The Doctrine of OSAS
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Yes, and what are his commands
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
And that is how we know we are His.
In all His Love
How many times have we been through this?ATP said:
I've told you and told you and told you...I do believe in what He did on the cross for me...I do believe in the resurrection.
I am not counting on anything I can do to keep me saved.
But I think there is more to trusting in Him and believing in Him than that.
OSAS is like buying fire insurance...you say a pretty prayer, and from then on, you're covered.
But what about the Guy Who has underwritten that insurance policy??
Do you trust Him? Do you believe in Him?
If you do, then why do you not believe the things that He taught you?
Did you know that, if you start the fire yourself, your insurance will not pay for your loss? In fact, you could wind up in prison for fraud...
Just a thought....
Very prettily said, Mjrhealth...and also quite true.mjrhealth said:
This is one of my very favorite passages in the Bible.
Did you notice that, in order to keep this commandment, you actually have to DO something? Love, my dear man, is an action word...
Oh, dear...."works salvation!"
You do realize that this is not a "suggestion"...it is a commandment. Jesus expects you to obey Him.
And He is very serious about it...this is what separates His disciples from the rest of the world...love.
What kind of love? The kind of love He showed to us.
Oh, yeah...that kind of love does warn the world of the consequences of unrepentant sin...just as Jesus did.
Why?
Because He is not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance....
That is love.
- Mar 14, 2011
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John MacArthur
John Murray in Redemption Accomplished and Applied wrote the following:
In order to place the doctrine of perseverance in proper light we need to know what it is not. It does not mean that every one who professes faith in Christ and who is accepted as a believer in the fellowship of the saints is secure for eternity and may entertain the assurance of eternal salvation. Our Lord himself warned his followers in the days of his flesh when he said to those Jews who believed on him, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye truly my disciples, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31, 32). He set up a criterion by which true disciples might be distinguished, and that criterion is continuance in Jesus’ Word (pp. 151–52.)
The above explanation by Murray of the doctrine of perseverance is an elaboration of what Peter meant by his words “protected by the power of God” when he wrote his first epistle (1 Pet 1:5). If any biblical character was ever prone to failure, it was Simon Peter. Judging from the biblical record, none of the Lord’s disciples—excluding Judas the betrayer—stumbled more often or more miserably than he. Peter was the disciple with the foot-shaped mouth. He seemed to have a knack for saying the worst possible thing at the most inappropriate time. He was impetuous, erratic, vacillating—sometimes cowardly, sometimes weak, sometimes hotheaded. On several occasions he merited strong rebukes from the Lord, none more severe than that recorded in Matt 16:23: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.” That occurred almost immediately after the high point in Peter’s experience with Christ, when Peter confessed, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matt 16:16).
Peter’s life is proof that a true believer’s spiritual experience is often filled with ups and downs, but Peter illustrates another biblical truth, a more significant one: the keeping power of God. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He gave Peter an insight into the behind-the-scenes spiritual battle over Peter’s soul: “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail” (Luke 22:31–32, emphasis added).
Peter was confident of his willingness to stand with Jesus, whatever the cost. He told the Lord, “Lord, with You I am ready to go both to prison and to death” (Luke 22:33). Yet Jesus knew the truth and sadly told Peter, “The cock will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me” (Luke 22:34).
Did Peter fail? Yes, miserably. Was his faith overthrown? Never. Jesus Himself was interceding on Peter’s behalf, and His prayers did not go unanswered.
The Lord intercedes for all genuine believers that way. John 17:11 gives a glimpse of how He prays for them: “I am no more in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, the name which Thou has given Me, that they may be one, even as We are.”
He continues:
I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth. I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me. And the glory which Thou has given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me (John 17:15–23).
Notice what the Lord was praying for: that believers would be kept from the power of evil; that they would be sanctified by the Word; that they would share His sanctification and glory; and that they would be perfected in their union with Christ and one another. He was praying that they would persevere in the faith.
Was the Lord praying for the eleven faithful disciples only? No. He explicitly includes every believer in all succeeding generations: “I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word” (v. 20). That includes all true Christians, even in the present day!
Moreover, the Lord Himself is continuing His intercessory ministry for believers right now. “He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them” (Heb 7:25). The King James Version translates Heb 7:25 thus: “He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
John Murray in Redemption Accomplished and Applied wrote the following:
In order to place the doctrine of perseverance in proper light we need to know what it is not. It does not mean that every one who professes faith in Christ and who is accepted as a believer in the fellowship of the saints is secure for eternity and may entertain the assurance of eternal salvation. Our Lord himself warned his followers in the days of his flesh when he said to those Jews who believed on him, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye truly my disciples, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31, 32). He set up a criterion by which true disciples might be distinguished, and that criterion is continuance in Jesus’ Word (pp. 151–52.)
