The Doctrine of OSAS

[ATP]

We trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross, same as you do, and we are just as aware as you are that it is our faith that saves us, and not our works, lest anyone should boast.

Hello Barrd. If you trust in the finished work of the cross then why add "hell" into your doctrine.

The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath...
Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

- ATP

 

[justaname]

Well, since I am the one who lived the experience, I'm pretty sure I can know my own heart.
And I can say with all confidence that I had put God to one side. I was deep in my sin. I was "lost".
Did God have something to do with my return to Him? Well, of course, He did. Did I not say that God had never left me, but that it was I who left Him? But all the same, there was no grabbing me by the ear and saying "get back here, young lady." There was no miracle involved, like "accidentally" coming across my Bible, or my prayer book, or anything like that. Nothing at all out of the way happened except the guy I was having an affair with revealing that he was married with children...that's it. There was a lot of weeping as I came to grips with what I had done...more, as I realized the affect my sin had on the ones I love most in all this world...my kids, who had come to look on my lover as a father. There was a lot of me trying to excuse myself....but there is no excuse for sin.

The idea that non OSASers are "working to save their own skin" is false. We trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross, same as you do, and we are just as aware as you are that it is our faith that saves us, and not our works, lest anyone should boast. Putting sin out of our lives is something that the Holy Spirit accomplishes within us, not something we do in our own strength. We are weak, and we need to acknowledge that fact. There are things that we do, because the Holy Spirit within us prompts us to do them, not because we are trying to "work to save our own skin".
You don't seem to realize....the finished work of Christ on the cross is just that. Finished. Fini. All done. Over. The gift has been purchased, and is offered to "whosoever will". The very notion of "predestination" the way you believe in it is repugnant to me. It does explain why those people who believe in it are insufferably arrogant, though. There isn't much love in a notion like that, and certainly not a drop of humility.


Again, you try to judge other people's hearts. Did I say something earlier about arrogance? Maybe those workers of iniquity are those who advocate a "do nothing" Christianity. Maybe they are the ones congratulating themselves, thinking that God chose them out of all the people in the world, before He created anything at all. Maybe they are the ones that drive people away from Jesus with their attitude, rather than bringing them closer.
I'm sure you have heard of Mahatma Ghandi...it breaks my heart that he said that he liked our Christ, but not our Christians...our Christians are so unlike our Christ. He got close enough to realize that Jesus was someone he could admire...but then the behavior of people he saw as Christ's followers disgusted him, and he decided he didn't want anything to do with Christianity.
And that is a very common attitude.
Why do you suppose that is?
I suggest that it is the "do nothing" brand of Christians who will find themselves being told to go away from Christ...they don't appear to be very close to Him to begin with.

Well, I can't really speak for Brakelite...but I'm fairly sure that he will tell you pretty much what I have told you...only he will do it much more eloquently and more beautifully than me.

Who are the "do nothing Christians"?

 

[Barrd]

Who are the "do nothing Christians"?

Those who hide behind the OSAS doctrine, thinking that because they were "once saved" that they can now live a sinful lifestyle, and God will still take them into heaven.
Those who think that, because they said some pretty words, that now Christ is obligated to them, whether they obey Him or not.
And especially, those who tell others that they need not concern themselves with working out their own salvation in fear and trembling....

 

[ATP]

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[brakelite]

Well, since I am the one who lived the experience, I'm pretty sure I can know my own heart.
And I can say with all confidence that I had put God to one side. I was deep in my sin. I was "lost".
Did God have something to do with my return to Him? Well, of course, He did. Did I not say that God had never left me, but that it was I who left Him? But all the same, there was no grabbing me by the ear and saying "get back here, young lady." There was no miracle involved, like "accidentally" coming across my Bible, or my prayer book, or anything like that. Nothing at all out of the way happened except the guy I was having an affair with revealing that he was married with children...that's it. There was a lot of weeping as I came to grips with what I had done...more, as I realized the affect my sin had on the ones I love most in all this world...my kids, who had come to look on my lover as a father. There was a lot of me trying to excuse myself....but there is no excuse for sin.

