The Doctrine of OSAS

[ATP]

Apostates..

Rom 1:32 NIV Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 John 2:18-19 NIV Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

 

[ATP]

Acts 20:25-30 NIV “Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you. 27For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

 

[ATP]

Matt 7:15 NIV "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

 

[ATP]

Rev 20:10 NIV And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

If you are a Christian and you choose to take the mark of the Beast you live forever right ? either way

 

[ATP]

If you are a Christian and you choose to take the mark of the Beast you live forever right ? either way

Evil can't dwell inside holiness. Why do you think believers can no longer be possessed by the devil.

 

[FHII]

A few questions for Barrd:

1. I'd like to revisit a point DPMartin brought up. He noted in 2 Peter 3:9 that when Peter spoke of God not being "willing that any should perish...", he was speaking specifically about "us". In other words, those of lije, precious faith-not everyone. If I have misunderstood DP's intentions, I apologize. However, I'd like to hear your comments on that point.

2. Why do you not believe that the case of Pharoah is valid? I ask because I recall several times the Bible saying God hardened his heart. Looking back on it, I seem to remember that initially, Pharoah purposed to let them go, but didn't.

3. Esau didn't have his heart right. That much is true. But he sought repentance carefully with tears, and was rejected. Later in life, I think he even reconciled with Jacob. Yet, still rejected. Care to comment?

 

[justaname]

If you are a Christian and you choose to take the mark of the Beast you live forever right ? either way

Why would a Christian take the mark?

A Christian in name only might take the mark, but a Christian in truth would not take the mark.

 

[Barrd]

So then you do agree God did force Himself on Paul. This then opens the possibility of Him doing this to others even everyone. I personally do not believe this, that God forces Himself on everyone, but I am open to the possibility. I am certain that the Father draws to Himself all who are saved...



Oh but my judgement is valid and can even be backed by scripture...

First off if they had a complete saving faith they would not have left. The proof is in their actions.

1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.


If someone "loses their salvation" that would mean God was in the process of saving someone but failed at that attempt.
You still did not answer the question. Please give me a thoughtful and prayer filled answer.


No. That would be double predestination. God knows the final destination of everyone be it heaven or hell because He is omniscient. Everyone ever born is apportioned to God's plan for His glory, not because of fate but because of their personal choices through this life. Some will accept the gospel and God knows who will. Some will reject the gospel and God knows who will. Some will hear a twisted version of the gospel while others will never have a chance to hear the gospel at all. God knows who all of these are also. In His infinite wisdom God created all of this, in full knowledge of the circumstances and outcomes of everyone. Again God is omniscient, all knowing.

God knows/knew all the possibilities of every form of creation with every possible variable conceivable. God chose this exact creation to bring about His glory, with the Lamb being slain before the foundations of the world. All of creation points to God and proclaims His glory. God is glorified showing His justice for those who go to hell. God is glorified showing His mercy for those who inherit the Kingdom. God is not culpable for anyone who goes to hell, because that is what we all deserve, due to sin. Man is in a state of total depravity where sin has been passed down through Adam unto everyone today.


This is a great verse speaking to God's goodness, His love, His compassion, and His willingness to show His mercy. I could exegete it properly if you like...


Then God would not be just. Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
God abhors sin, wickedness and inequity. God brings wickedness to a just end.

Also that is not His plan for His glory. Again creation points to God, not God to the creation. IOW its all about Him!

This question is similar to, "Why did God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden to begin with?"

Do you think that I have not prayed over these things, Justaname?
Especially over the last month, since I got involved in this debate.
Of course, I had heard such phrases as "Perserverence of the Saints" and "Eternal Security" before...but I had not realized that these beautiful words were attached to the ugly lie that a person could sin, and not lose his or her salvation. I had not realized that people were actually being taught that there was nothing that they could do that would cost them their salvation.
This idea is completely foreign to the teaching of Jesus Christ. My goodness, the whole reason He came to this fallen world of ours was to redeem us from sin....and He spent three years teaching us how to live a holy life. Don't you know that, if God had chosen to, He could have forgiven us without ever leaving His throne? Remember, nothing is impossible for God! Nothing...including redeeming us without shedding a drop of blood.
But He had declared that, without the shedding of blood, there was no forgiveness.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

We must understand how very serious a problem sin is. I suspect that it is one of those things we've heard so often that it has ceased to have much meaning for us. "The wages of sin is death" seems to produce nothing but bored looks, and even yawns. "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before...now hurry up and finish the sermon so I can get home to the football game on T.V."

