The Divine Exchange

[theefaith]

You said that Jesus has Mary's nature.
Did you go back and delete your post to try to hide?
I dont blame you, as that is an incredible blasphemy against's God's Son that you POSTED.

did he have Mary’s flesh and blood?

 

[Phoneman777]

"castaway" does not mean "lost".
It means......"DEMAS", or any person who remains a backslider.

Salvation can't be lost, but discipleship can be terminated/runied. = "castaway".

Paul said..>"i have finished my COURSE"......that is his Discipleship.
He could have not finished it, like DEMAS, = "castaway"...

COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE
​

1) To be "cast away" is to have God's holy Spirit taken away:

"CAST me not AWAY from Thy presence and take not Thy holy Spirit from me".​

2) A person without God's Spirit does not belong to God:

"If any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."​

3) Therefore, a "castaway" is a lost person - which is why Paul strove to never be counted among such. Please stop allowing the false doctrine of OSAS to cloud your reasoning, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

But it has nothing to do with still having a sin nature as some teach and you just did. The old man (carnal nature from Adam's sin) is dead. Romans 6:6-7. What we have now is Adam's human nature that he was created with before he sinned.

If that were the case, we wouldn't be struggling to be holy, we'd be struggling to sin.

As difficult as it is for us to choose to obey, that's how difficult it was for Adam to choose to sin...and what likely put him over the top was the knowledge that Eve would one day die and he couldn't bear to be apart from her afterward.

 

[theefaith]

COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE
​

1) To be "cast away" is to have God's holy Spirit taken away:

"CAST me not AWAY from Thy presence and take not Thy holy Spirit from me".​

2) A person without God's Spirit does not belong to God:

"If any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."​

3) Therefore, a "castaway" is a lost person - which is why Paul strove to never be counted among such. Please stop allowing the false doctrine of OSAS to cloud your reasoning, friend.

Jn 15:1-5 choose to abide or not to abide!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If that were the case, we wouldn't be struggling to be holy, we'd be struggling to sin.

As difficult as it is for us to choose to obey, that's how difficult it was for Adam to choose to sin...and what likely put him over the top was the knowledge that Eve would one day die and he couldn't bear to be apart from her afterward.

Christians don't have to keep struggling. Peter tells us how, and it has to do with the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus has already taken away our sin nature that was in opposition to the LAW of God, so that we no longer commit lawlessness, 1 John 3:4-5. Those who continue to willfully steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, and murder are not even Christians. If they are in church, then the Holy Spirit is on the outside drawing them to Jesus, but they have not surrendered their lives to Christ. No here is how to no longer struggle.

2 Peter 1:2-11. Haven't I showed you this? Everyone needs to grow in the Spirit and memorize verses 5-7.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What many churches teach is that we will not stop sinning until after we die and this body is resurrected. Their doctrine will send people to hell. But our nature in not in our body, but in our mind and heart. They are what needs to be reborn of the Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not just theology to believe, it is an actual event you experience. Mine was 30 years after I first started going to church, and that was 45 years ago. I was surprised and a bit taken back that all that time of 30 years I wasn't saved.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You said that Jesus has Mary's nature.
Did you go back and delete your post to try to hide?
I dont blame you, as that is an incredible blasphemy against's God's Son that you POSTED.

I said He had Mary's human nature BUT because of the SEED OF THE FATHER, His human nature was without her sin. It was a pure human nature with free will that Adam was FIRST created with in God's likeness, not Mary's sin nature from Adam from AFTER he sinned. Seeing as God can't die, Jesus also needed to be human in order to fulfill His mission that ended in death of the body.

What Jesus was born with is the same as all Christians who have successfully been born again. 1 John 3:9.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

did he have Mary’s flesh and blood?

Yes, but without her sin nature. The seed of the Father that Jesus was conceived with cleansed the sin nature so Christ never sinned. This is something that Catholics couldn't understand, so made up the unbiblical story that Mary also was born without sin, not just Jesus. Look at 1 John 3:9 and see that even though we are born with a sin nature, it is cleansed when we receive the seed of the Father God when we are born again. That is another doctrine Catholics don't understand, and even those from the Reformation. They never talk about the Spirit either.