The idea that non OSASers are "working to save their own skin" is false. We trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross, same as you do, and we are just as aware as you are that it is our faith that saves us, and not our works, lest anyone should boast. Putting sin out of our lives is something that the Holy Spirit accomplishes within us, not something we do in our own strength. We are weak, and we need to acknowledge that fact. There are things that we do, because the Holy Spirit within us prompts us to do them, not because we are trying to "work to save our own skin".
You don't seem to realize....the finished work of Christ on the cross is just that. Finished. Fini. All done. Over. The gift has been purchased, and is offered to "whosoever will". The very notion of "predestination" the way you believe in it is repugnant to me. It does explain why those people who believe in it are insufferably arrogant, though. There isn't much love in a notion like that, and certainly not a drop of humility.


Again, you try to judge other people's hearts. Did I say something earlier about arrogance? Maybe those workers of iniquity are those who advocate a "do nothing" Christianity. Maybe they are the ones congratulating themselves, thinking that God chose them out of all the people in the world, before He created anything at all. Maybe they are the ones that drive people away from Jesus with their attitude, rather than bringing them closer.
I'm sure you have heard of Mahatma Ghandi...it breaks my heart that he said that he liked our Christ, but not our Christians...our Christians are so unlike our Christ. He got close enough to realize that Jesus was someone he could admire...but then the behavior of people he saw as Christ's followers disgusted him, and he decided he didn't want anything to do with Christianity.
And that is a very common attitude.
Why do you suppose that is?
I suggest that it is the "do nothing" brand of Christians who will find themselves being told to go away from Christ...they don't appear to be very close to Him to begin with.

Well, I can't really speak for Brakelite...but I'm fairly sure that he will tell you pretty much what I have told you...only he will do it much more eloquently and more beautifully than me.

Au contraire, I quite frankly couldn't be bothered with a response...I didnt think I could express the truth well enough to do what Jesus did for me justice.
You have told it like it is, and I couldn't have done it better.

 

[mjrhealth]

Those who hide behind the OSAS doctrine, thinking that because they were "once saved" that they can now live a sinful lifestyle, and God will still take them into heaven.

See and that is how is always comes about to teh works of teh law. No one has ever made that statement but those who would love to hold onto the law. When one has truly come to Christ He changes us, how does it go, from glory to glory. No its mans religion that has changed teh truth into a lie, oh you are now saved you have to beat your flesh into submission, than teh devil fill us wtih guilt because beating our flesh makes us misearble and so we deny the power of God unto salvation, because somehow God is powerless to do anything without mans intervention. once you have truly recieved Christ the only way to loose Him is to reject him, but mankind doent beleieve God can save us.

its supposd ti be all about Him we have made it all about us.

pathetic as it is.

 

[ATP]

No its mans religion that has changed teh truth into a lie

That's right mjr, and many have taken their religion to their grave.

 

[justaname]

Those who hide behind the OSAS doctrine, thinking that because they were "once saved" that they can now live a sinful lifestyle, and God will still take them into heaven.
Those who think that, because they said some pretty words, that now Christ is obligated to them, whether they obey Him or not.
And especially, those who tell others that they need not concern themselves with working out their own salvation in fear and trembling....

I hear you talking about this group, yet who actually advocates this. I have never even met these you speak of.

 

[ATP]

I hear you talking about this group, yet who actually advocates this. I have never even met these you speak of.

The devil is the accuser, and he hates the victory the cross represents.
So he implants lies and convinces Barrd, brakelite and others what we believe..
that we enjoy sin, that OSAS is a license to sin etc..the list goes on..John 8:44 NIV.
1 Cor 14:33 NIV For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people.

 

[Barrd]

I hear you talking about this group, yet who actually advocates this. I have never even met these you speak of.

Perhaps you need to come out of the shelter of ivy covered halls, and into the real world.
Attend a few Southern Baptist churches. Get to know some real, down to earth people. You know...fishermen, carpenters, boxboys, waitresses...those kinds of people.
The experience might teach you more than one of your professors.