Enter Satan:
"Don't you worry about that little sin....after all, didn't Jesus die for all of your sins? Thou shalt not surely die..."
And the gullible fools lap it up like a cat with a dish of cream....

Can't you hear the demonic laughter? Can't you smell the brimstone?

 

[ATP]

Enter Satan:
"Don't you worry about that little sin....after all, didn't Jesus die for all of your sins? Thou shalt not surely die..."

Sin bringing death vs losing your salvation are two different subjects. You're off topic.

 

[Barrd]

A few questions for Barrd:

1. I'd like to revisit a point DPMartin brought up. He noted in 2 Peter 3:9 that when Peter spoke of God not being "willing that any should perish...", he was speaking specifically about "us". In other words, those of lije, precious faith-not everyone. If I have misunderstood DP's intentions, I apologize. However, I'd like to hear your comments on that point.

2. Why do you not believe that the case of Pharoah is valid? I ask because I recall several times the Bible saying God hardened his heart. Looking back on it, I seem to remember that initially, Pharoah purposed to let them go, but didn't.

3. Esau didn't have his heart right. That much is true. But he sought repentance carefully with tears, and was rejected. Later in life, I think he even reconciled with Jacob. Yet, still rejected. Care to comment?

Dear Lord, they do love giving me the hard knots to untangle....but with Your help, I will do my best!

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Okay, this one is easy. See that little word that I have bolded in?
Yeah....all. All means everyone, doesn't it? if anyone were left out, it woldn't be "all", would it? God has delayed His coming, because He is not willing that any should perish...understand that the wages of sin is death....but that all would come to repentance.
However, He cannot leave the door open forever. I believe that the "last day" has already been scheduled...but please do not ask me when it will be. I will freely admit to you that I don't have any idea. It could happen before I am finished typing this response...or, again, it might not happen for another thousand years or more.
One thing I am sure of, however....it will happen. And you, and I, and every mother's child of us will face a very real God.
Please be ready!

Pharoah.
Well, for starters, let's look at the history. Pharoah had already shown himself to be a hard-hearted individual. Beginning with Exodus 1:8, you can read about his extreme cruelty to the Israaelites who were a part of Egypt.
The cruelty that was his undoing, however, was the attempted murder of innocent infants.

Exo 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:
Exo 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

And of course, we know the rest of the story. Moses was born to an Israelite mother, and he was hidden in a basket in the Nile river, where he was found by Pharoah's daughter, who adopted him as her own son...

Fast forward to Exodus 5. We have a new Pharoah...but he doesn't seem to be any better than the other one.
After some convincing, Moses, now grown, goes to him, as instructed, to ask him to let the Israelites go. What was his response?

Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

He decided that the people had too much time on their hands. He didn't want them thinking about such things as freedom:

Exo 5:9 Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words.

So, no...Pharoah was not originally considering letting the people go. So God decided to show His great power, both to the Egyptians, who, as you know, decided not only to let them go....but to send them away in style.
Unfortunately, Pharoah later regretted this decision and chased after them...with tragic results.

Esau.
You know, I have to be honest, here. This story confuses me, too.
But I suspect it might have something to do with the women Esau chose to marry. He allowed the women to raise his children in their own faith, rather than teaching them the faith of his father, Isaac.
And Esau became Edom.
Perhaps it is the Edomites that aroused God's ire....

 

[Barrd]

Apostates..

Rom 1:32 NIV Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 John 2:18-19 NIV Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

:unsure: I thought we had this one straightened out, ATP.
An "apostate" is someone who once had faith...real faith...and, for whatever reason, turned his or her back on it.
They have deserted their faith. That doesn't mean that they never had faith....any more than a man deserting his wife means he was never married (although they might want you to think so).

As for the reference from Jude...to me that sounds a whole lot like OSAS....perverting the grace of our God into a license for immorality.

 

[Barrd]

Many can profess faith, then walk away. Yet those who possess faith, never will. The translation of the faith from the head to the heart is the critical step some never take.

