The Doctrine of OSAS

[rockytopva]

The Barrd... I agree with your stand here.

There was an evangelist who had a vision of a soul in hell. That soul was grabbing people by the hair, pulling them up, looking at them, and then thrusting them back down. The evangelist asked the meaning of this vision and a voice replied that was it a soul in hell who was looking for the preacher who lied to him.

 

[Barrd]

All throughout the book of James describes temptation, trials, sin and death. Swim downstream Barrd, not upstream.

Yes, ATP...James knows all about apostasy, and warns against it repeatedly.

And I told you once before...if iyou are following a crowd, you are headed in the wrong direction.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd... I agree with your stand here.

There was an evangelist who had a vision of a soul in hell. That soul was grabbing people by the hair, pulling them up, looking at them, and then thrusting them back down. The evangelist asked the meaning of this vision and a voice replied that was it a soul in hell who was looking for the preacher who lied to him.

Oh, Rocky...how tragic!
If only men would stop listening to these "preachers" who earn their paychecks by pouring oil into itching ears....
And listen instead to Jesus Christ!!!!

Thank you, my friend, for your support!!

 

[ATP]

You keep taking scriptures out of context that I've been over already day after day. It's tiring.

 

[ATP]

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[ATP]

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister
Please notice....there is an IF there...

Col 1:21 NIV - This passage is about losing blessings in Christ, not salvation. Without blemish and accusation precedes verse 23. Being accused is not about losing salvation. The devil accuses us every day, but who can bring a charge against God's elect? Rom 8:33 ESV. Also, if you notice here it says we have already been reconciled through the blood of Christ shed on the cross. His blood is permanent...

Col 1:20-22 NIV and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[ATP]

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Amen.

Rom 8:31-39 is about God's elect. Neither present nor future can separate us...

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ATP]

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I can't imagine why you included this verse. You do know this is talking about Israel, yes?

The "election" are born again believers Barrd, specifically born again believers. The jews were not born again in Rom 11. They were still living in unbelief. What does "enter his rest" mean here?..............

Rom 11:20 NIV Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Rom 11:23 NIV And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Heb 3:16-19 NIV Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Heb 4:3 ESV For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[Barrd]

This chapter mentions two things that are a dead give away...condemnation and springs without water. These terms describe nonbelievers.

This is a particularly hard scripture for you to fight against, isn't it?

Note these verses from the same chapter:
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

Do you remember the story of Balaam?

Moab was quite upset by the appearance of Israel in their land...as well they might be, considering the havoc they had caused.
To make a long story short, Zippor, their king, sent for the prophet Balaam, to curse the Israelites, because, he said, the had noticed that when Balaam cursed someone they were cursed, and when he blessed someone they were blessed. What he didn't understand was that Balaam was a prophet of God, and could not go against God's will.
But Zippor waved some money at him...and he decided he'd go.
But his ass stopped him...
If you haven't read this story, you should. It's rather an amazing tale. In the end, Balaam did as God had told him to do...and Israel prevailed.

The point, dear man, is that Balaam was frustrated by a dumb beast, who knew better than he did not to defy her Creator...
Oh, if only we could all be as wise as that ass!

 

[Barrd]

You keep taking scriptures out of context that I've been over already day after day. It's tiring.

You know, I would have said exactly the same thing...of you.

 

[ATP]

You know, I would have said exactly the same thing...of you.

I'm about to give up.

 

[ATP]

This is a particularly hard scripture for you to fight against, isn't it?

Note these verses from the same chapter:
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

Do you remember the story of Balaam?

Moab was quite upset by the appearance of Israel in their land...as well they might be, considering the havoc they had caused.
To make a long story short, Zippor, their king, sent for the prophet Balaam, to curse the Israelites, because, he said, the had noticed that when Balaam cursed someone they were cursed, and when he blessed someone they were blessed. What he didn't understand was that Balaam was a prophet of God, and could not go against God's will.
But Zippor waved some money at him...and he decided he'd go.
But his ass stopped him...
If you haven't read this story, you should. It's rather an amazing tale. In the end, Balaam did as God had told him to do...and Israel prevailed.