Meantime, stop and think for a minute. I mean really think.
You tell Joe Ordinary that he need not worry about his salvation, because once he was saved, he cannot lose that salvation. All that guff about working out your salvation in fear and trembling, or obeying God's commands...forget about that. Your saved now....you were pre-chosen from the foundation of the world....

Now, Joe is a good guy...but he is not perfect. And you just gave him permission to sin. I know, you don't see it that way...but Joe...well, he works hard, but he's still up to his neck in bills, and his wife doesn't appreciate him, and his kids have reached that rebellious teen ager state....and he's tired and bored and feeling old, used, and unloved, like so many people in his situation.
And you just took some pressure off...
C'mon, we aren't stupid. What do you think is going to happen now?

Now, multiply Joe by several million, and what do you see? Why...you see the miserable state the church of God has gotten to. You see ministers who will freely admit that they don't believe half the stuff they are preaching, but it's an easy job, and it pays the bills. You see churches that are overflowing with sin...everything from people lighting up their cigarettes right after their Sunday service is over, all the way to homosexual people who are living together in a shameful sham of marriage and calling themselves "holy"...and just about everything in between. It wouldn't surprise me to find people married to their step mothers...I actually know of one case where a young woman is having an affair with her step father...they intend to marry as soon as the divorce is final, and, they want me to know that it is not a sin to fall in love. After all, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages, and besides...they are both saved.
We as Christians deplore the state of the world...and well we should.
But let me whisper a little secret into your ear, Justaname.
God's judgment doesn't begin with the world. It begins with the church. Have we been the light of the world, as we were instructed to be?
Have we lit the way to Christ...have we shined His light into the dark places, revealing the truth of sin, and what it causes?
Seems to me that our light has all but gone out.
Have we been the salt of the earth, as we were instructed, keeping it from corruption?
I'd say the salt has lost it's savor.
Now, perhaps this doctrine of demons that you guys call OSAS is not the only problem, but it is a problem. You can't tell sinful human beings that their salvation is secure, and that further sin will not separate them from God without expecting them to take you at your word...which means that iniquity is going to abound, and the love of many will wax cold...

 

[ATP]

Agape love, Rom 8:35, 38-39. Good night people.

 

[mjrhealth]

And you just gave him permission to sin.

See twisting words, no one ever says that except those who strive to keep the law. But than you have to truly have accpted His grace or you are not really saved in the first place. Parroting words in a chuch does nothing for ones salvation.

I would love to understand why law keepers are so obseesed about sin??

In all His Love

 

[H. Richard]

Those who hide behind the OSAS doctrine, thinking that because they were "once saved" that they can now live a sinful lifestyle, and God will still take them into heaven.
Those who think that, because they said some pretty words, that now Christ is obligated to them, whether they obey Him or not.
And especially, those who tell others that they need not concern themselves with working out their own salvation in fear and trembling....

Some people build a stawman of a child of God WANTING TO SIN. I know of no child of God who knows the helplessness of the sinful nature WANTING TO SIN. It is just the opposite. The child of God looks forward to their being removed from this sinful flesh. If your eyes are open when you read Romans 7 you will se the struggle that the child of God has with his/her sinful nature. Salvation does not make your sinful nature go away. It is with you until you die. However the child of God has been placed """IN CHRIST""" by the Holy Spirit and is sealed until he/she is removed from their sinful flesh. Our hope is in what God has done on our behalf and not what we do.

Tell me, if a person can commit a sin and then pray and ask for forgiveness how is that not thinking you can have a sinful lifestyle and still be saved by pulling out the repentance card and having it punched.?

 

[Barrd]

Some people build a stawman of a child of God WANTING TO SIN. I know of no child of God who knows the helplessness of the sinful nature WANTING TO SIN. It is just the opposite. The child of God looks forward to their being removed from this sinful flesh. If your eyes are open when you read Romans 7 you will se the struggle that the child of God has with his/her sinful nature. Salvation does not make your sinful nature go away. It is with you until you die. However the child of God has been placed """IN CHRIST""" by the Holy Spirit and is sealed until he/she is removed from their sinful flesh. Our hope is in what God has done on our behalf and not what we do.

