but maybe you can help me understand more why you felt that way? What I saw was Aspen looking at the principle that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the Ssabbath and then applying that principle to the whole Law... I understood her point...

Or were you talking about a different part?

The parts I loved about her post was that she saw a characteristic of the enemy and realized that many of us walk in a similar way including herself and the need for our repentance in that area...

As far as her views on hell I saw that as an opinion... I didn't think about whether she was right or wrong because I have no idea... I've had a lot of people share with me their opinions of hell and I always do the same... listen to their perspectives...

 

[aspen]

So no one can correct you? Why do you bother posting on a discussion and debate group if you won't let anyone discuss what you say?

I am not sure where the discussion part of Nomad's second post was, Anastacia. If it is there, I admit that I missed it. It was pretty clear to me that Nomad was finished talking when he dismissed the majority of my reply to his first post. I trust that he will continue posting if he feels like it. I am certainly not stopping him.

blessings


Also - why does a discussion have to involve correcting me? I am starting to get the idea that the only way I can stop being defensive in your mind is if I post an idea / someone corrects me / I respond by say "oh, thank you for showing me how wrong I am" / end of discussion. All my posts should really be 3 posts long - my incorrect OP / a correction / a complete agreement with the correction / end of discussion.

Thant is not what I am looking for - I just want to talk about ideas - I am hoping my OP will spark others to think about and clarify their own beliefs about doctrine and spirituality. You can disagree all you want, but tell me why and how you believe differently - does that make sense?