Even though Mary was born under the Old Covenant and had a sin nature, she bore her own Savior and didn't die with that sin nature. She would have been born again too, just like every other human needs to, except the Old Testament saints whose sins were not imputed to them because He passed over their sins as long as they were looking forward to their Messiah and obeyed God's laws.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jn 15:1-5 choose to abide or not to abide!

Amen amen! Christians seem to think we check our free will at the church door when we walk in - not the case.

 

[Phoneman777]

Christians don't have to keep struggling. Peter tells us how, and it has to do with the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus has already taken away our sin nature that was in opposition to the LAW of God, so that we no longer commit lawlessness, 1 John 3:4-5. Those who continue to willfully steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, and murder are not even Christians. If they are in church, then the Holy Spirit is on the outside drawing them to Jesus, but they have not surrendered their lives to Christ. No here is how to no longer struggle.

2 Peter 1:2-11. Haven't I showed you this? Everyone needs to grow in the Spirit and memorize verses 5-7.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What many churches teach is that we will not stop sinning until after we die and this body is resurrected. Their doctrine will send people to hell. But our nature in not in our body, but in our mind and heart. They are what needs to be reborn of the Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not just theology to believe, it is an actual event you experience. Mine was 30 years after I first started going to church, and that was 45 years ago. I was surprised and a bit taken back that all that time of 30 years I wasn't saved.

Why must we "strive" against sin if opposition to sin is, as you suggest, a cakewalk?

Why must we "endure to the end" widespread iniquity's attempt to kill our "agape" if we're impervious to it?

If our perfect Savior struggled against sin in the Garden, should not we expect His imperfect redeemed to also struggle?

 

[theefaith]

Christians don't have to keep struggling. Peter tells us how, and it has to do with the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus has already taken away our sin nature that was in opposition to the LAW of God, so that we no longer commit lawlessness, 1 John 3:4-5. Those who continue to willfully steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, and murder are not even Christians. If they are in church, then the Holy Spirit is on the outside drawing them to Jesus, but they have not surrendered their lives to Christ. No here is how to no longer struggle.

2 Peter 1:2-11. Haven't I showed you this? Everyone needs to grow in the Spirit and memorize verses 5-7.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What many churches teach is that we will not stop sinning until after we die and this body is resurrected. Their doctrine will send people to hell. But our nature in not in our body, but in our mind and heart. They are what needs to be reborn of the Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not just theology to believe, it is an actual event you experience. Mine was 30 years after I first started going to church, and that was 45 years ago. I was surprised and a bit taken back that all that time of 30 years I wasn't saved.

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Yes, I can relate. God brought me to a whole new level of obedience through suffering for 12 years.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why must we "strive" against sin if opposition to sin is, as you suggest, a cakewalk?

Why must we "endure to the end" widespread iniquity's attempt to kill our "agape" if we're impervious to it?

If our perfect Savior struggled against sin in the Garden, should not we expect His imperfect redeemed to also struggle?

Free will. Are you going to settle for imperfection when Jesus said to be perfect even as my Father in Heaven is perfect? Don't have that mindset, for Proverbs 23:6 says for as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So diligently grow to maturity all the fruit of the Spirit, and memorize 2 Peter 1:5-7 to help you, then 2 Peter 1:10-11 will be true for you and you will no longer struggle.

Even though Adam was created perfect and without sin he still had free will to choose. That is why for us Paul commands us to not quench the Spirit. If you walk in the Spirit continuously as we must, we won't sin as God always provides a way of escape from temptations.

Jesus meant it when He said, "My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 11:
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

There will be no sinners in heaven. All sin and those who God knows will chose sin will be destroyed. There names will not be in the Book of Life. Eternity is forever. Can you imagine having to go though all of this again with another angel falling, and someone choosing sin instead of God? Unthinkable. But God is giving man 6,000 years to overcome and be filled with the power of God to never have what happened in the Garden of Eden, which was necessary to for any darkness to come to light, to happen again, and for any remaining darkness to be destroyed, and only Light to be forever. God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all, so there will be no darkness allowed into heaven with Him. John 8:34-36.

