The Doctrine of OSAS

[Barrd]

Hmmm....
As Phoneman would say....

:blink: :blink:
ATP meltdown in 3, 2, 1.....

 

[ATP]

John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

1 Cor 15:57 NIV But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Done.

 

[justaname]

I'm not shifting the burden of proof. Who was the first to mention Phil 1:6 you or I? I believe it was you. You claimed it was about a person's sanctification. What makes your claim fact? You didn't explain how it supported your claim, you just said it did.

Yes and you claim it does not...yet you do not explain yourself. Now if you had asked me to support my claim, then I would understand your case. Rather you simply stated your opinion that the verse is not about the sanctification process.

Again you are entitled to your opinion...

 

[Butch5]

It's still elephant hurling in separate posts. Which passage tells us that salvation can't be lost. I don't see any words to that effect in those passages. That indicates to me that you're inferring it from those passages. If you're inferring it then you'll need to explain how you draw that inference.

 

[ATP]

Religion will never save you. Only the blood of Jesus will keep you.

 

[ATP]

Bye.

 

[Butch5]

The fact that no one has posted a passage that states that salvation can't be lost shows that the Bible doesn't teach this. Therefore the idea is drawn from inference. We're dealing with inferences, not facts. Inferences can be wrong, fact can't be.

 

[Butch5]

Religion will never save you. Only the blood of Jesus will keep you.

I'm not sure how this is relevant.

 

[Butch5]

John 6:39 NIV And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 17:12 NIV While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

John 6 in context is speaking of the apostles and some disciples. It's not a statement about Christians. That can be seen in John 17. Even in the passage you posted. In this passage Jesus speaks of those given to Him in the past tense. He says,

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (Jn. 17:12 KJV)

God gave them to Jesus, past tense. Even so, one of them was lost.

 

[justaname]

What work had God begun? Referring to the immediate context only, some interpreters prefer to explain it as the support the church gave to Paul. They say Paul meant the “sharing in the gospel.” The rule of context always guides the interpreter, but it is conceivable that Paul may have drawn on the wider context of Christian experience as well. The experience of God’s grace always lay under the surface of Paul’s words. Most likely that is true here since a reference to the support seems awkward.13 Further, how does the reference to the “day of Christ” relate to their completion of the gift? Did Paul expect them to continue supporting him until the second coming?
Paul had a general Christian characteristic in mind when he made this statement. Even those who interpret the passage as referring to the specific financial gift normally generalize it somewhat. They refer to the spirit which produced the gift or the opportunity and responsibility of supporting the gospel. It is more likely, however, that Paul saw the Philippians’ generosity as evidence of the grace of God in their lives, and in this text he spoke to that grace. In 2 Cor 8:7, a passage that urged the Corinthians to be like the Philippians in giving, Paul urged the development of the grace of giving. Giving evidenced the maturity of their thought and action. The good work in 1:6 refers to what lay behind their generosity, the calling and Christian maturity of the church.

New American Commentaries

Great confidence gripped the apostle as he thought and prayed for the Philippians. The perfect tense of the Greek word translated being confident indicates that Paul had come to a settled conviction earlier and that he still was confident it was true. What was he so confident and sure of? It was that God would most certainly continue on to completion the good work He had begun in them. That good work was their salvation. It may also have included their fellowship and sharing of their bounties with Paul.

Bible Knowledge Commentary

Ver. 6.—Being confident of this very thing. St. Paul’s thanksgiving refers, not only to the past, but also to the future. He has a confident trustfulness in God’s power and love. The words αὐτὸ τοῦτο might mean “on this account,” i.e. on account of the perseverance described in ver. 5, but the order seems to support the ordinary rendering. That he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it; rather, as R. V., he which began. Both ἐναρξάμενος and ἐπιτελέσει have (Bishop Lightfoot) a sacrificial reference. The good work is self-consecration, the sacrifice of themselves, their souls and bodies, issuing in the co-operation of labour and almsgiving. This sacrificial metaphor recurs in ch. 2:17. The good work is God’s; he began it and he will perfect it. The beginning (Bengel) is the pledge of the consummation. Yet it is also their work—their co-operation towards the gospel (comp. ch. 2:12, 13).

The Pulpit Commentary


All on Philippians 1:6

 

[Butch5]

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

This is speaking of one who believes in Jesus. I don't think anyone said a believer will be lost. It's the one who stop believing/trusting.