The above explanation by Murray of the doctrine of perseverance is an elaboration of what Peter meant by his words “protected by the power of God” when he wrote his first epistle (1 Pet 1:5). If any biblical character was ever prone to failure, it was Simon Peter. Judging from the biblical record, none of the Lord’s disciples—excluding Judas the betrayer—stumbled more often or more miserably than he. Peter was the disciple with the foot-shaped mouth. He seemed to have a knack for saying the worst possible thing at the most inappropriate time. He was impetuous, erratic, vacillating—sometimes cowardly, sometimes weak, sometimes hotheaded. On several occasions he merited strong rebukes from the Lord, none more severe than that recorded in Matt 16:23: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.” That occurred almost immediately after the high point in Peter’s experience with Christ, when Peter confessed, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matt 16:16).
Peter’s life is proof that a true believer’s spiritual experience is often filled with ups and downs, but Peter illustrates another biblical truth, a more significant one: the keeping power of God. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He gave Peter an insight into the behind-the-scenes spiritual battle over Peter’s soul: “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail” (Luke 22:31–32, emphasis added).
Peter was confident of his willingness to stand with Jesus, whatever the cost. He told the Lord, “Lord, with You I am ready to go both to prison and to death” (Luke 22:33). Yet Jesus knew the truth and sadly told Peter, “The cock will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me” (Luke 22:34).
Did Peter fail? Yes, miserably. Was his faith overthrown? Never. Jesus Himself was interceding on Peter’s behalf, and His prayers did not go unanswered.
The Lord intercedes for all genuine believers that way. John 17:11 gives a glimpse of how He prays for them: “I am no more in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, the name which Thou has given Me, that they may be one, even as We are.”
He continues:
I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth. I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me. And the glory which Thou has given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me (John 17:15–23).
Notice what the Lord was praying for: that believers would be kept from the power of evil; that they would be sanctified by the Word; that they would share His sanctification and glory; and that they would be perfected in their union with Christ and one another. He was praying that they would persevere in the faith.
Was the Lord praying for the eleven faithful disciples only? No. He explicitly includes every believer in all succeeding generations: “I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word” (v. 20). That includes all true Christians, even in the present day!
Moreover, the Lord Himself is continuing His intercessory ministry for believers right now. “He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them” (Heb 7:25). The King James Version translates Heb 7:25 thus: “He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
Satan and his demons believe that Jesus is the Christ, but they haven't accepted Him as Savior. Big difference.heretoeternity said:
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
These verses are quite plain.
Christ's disciples are those who continue in His word. That doesn't mean that they can take a night off every now and then for a little sin on the side, as some OSAS teachers seem to think.
Do you wish to know the truth that makes you free?
Those who continue in His word know that truth...
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
These verses are quite plain.
Christ's disciples are those who continue in His word. That doesn't mean that they can take a night off every now and then for a little sin on the side, as some OSAS teachers seem to think.
Do you wish to know the truth that makes you free?
Those who continue in His word know that truth...
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Continue in His goodness, otherwise thou shalt be cut off? How can the grafted in vine, which is grafted in by faith, be cut off ever if once saved always saved is true? Are the words spoken merely an idle threat?
Continue in His goodness, otherwise thou shalt be cut off? How can the grafted in vine, which is grafted in by faith, be cut off ever if once saved always saved is true? Are the words spoken merely an idle threat?
Sin,
Being unfaithfull.
Now when a women is promised a husband, and therefore is wed to Him, in our Case Jesus, and than receives His seed by promise, “ the holy spirit” and has therefore become married to Him,
[SIZE=11pt]Gen 2:24[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/SIZE]
Should she therefore not remain faithful to Her Husband by promise.
Now if she should become a married to another husband, in this case the “law”.
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:1[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:2[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her[/SIZE] husband.
[SIZE=11pt]Is she not an adultress, a sinner??[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:3[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]But than while we remain faithful to our husband by promise,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:4[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/SIZE]
And so those who are His are His bride and He remains our husband.
But than if one has not recieved her husband of promise, “Jesus” than she may go and marry another, “the law”. And she will not be unfaithfull.
As it says,
[SIZE=11pt]Luk 5:39[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] No man also having drunk old wine[/SIZE] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
[SIZE=11pt]In all His Love[/SIZE]
Being unfaithfull.