Tell me, if a person can commit a sin and then pray and ask for forgiveness how is that not thinking you can have a sinful lifestyle and still be saved by pulling out the repentance card and having it punched.?

Are you going to try to tell me that Christians are somehow "above sin"? Even Paul struggled with it!
The fact is that we are born with a "sin nature". If it were not so, we would not need a Saviour in the first place.
When I sit here and tell you that I personally know of several Baptists who are divorced and remarried, knowing that God hates divorce, but that, because they are "saved" He will overlook it, do you think I'm making that up? I told of a young woman who is having an affair with her stepfather...her mother's husband...they are planning to get married "as soon as the divorce is final"...do you think that I might be exaggerating? They will tell you that they are sorry this happened, they fell in love...you can't help falling in love, and besides, they are both "saved", so don't judge them. These kinds of things do happen, and yes, these people do fall back on the OSAS doctrine, thinking that they are going to "get away" with these sins.
We all know that the gay community is doing the exact same thing. They know it's a sin, but they were "born that way", right? And they are saved, so God will accept them anyway, and besides, the Supreme Court made it legal, so they aren't really sinning, and even if they are...well, they are saved.
How do I know these things? How many times must I say that I live in a small town in the deep south....southern Alabama? Everyone in this little town knows everyone else's business, and everyone in this town goes to one church or the other...there are three Baptist churches within walking distance of my house...one of them is in plain sight of the house. In case you didn't know, Baptists are very much into the OSAS doctrine.

And no...true repentance is certainly not the same thing as continuing in your sin and expecting to be accepted anyway. Your very sarcastic remark about "pulling out the repentance card and getting it punched" reveals a very great deal about you, and about your relationship with the Father.

 

[H. Richard]

Are you going to try to tell me that Christians are somehow "above sin"? Even Paul struggled with it!
The fact is that we are born with a "sin nature". If it were not so, we would not need a Saviour in the first place.
When I sit here and tell you that I personally know of several Baptists who are divorced and remarried, knowing that God hates divorce, but that, because they are "saved" He will overlook it, do you think I'm making that up? I told of a young woman who is having an affair with her stepfather...her mother's husband...they are planning to get married "as soon as the divorce is final"...do you think that I might be exaggerating? They will tell you that they are sorry this happened, they fell in love...you can't help falling in love, and besides, they are both "saved", so don't judge them. These kinds of things do happen, and yes, these people do fall back on the OSAS doctrine, thinking that they are going to "get away" with these sins.
We all know that the gay community is doing the exact same thing. They know it's a sin, but they were "born that way", right? And they are saved, so God will accept them anyway, and besides, the Supreme Court made it legal, so they aren't really sinning, and even if they are...well, they are saved.
How do I know these things? How many times must I say that I live in a small town in the deep south....southern Alabama? Everyone in this little town knows everyone else's business, and everyone in this town goes to one church or the other...there are three Baptist churches within walking distance of my house...one of them is in plain sight of the house. In case you didn't know, Baptists are very much into the OSAS doctrine.

And no...true repentance is certainly not the same thing as continuing in your sin and expecting to be accepted anyway. Your very sarcastic remark about "pulling out the repentance card and getting it punched" reveals a very great deal about you, and about your relationship with the Father.

Yes! God has made a way for SINNERS to be saved. If He hadn't then no one would be saved because we are (present tense) all sinners in the flesh.

What I find interesting is your saying that others sin thinking they can get away with it. You must think you never sin.

The Jewish Pharisees thought they didn't sin either and yet they murdered the Son of God. The believing Jews were committing sin when the plotted to kill Paul. The religious can see the sins of others but are blind to their own sins.

No one will come before God saying they never sinned in the flesh. God calls those that do the self righteous. By the way your saying I made a sarcastic remark is in reply to your sarcastic remark about sinners thinking they can get away with it.