 

[Butch5]

What work had God begun? Referring to the immediate context only, some interpreters prefer to explain it as the support the church gave to Paul. They say Paul meant the “sharing in the gospel.” The rule of context always guides the interpreter, but it is conceivable that Paul may have drawn on the wider context of Christian experience as well. The experience of God’s grace always lay under the surface of Paul’s words. Most likely that is true here since a reference to the support seems awkward.13 Further, how does the reference to the “day of Christ” relate to their completion of the gift? Did Paul expect them to continue supporting him until the second coming?
Paul had a general Christian characteristic in mind when he made this statement. Even those who interpret the passage as referring to the specific financial gift normally generalize it somewhat. They refer to the spirit which produced the gift or the opportunity and responsibility of supporting the gospel. It is more likely, however, that Paul saw the Philippians’ generosity as evidence of the grace of God in their lives, and in this text he spoke to that grace. In 2 Cor 8:7, a passage that urged the Corinthians to be like the Philippians in giving, Paul urged the development of the grace of giving. Giving evidenced the maturity of their thought and action. The good work in 1:6 refers to what lay behind their generosity, the calling and Christian maturity of the church.

New American Commentaries

Great confidence gripped the apostle as he thought and prayed for the Philippians. The perfect tense of the Greek word translated being confident indicates that Paul had come to a settled conviction earlier and that he still was confident it was true. What was he so confident and sure of? It was that God would most certainly continue on to completion the good work He had begun in them. That good work was their salvation. It may also have included their fellowship and sharing of their bounties with Paul.

Bible Knowledge Commentary

Ver. 6.—Being confident of this very thing. St. Paul’s thanksgiving refers, not only to the past, but also to the future. He has a confident trustfulness in God’s power and love. The words αὐτὸ τοῦτο might mean “on this account,” i.e. on account of the perseverance described in ver. 5, but the order seems to support the ordinary rendering. That he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it; rather, as R. V., he which began. Both ἐναρξάμενος and ἐπιτελέσει have (Bishop Lightfoot) a sacrificial reference. The good work is self-consecration, the sacrifice of themselves, their souls and bodies, issuing in the co-operation of labour and almsgiving. This sacrificial metaphor recurs in ch. 2:17. The good work is God’s; he began it and he will perfect it. The beginning (Bengel) is the pledge of the consummation. Yet it is also their work—their co-operation towards the gospel (comp. ch. 2:12, 13).

The Pulpit Commentary


All on Philippians 1:6

OK, what do these opinions have to do with it? From their statements is seems they're not real sure what Paul meant. Either way, the good work that God began was in the Philippian church what does that have to do with believers today?

 

[justaname]

OK, what do these opinions have to do with it? From their statements is seems they're not real sure what Paul meant. Either way, the good work that God began was in the Philippian church what does that have to do with believers today?

I have clearly supported my position...yet you still use your dodging tactics and now ask what does this verse have to do with modern times...

WOW!

 

[Barrd]

There are far too many verses in the Bible that very clearly state that a person can fall from grace.
Why would Jesus spend so much time teaching us how to live a righteous life?
Why does He warn us to fear the One Who can destroy body and soul in hell?

OSAS is Satan's most ingenuous lie ever...

 

[justaname]

There are far too many verses in the Bible that very clearly state that a person can fall from grace.
Why would Jesus spend so much time teaching us how to live a righteous life?
Why does He warn us to fear the One Who can destroy body and soul in hell?

OSAS is Satan's most ingenuous lie ever...

Do you believe you are protected by the power of God?

Do you believe Jesus intercedes on your behalf today in heaven?

Do you believe when Jesus died on the cross for your sins He died for all of them, or is there some sins He did not die for?

Do you believe you can thwart God plan of salvation?

 

[justaname]

What I see are those who submit to God's sovereign authority in the realm of salvation, sanctification, and justification, trusting in the promise of eternal life; the promise given by God.

Then others believe they can go against God's sovereign authority and can nullify the blood of Christ's effective potential.

Some say God says He will save me and I believe it. Others say God says He will save me but I think I can still mess that up. Essentially they believe they are more powerful than God.

I wonder is this another of Satan's lies?

4 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

 

[Barrd]

Do you believe you are protected by the power of God?

Do you believe Jesus intercedes on your behalf today in heaven?

Do you believe when Jesus died on the cross for your sins He died for all of them, or is there some sins He did not die for?

Do you believe you can thwart God plan of salvation?

As long as I walk with God, yes, I am protected.
As long as I remain in Jesus, yes, He intercedes on my behalf.
Yes, Jesus died for my sins...and if I will confess my sin, He is righteous and just to forgive my sin. But if I think that "eternal security" means that I may willfully sin, and hey...I'm covered...then there is a problem.
Can I thwart God's plan of salvation? That's a loaded question. God's plan is for me to follow His Son, Whom He sent. If I begin to follow, but then turn back, have I "thwarted God's plan"? No...but unless I repent and return, then I am lost....

 

[Barrd]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Here is an interesting group...they had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ"...but then they were "again entangled therein and overcome."
Not good! Because "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning".

 

[ATP]

The fact that no one has posted a passage that states that salvation can't be lost shows that the Bible doesn't teach this. Therefore the idea is drawn from inference. We're dealing with inferences, not facts. Inferences can be wrong, fact can't be.

We've posted passages, but you do not believe it seems. That's why they call it believing Butch. He that believes has eternal life.

 

[Barrd]

2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.