Now when a women is promised a husband, and therefore is wed to Him, in our Case Jesus, and than receives His seed by promise, “ the holy spirit” and has therefore become married to Him,
[SIZE=11pt]Gen 2:24[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/SIZE]
Should she therefore not remain faithful to Her Husband by promise.
Now if she should become a married to another husband, in this case the “law”.
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:1[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:2[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her[/SIZE] husband.
[SIZE=11pt]Is she not an adultress, a sinner??[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:3[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]But than while we remain faithful to our husband by promise,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:4[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/SIZE]
And so those who are His are His bride and He remains our husband.
But than if one has not recieved her husband of promise, “Jesus” than she may go and marry another, “the law”. And she will not be unfaithfull.
As it says,
[SIZE=11pt]Luk 5:39[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] No man also having drunk old wine[/SIZE] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
[SIZE=11pt]In all His Love[/SIZE]
Yes...we've heard that before.mjrhealth said:
But what if it is a human woman, married to a husband?
She is a Christian...she has believed in Jesus Christ, and in HIs Sacrifice on Calvary, and she believes her pastor when he tells her that all of her sins...past present and future, are forgiven. She can't fall from grace.
So she decides to have an affair....
According to OSAS, this is no problem. She will still go to heaven anyway.
Suppose she decides to drown her children...it has happened. No problem. According to OSAS, she will still go to heaven.
Oh, she might lose a crown or two...but she will go to heaven.
One of you OSASers told me not long ago that a man could rape his 7 year old stepson....and he would still go to heaven. He could go on a killing spree...no problem, he's already been forgiven for every murder he commits. If he dies before he repents, he'll be in heaven.
This is a disgusting lie, and I honestly do not see how anyone could believe it.
Have any of you guys ever heard of a man named George Sodini?
These Jews never had the root of salvation. Let's start off by recognizing these passages first. The people who are being "grafted in" are those who have reached salvation. Those who are not being grafted in are those who still remain in unbelief. I see the term "grafted in" is mentioned six times here. Paul continues to think about a tree.DGenesis1:29 said:
There were very many *olive trees in the country. So an *olive tree became a description of the *Jewish nation. ‘The *Lord called you a healthy *olive tree’ (Jeremiah 11:16). Paul describes a technique called grafting. Farmers and gardeners world-wide still use grafting today. The problem is that a strong tree does not always yield good quality fruit. A weaker tree might yield better quality fruit. But because that tree is weak, it cannot yield much fruit. If both trees are of the same kind, the gardener can try grafting. He removes the branches from the strong tree. Then he binds a small branch of the weaker tree to the stem of the strong tree. This is a difficult task. Only a skilled gardener has a good possibility of success. But if the gardener succeeds, he will have a much better tree. It will be a strong tree that yields good fruit. And the fruit will be plentiful.
1. Nourishing sap is a term that describes God's grace and love toward the elect in Rom 11:17 NIV.
2. If you are considered a branch that doesn't mean you are grafted in to the vine and root Rom 11:19 NIV.
3. The Jews remained in unbelief, they did not reach salvation yet. Therefore they were not grafted in yet Rom 11:23 NIV
4. The "natural branches" are the Jews. How much more shall these which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? that there is a greater likelihood, and more easily may it be, according to all appearance of things, that the Jews, the natural branches or descendants of Abraham, should be brought into a Gospel church state, which first began among them, and which at first only consisted of some of their nation. The Gospel church is called "their own olive tree", in allusion to Israel, or the Jewish church, which is often so called in their writings. How much more shall these, &c.—This is just the converse of Rom 11:21 NIV: "As the excision of the merely engrafted Gentiles through unbelief is a thing much more to be expected than was the excision of the natural Israel, before it happened; so the restoration of Israel, when they shall be brought to believe in Jesus, is a thing far more in the line of what we should expect, than the admission of the Gentiles to a standing which they never before enjoyed."
Rom 11:17 NIV - If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
Rom 11:19 NIV - You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
Rom 11:23 NIV - And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 NIV - After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
Now take a look at verse 11, 18, 28 and 29. Rom 11:11 NIV speaks of two different groups of people, Gentiles and Israel, salvation and non-salvation. Now take a look at Rom 11:28-29 NIV, notice it mentions the election, loved and irrevocable, this is specifically speaking about those who were "grafted in"...once we are grafted in the root then supports us, we do not support the root Rom 11:18 NIV...
Rom 11:11 NIV - Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.
Rom 11:18 NIV do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:28-29 NIV - As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
You bunny hopped all around that olive tree, without once touching the verses in question...ATP said:
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Do you not see that it is possible for you to also be cut off?
If you do not wish that tragedy to befall even you, ATP, you also must continue in His goodness.
This isn't rocket science
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