Again, that is a judgment call. Only God has the right to make such judgments, because only God can see into our hearts.
You might be a great guy, Justaname, and a devout Christian, with all that infers.

But you are not God.

 

[justaname]

Barrd,

I honestly appreciate your responses but you again avoided to answer the questions I posed. If you chose not to engage me in this conversation that is fine...

As to your comment on sin, you have loaded your statement of what you think I believe.

Finally I do not believe I am God, yet I do have the special revelation given by God, the Bible.

We do know the heart is desperately wicked, so here I do have insight into the heart.
We do know God writes His laws on the hearts of those who are His so here is another insight into hearts.
We also know God I stills the fear of Him in the hearts of those who are His.

Shalom

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Evil can't dwell inside holiness. Why do you think believers can no longer be possessed by the devil.

I don't think every believer stays holy.

The devil talked to Ananias and Saphira heart and they lied to the Holy One, nothing holy about them, wrath of God killed them dead.

 

[Barrd]

Barrd,

I honestly appreciate your responses but you again avoided to answer the questions I posed. If you chose not to engage me in this conversation that is fine...

As to your comment on sin, you have loaded your statement of what you think I believe.

Finally I do not believe I am God, yet I do have the special revelation given by God, the Bible.

We do know the heart is desperately wicked, so here I do have insight into the heart.
We do know God writes His laws on the hearts of those who are His so here is another insight into hearts.
We also know God I stills the fear of Him in the hearts of those who are His.

Shalom

I thought I did answer your questions.
Was there one I missed?

As for me loading my comments on what I think you believe, you have stated that you believe the OSAS doctrine. You do know that this is Calvinism, yes? It's a part of the whole "predestination" heresy.

Yes, we know that human hearts are desperately wicked. You are a human, just as I am. That means that our hearts are both desperately wicked. Neither one of us can claim to know hearts in the way that God knows hearts.

We know that God writes His laws on the hearts of those who honestly come to Him...and we know that there are also those who will say "Lord, Lord," but He will tell them that He never knew them. We know that there are "tares among the wheat"...iow, they look, and act like Christians, but they do not produce any lasting fruit. And, as I recall, Jesus told His angels to let them grow together, lest they take the wheat with the tares....now, if He didn't think that His angels could tell the difference, what makes you think you can?

And, Justaname...I also have a Bible.

I believe that your intentions are good....I don't think for a minute that you would purposely cause harm to anyone.

I don't think it's your fault, or ATP's either, that you have gotten caught up in one of Satan's most vicious attacks on Christianity....more than likely, you were taught this doctrine in some church. It is a very popular doctrine, as, of course, that old dragon knew that it would be.

But think about it for a minute...no, I mean, really think about it.
The whole predestination thing is obviously geared to divide the people of God...it is geared to our pride. Oh, how lovely, to think that we are the pre-destined ones! Doesn't it make you feel good to think that God chose you before the foundation of the world...chose YOU above all those thousands of other people? It's an appeal to our pride.
And, of course, since we are "pre-destined", it isn't going to matter what we do...we cannot lose our salvation. We are God's favorites...didn't He choose us Himself? The obvious conclusion is that we are "better" than those millions of evil unbelievers, with their desperately wicked hearts.

But it's an empty pride, of course.
And you know, I'm sure, that pride goes before destruction...

Maybe it's not coming across in my posts, Justaname, but I want you to know that my heart breaks for folks like you, and like ATP.
You have fallen into one of the cleverest, most insidious of Satan's snares....

And I have spent a lot of time in this past month, praying for you, and others like you, who have believed this lie.

Oh, if Paul only knew how his words would be twisted and abused....how many false doctrines would be spawned by taking his words out of context.... Try to understand, Paul, bless him, was a Jewish lawyer. He had been a Pharisee of Pharisees...taught at the feet of the great Gamaliel...he was a Jewish lawyer, who wrote like a Jewish lawyer. He was a great man, but, as Peter says, there are many things in his letters that are hard to understand, and people will twist his words...to their own destruction.