When the Jews, His people, sinned by rejecting His Son Jesus, God concluded all to be sinful. Because of that fact He had a mystery (hidden) gospel called God's grace that was hidden from all men until revealed to Paul. This gospel is totally fair since all men sin. The gospel that Jesus gave to Paul for the whole word is that He (GOD) has done for mankind what mankind could not and cannot do for themselves. That is save him/her self by works of the flesh. God did all the work necessary for a person's salvation on the cross. That is His gift to mankind. It is a pity that most will not see this and instead come up with religious things they can do instead of trusting in the gospel of God's grace. Salvation is the work of God, not man..

 

[Barrd]

Yes! God has made a way for SINNERS to be saved. If He hadn't then no one would be saved because we are (present tense) all sinners in the flesh.

What I find interesting is your saying that others sin thinking they can get away with it. You must think you never sin.

The Jewish Pharisees thought they didn't sin either and yet they murdered the Son of God. The believing Jews were committing sin when the plotted to kill Paul. The religious can see the sins of others but are blind to their own sins.

No one will come before God saying they never sinned in the flesh. God calls those that do the self righteous. By the way your saying I made a sarcastic remark is in reply to your sarcastic remark about sinners thinking they can get away with it.

When the Jews, His people, sinned by rejecting His Son Jesus, God concluded all to be sinful. Because of that fact He had a mystery (hidden) gospel called God's grace that was hidden from all men until revealed to Paul. This gospel is totally fair since all men sin. The gospel that Jesus gave to Paul for the whole word is that He (GOD) has done for mankind what mankind could not and cannot do for themselves. That is save him/her self by works of the flesh. God did all the work necessary for a person's salvation on the cross. That is His gift to mankind. It is a pity that most will not see this and instead come up with religious things they can do instead of trusting in the gospel of God's grace. Salvation is the work of God, not man..

Richard, not only did I not say that I "never sin", if you've been paying attention to the thread, you would know that I actually described how I did sin and left my faith for a man.
Now, you have transgressed the law, in that you have born false witness against your neighbor...namely me. You have sinned.
But, hey, no problem, right? So you lied about me, so what? You are "saved", so your lie doesn't matter.

Now, me...I would have had to repent. But there ya go...there's the difference.

 

[justaname]

Perhaps you need to come out of the shelter of ivy covered halls, and into the real world.
Attend a few Southern Baptist churches. Get to know some real, down to earth people. You know...fishermen, carpenters, boxboys, waitresses...those kinds of people.
The experience might teach you more than one of your professors.

Funny you continue to preach no one knows the heart except God, yet you judge me here.

I will have to remember to come out of the ivy covered halls this weekend when I am ministering in the women's prison. Perhaps next weekend at the soup kitchen I should reread this post, or the following weekend when I am witnessing on the streets downtown. Or maybe the next time I am speaking the gospel to one of my customers, or ministering to one of my employees, or sharing Christ over lunch with a family of Hindus I should try to remember to come out of the ivy halls. Yeah I have to really let this point of yours sink in.

Meantime, stop and think for a minute. I mean really think.
You tell Joe Ordinary that he need not worry about his salvation,

Ok full stop here...you continually preach about keeping Jesus' commands yet you speak against this?

Matthew 6:27
"And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?

Matthew 6:34
34 “So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

or God's command through Paul.

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

because once he was saved, he cannot lose that salvation. All that guff about working out your salvation in fear and trembling, or obeying God's commands...forget about that.

I have no idea where you get this notion except in your imagination. This you continually spread your lies about. No one I have ever met teaches this. This is your false witness. What will be taught is God keeps His own. To work out, not work for, your salvation with fear and trembling...

But we don't leave it there because God didn't either!

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

It is God working His will in you! Yet you ignore this portion...

Your saved now....you were pre-chosen from the foundation of the world....

And again I have already proven salvation is presented through Scripture as a past, present, and future event. The picture you are painting is from your imagination.