The point, dear man, is that Balaam was frustrated by a dumb beast, who knew better than he did not to defy her Creator...
Oh, if only we could all be as wise as that ass!

I'm done with this chapter. I've said my peace.

 

[ATP]

Yes, ATP...James knows all about apostasy, and warns against it repeatedly.

And I told you once before...if iyou are following a crowd, you are headed in the wrong direction.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matt 7:13-14 NIV - This passage refers to salvation in Christ. Jesus is describing two gates, the gate to death Job 38:17 NIV, Psalm 107:18 NIV, Isa 38:10 NIV, Matt 16:18 NIV and the gate to heaven and eternal life Matt 7:14 NIV, Matt 22:14 NIV, Luke 13:22-30 NIV, John 10:9 NIV, John 14:6 NIV, Acts 14:27 NIV...(Matt 7:13-14 NIV “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.)

The word "destruction" refers to the spirit of the antichrist...(2 Thess 2:3 NIV Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.)

Also, the word "perish" refers to nonbelievers...(John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.)

 

[ATP]

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."he that believeth not" would include apostates.

Again, look that term up, ATP...don't take my word for anything I tell you, but check it out. You will find that an "apostate" is someone who has renounced his or her faith. Now, you can argue that they were never saved to begin with all you like....the fact remains, they left their faith.

How can a believer renounce their faith when everlasting life is still in them. Eternal = forever. My God.

 

[Barrd]

Matt 7:13-14 NIV - This passage refers to salvation in Christ. Jesus is describing two gates, the gate to death Job 38:17 NIV, Psalm 107:18 NIV, Isa 38:10 NIV, Matt 16:18 NIV and the gate to heaven and eternal life Matt 7:14 NIV, Matt 22:14 NIV, Luke 13:22-30 NIV, John 10:9 NIV, John 14:6 NIV, Acts 14:27 NIV...(Matt 7:13-14 NIV “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.)

The word "destruction" refers to the spirit of the antichrist...(2 Thess 2:3 NIV Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.)

Also, the word "perish" refers to nonbelievers...(John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.)

You just can't help yourself, can you?
Dear man, you are going to exegete yourself right into hell...
But I am praying for you!

Meantime, my little grandaughter is cheering tomorrow morning for the mini-mites...her school's second grade football team.
I promised I'd be there. So, with all due respect, dear man....
Good night.

 

[Barrd]

How can a believer renounce their faith when everlasting life is still in them. Eternal = forever. My God.

Look. up. the. word. for. yourself.
Then, figure it out....

 

[ATP]

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Amen. A very good reason to remain faithful.

To obtain salvation is not based on works. It's based on believing.

 

[ATP]

Look. up. the. word. for. yourself.
Then, figure it out....

You are changing the definition of eternal. that's insane.

 

[ATP]

You just can't help yourself, can you?
Dear man, you are going to exegete yourself right into hell...
But I am praying for you!

Meantime, my little grandaughter is cheering tomorrow morning for the mini-mites...her school's second grade football team.
I promised I'd be there. So, with all due respect, dear man....
Good night.

Nope, rather I'm doing your homework for you. You are good at posting scripture, I'll give you that. But it takes more than just posting...

 

[Barrd]

You are changing the definition of eternal. that's insane.

ATP, there are hundreds....maybe thousands of dictionaries online.
I'm sorry, but I didn't write them. Not even one of them.
The word "apostasy" means what it means...I didn't change it.
And I've told you....don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself.
Go to google. Type in "dictionary". Then choose from the offerings...
Pull up your chosen dictionary. Pull up several, if you like.
Type in "apostasy".
It's not hard...if I can do it, anyone can.