 

[ATP]

:unsure: I thought we had this one straightened out, ATP.
An "apostate" is someone who once had faith...real faith...and, for whatever reason, turned his or her back on it.
They have deserted their faith. That doesn't mean that they never had faith....any more than a man deserting his wife means he was never married (although they might want you to think so).

As for the reference from Jude...to me that sounds a whole lot like OSAS....perverting the grace of our God into a license for immorality.

An apostate is a nonbeliever that follows the antichrist spirit. They deny Christ...

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

1 John 2:22 NIV Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 NIV but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7 NIV I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

 

[Barrd]

An apostate is a nonbeliever that follows the antichrist spirit. They deny Christ...

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

1 John 2:22 NIV Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 NIV but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7 NIV I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Hmmm....I guess we do not have this straightened out.
ATP, there are literally 395,000,000 dictionaries online that Google can pull up in half a second.
And every single one of them defines an apostate as someone who has deserted a former loyalty...as in someone who once had faith, but who has left his or her faith.
I have posted a few of these definitions for you...but anyone who is interested can do the same thing that I did. And so can you.
There really is no excuse for you to persist in trying to tell me that an apostate is a nonbeliever....an apostate, dear man, is someone who once was a believer, and is no longer a believer.
I realize that the term, as it is defined in those 395,000,000 dictionaries does not fit very well into the OSAS doctrine. I'm sorry about that, but once again, I did not write even one of those 395,000,000 dictionaries. They come from places like Oxford, or Cambridge. There is Mirriam Webster, that almost every English speaking person in the world is familiar with. Even Wiktionary says the same thing.
It's no use, ATP....an apostate is someone who, in spite of John Calvin, has left the faith he once truly held. Perhaps he had not been told about OSAS....but in any case, facts are facts.
2+2=4
The capitol of the United States is Washington D.C.
Roses have thorns.
And an apostate is a person who has deserted his or her faith.

No matter how many times you show me all those lovely "Blessed Assurance" verses, it's not going to change the fact that OSAS is a lie.

 

[ATP]

And an apostate is a person who has deserted his or her faith.

That's because they did not have true saving faith. They had religion, but that's not the same. They did not belong to us 1 John 2:18-19 NIV. How can I forsake God when God won't forsake me? Heb 13:5 NIV. Dictionary............................... :blink:

noun http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate
1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.

No matter how many times you show me all those lovely "Blessed Assurance" verses, it's not going to change the fact that OSAS is a lie.

By saying that OSAS is a lie, you are saying that God himself also lied to us and did not die for all sins...

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

 

[Barrd]

That's because they did not have true saving faith. They had religion, but that's not the same. They did not belong to us 1 John 2:18-19 NIV. How can I forsake God when God won't forsake me? Heb 13:5 NIV. Dictionary............................... :blink:

noun http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate
1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.


By saying that OSAS is a lie, you are saying that God himself also lied to us and did not die for all sins...

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Oh, ATP....I could post an even longer list of scriptures than this, but what is the point?
What all of these passages are really teaching is very simply this: nothing can harm the Christian who submits to God and obeys His commandments.
But, ATP... if that Christian should begin to willingly disobey and openly practice sin...for instance, the sin of adultery, or the sin of homosexual sex...he will be in open in rebellion to God...and he will be lost. When a Christian willfully sins and refuses to repent, he leaves the security of the "hand of God".

I'm sure that you, like most Christians who have spent any time at all online, have met and spoken with atheists who used to be devout Christians, but who have decided that it must be a "bronze age myth"...and just between you and me, lots of times what prompts this decision isn't really that science has made God obsolete, or that they can't find any empirical proof of God's existence, which is their "made for public consumption" excuse....the real reason they decide to leave their faith is because they are involved in some sin that God has forbidden...such as homosexuality.
Of course, you will say "they had no root in them"....which, my friend, is the whole point. They came to God, willingly...full of good intentions, wanting the joy and peace that they see in other Christians. Giving Christ their whole heart, they made a good beginning to walk in His footsteps...but then temptation came, and they fell away. Had they continued in the way they were going, they would have been saved, and their eternal destiny would have been secure....but they decided that the immediate pleasures of the flesh were worth more to them than their salvation. They will tell you that Heaven is nothing more than "pie in the sky by and by"....but the day will come when they will long for a bit of that pie...but they will not be able to attain to it.