Now, Joe is a good guy...but he is not perfect. And you just gave him permission to sin. I know, you don't see it that way...but Joe...well, he works hard, but he's still up to his neck in bills, and his wife doesn't appreciate him, and his kids have reached that rebellious teen ager state....and he's tired and bored and feeling old, used, and unloved, like so many people in his situation.
And you just took some pressure off...
C'mon, we aren't stupid. What do you think is going to happen now?

Now, multiply Joe by several million, and what do you see? Why...you see the miserable state the church of God has gotten to. You see ministers who will freely admit that they don't believe half the stuff they are preaching, but it's an easy job, and it pays the bills. You see churches that are overflowing with sin...everything from people lighting up their cigarettes right after their Sunday service is over, all the way to homosexual people who are living together in a shameful sham of marriage and calling themselves "holy"...and just about everything in between. It wouldn't surprise me to find people married to their step mothers...I actually know of one case where a young woman is having an affair with her step father...they intend to marry as soon as the divorce is final, and, they want me to know that it is not a sin to fall in love. After all, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages, and besides...they are both saved.
We as Christians deplore the state of the world...and well we should.

And here is the culmination of your imaginary straw-man...

Yet lets look at the facts...
The vast majority of the Church teaches the ability to lose your salvation with Roman Catholicism and Easter Orthodox creating far over half the Church. Only a small percentage of Protestant denominations actually hold to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, so your claim of this doctrine creating the condition of the Church today is completely false.

We can still look at the Southern Baptists you said I should visit...

Equal percentages of Southern Baptist pastors identify their congregations as Calvinist (30%) or Arminian (30%), according to LifeWay Research.
Jeremy Weber [ POSTED 6/19/2012 03:33PM ]

So again this shows your contentions are completely false...

Oh and no one ever gives permission to sin, this is another false witness.

But let me whisper a little secret into your ear, Justaname.
God's judgment doesn't begin with the world. It begins with the church.

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

This is the context you ripped that idea from. It is speaking about suffering for Christ's namesake...

Have we been the light of the world, as we were instructed to be?
Have we lit the way to Christ...have we shined His light into the dark places, revealing the truth of sin, and what it causes?

I would say yes. If you remember Christ is building His Church to be blameless and spotless. Are you saying He is failing at this purpose of His?

Seems to me that our light has all but gone out.
Have we been the salt of the earth, as we were instructed, keeping it from corruption?
I'd say the salt has lost it's savor.

Yes this is a bleak outlook. Perhaps you should go preach this beautiful message to the underground Church in China. Maybe you should preach this to the would be martyrs in the Middle East. No wait go tell this to all the evangelist missionaries throughout the world.

Now, perhaps this doctrine of demons that you guys call OSAS is not the only problem, but it is a problem. You can't tell sinful human beings that their salvation is secure, and that further sin will not separate them from God without expecting them to take you at your word...which means that iniquity is going to abound, and the love of many will wax cold...

Again no one teaches that sin does not separate you from God. All sin is contrary to our relationship with God. This is your false witness...

I do understand no amount of evidence or conversation will convince you of the truth. You have already made that point clear in previous posts. This still is no excuse for your false witness.

 

[justaname]

Jude


Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

 

[ATP]

John 17:26 NIV I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Rom 7:21-25 NIV So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV / 2 Cor 3:12 NIV Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us,

Col 1:3-5 NIV We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints--5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel

2 Tim 2:13 NIV if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

2 Tim 4:18 NIV The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 6:16-19 NIV Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Heb 12:22-24 NIV But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Heb 13:5 NIV Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”

1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Jude 1:1 NIV Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

 

[ATP]

God loves them but will throw them into the lake of fire? Rom 8:35, 38-39..hmm..

So let me get this straight. NON-OSAS is saying that God saves them from trouble, hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness, danger, sword, death and life, angels, rulers, things present, things to come, powers, height, depth and everything else in all creation....

then decides to throw them into the lake of fire on Judgment Day?

But how can they no longer possess agape love Matt 24:12, if they've never been separated from it? Rom 8:39 ESV,

and since the lake of fire is considered the second death Rev 20:14 NIV, and neither death nor life can separate the elect from God Rom 8:38 NIV, then wouldn't that make God a liar?

- ATP