 

[Phoneman777]

Free will. Are you going to settle for imperfection when Jesus said to be perfect even as my Father in Heaven is perfect? Don't have that mindset, for Proverbs 23:6 says for as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So diligently grow to maturity all the fruit of the Spirit, and memorize 2 Peter 1:5-7 to help you, then 2 Peter 1:10-11 will be true for you and you will no longer struggle.

Even though Adam was created perfect and without sin he still had free will to choose. That is why for us Paul commands us to not quench the Spirit. If you walk in the Spirit continuously as we must, we won't sin as God always provides a way of escape from temptations.

Jesus meant it when He said, "My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 11:
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

There will be no sinners in heaven. All sin and those who God knows will chose sin will be destroyed. There names will not be in the Book of Life. Eternity is forever. Can you imagine having to go though all of this again with another angel falling, and someone choosing sin instead of God? Unthinkable. But God is giving man 6,000 years to overcome and be filled with the power of God to never have what happened in the Garden of Eden, which was necessary to for any darkness to come to light, to happen again, and for any remaining darkness to be destroyed, and only Light to be forever. God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all, so there will be no darkness allowed into heaven with Him. John 8:34-36.

I have free will to do harm to my loved ones - but never fight against a desire to do it.
However, like most of us, I indeed have a desire to overeat and/or eat the wrong things, and I fight fiercely against that.

In both cases, free will is exercised, so the problem is something other than free will. (pssssst: it's the old man of sin which we resurrect every time we forget he's already dead)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

However, like most of us, I indeed have a desire to overeat and/or eat the wrong things, and I fight fiercely against that.

That is not a sin. I don't know you, but I doubt you've done any of these, though I know I'm projecting myself onto you. I don't willfully do any of these, so you probably don't either.

1 Cor. 6:
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them.

Over-eating is not resurrecting the old man of sin. I'll give you one of the lists that Paul gave us.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here is another:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

And another:

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

The only way we can defile our temple is with sexual sins.

 

[Phoneman777]

That is not a sin.

1 Cor. 6:
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful.

Is worshiping Satan lawful? Obviously not. "All things are lawful" means "all things the law allows" -- not that which it disallows, lest Satan worship and sodomy is now perfectly acceptable in the sight of God.

It's lawful to marry, but not helpful to marry a lazy man. It's lawful to work hard but not helpful to be a workaholic.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is worshiping Satan lawful? Obviously not. "All things are lawful" means "all things the law allows" -- not that which it disallows, lest Satan worship and sodomy is now perfectly acceptable in the sight of God.

It's lawful to marry, but not helpful to marry a lazy man. It's lawful to work hard but not helpful to be a workaholic.

The context was the body. All food is okay. Sexual sin isn't.

We always have to read the context or false doctrines will be born like worshiping Satan and sodomy

 

[Phoneman777]

The context was the body. All food is okay. Sexual sin isn't.

We always have to read the context or false doctrines will be born like worshiping Satan and sodomy

I think it's a principle which extends beyond merely the menu, which btw I still insist refers to lawful foods items. Isaiah says at Jesus fiery coming, those found eating pork and mice are in trouble. It's not referring to a time when "Jews are down here while we're up there" because Peter says when the Lord comes as a thief in the night with fire, the planet will be rendered uninhabitable.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Isaiah says at Jesus fiery coming, those found eating pork and mice are in trouble.

Do you mind adding texts to your quotes. I've got all of mine memorized by now.

I looked up mice and found nothing. Then I looked up unclean and only found Deuteronomy. Then I looked up firey in Isaiah, and found a firey flying serpent.

 

[Phoneman777]

Do you mind adding texts to your quotes. I've got all of mine memorized by now.

I looked up mice and found nothing. Then I looked up unclean and only found Deuteronomy. Then I looked up firey in Isaiah, and found a firey flying serpent.

Sure, Isaiah 66:

Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV (emphasis mine)

[15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire (Second Coming), and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh (the world): and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Jeremiah says "The slain of the Lord in that day shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth")
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sure, Isaiah 66:

Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV (emphasis mine)

[15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire (Second Coming), and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh (the world): and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Jeremiah says "The slain of the Lord in that day shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth")
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

I missed looking up swine and mouse! Thanks, brother!