The Doctrine of OSAS

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StanJ

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Jun2u said:
Believers are they who have become saved. It seems you are trying to limit the salvation power of God. In fact, God says what He will do and say will be accomplished. Contrary to other beliefs, when God saves someone that person will eternally be saved and will be raised up on the last day.

Firstly, if we are a believer or a child of God, we will forever be saved because that is the promise of God.

Secondly, Jesus said He will never forsake or leave us, because without Him we can do nothing.
So you saying because God WANTS all to be saved, that they will?

Firstly, that is NOT God's promise. See John 3:16

Secondly becoming apostate has nothing to do with Jesus leaving us, it has to do with us leaving Jesus. I very famous example of the latter is Charles Templeton. Google him.
 

Born_Again

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StanJ said:
So you saying because God WANTS all to be saved, that they will?

Firstly, that is NOT God's promise. See John 3:16

Secondly becoming apostate has nothing to do with Jesus leaving us, it has to do with us leaving Jesus. I very famous example of the latter is Charles Templeton. Google him.
I don't think that is what the intended message was. I think Jun was saying that if someone is saved, they are always saved. That God will lift them up on the last day.. Essentially, OSAS
 

StanJ

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Born_Again said:
I don't think that is what the intended message was. I think Jun was saying that if someone is saved, they are always saved. That God will lift them up on the last day.. Essentially, OSAS
I was dealing with the first part of his post where he said "God says", and then followed it up with his opinion rather than what God actually said, which is why I asked him what I did.
 

Jun2u

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StanJ said:
So you saying because God WANTS all to be saved, that they will?

God only saves those He elected to salvation before the foundation of the world. But if God wishes to save all He can do that. There is nothing impossible to God. God abides by His own rules and He does not have a set of rules for Himself and another for man.


John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the world and also the most misunderstood passage.

Secondly becoming apostate has nothing to do with Jesus leaving us, it has to do with us leaving Jesus. I very famous example of the latter is Charles Templeton. Google him.do

By nature man is a reprobate and desperately wicked so I wouldn't be surprised if they din't acknowledge Jesus as God.

Sorry, unless they are in the Bible I don't mix secular men with the things of God, after all, their best work is still tainted by sin.

To God Be The Glory
 

StanJ

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Jun2u said:
God only saves those He elected to salvation before the foundation of the world. But if God wishes to save all He can do that. There is nothing impossible to God. God abides by His own rules and He does not have a set of rules for Himself and another for man.


John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the world and also the most misunderstood passage.



By nature man is a reprobate and desperately wicked so I wouldn't be surprised if they din't acknowledge Jesus as God.

Sorry, unless they are in the Bible I don't mix secular men with the things of God, after all, their best work is still tainted by sin.

To God Be The Glory
That IS in dispute, but NOT what I asked. You're skirting the issue. What God's rules are, as you put it, are in His word and they are NO different for anyone.

Yes, it seems all OSASers don't understand it.

Now all you doing is using your dogmatic vernacular. Where does the Bible say man is a reprobate?

Everything is in the Bible, so I have no idea what this means? Might help if you actually ADDRESSED issues instead of just denying them.
 

mjrhealth

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Everything is in the Bible,
Actually you may find that God would disagree with that statement. If you took Gods infinite wisdom and knowlegde and compared it too the bible, it would be like comparing an atom to teh universe. It says in the bible ,

Joh_21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

How we belittle God,

God only saves those He elected to salvation before the foundation of the world.
and that my firend is a lie, Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, for God was set out to save us all, but He gave us choice and we are not good at choosing even when only given two we tend to choose the wrong one. I am not going to do what so many do and stick God in a box, God hasnt given us all His plans, and I know from experirnce it would be foolish of him to do so, we cant even fullfill the small things in His plan how much less can we do the bigger ones. I will just let Him do His work and rejoice when it is done, and worship Him all teh more for it.

in all His Love
 

Jun2u

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StanJ said:
Now all you doing is using your dogmatic vernacular. Where does the Bible say man is a reprobat?
For the sake of your accusations that I do not address issues but instead deny them, I will let the Bible speak for me so that you may understand perfectly.

Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

and that my firend is a lie, Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, for God was set out to save us all, but He gave us choice and we are not good at choosing even when only given two we tend to choose the wrong one.

If what you contend is true that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind that means God cannot send anyone to hell because all of man's sins are paid for. Even in this country, a man cannot be charged for the same crime twice. It is called double jeopardy. Likewise, there is no sin that a man have committed in the past that will bring him to hell and answer for that sin again.

This business of choice or free will as coined by theologians and pastors, is alien to the Bible! Free will is never taught in scriptures.

To God Be The Glory
 

ATP

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Jun2u said:
This business of choice or free will as coined by theologians and pastors, is alien to the Bible! Free will is never taught in scriptures.
Then why are you preaching?
 

Jun2u

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ATP said:
Then why are you preaching?
I thought I was merely doing the work of the Lord as He gave me a command to TEACH all nations to observe all things that He had commanded as per Matthew 28:20

When a child of God declares the word of God isn't he preaching?

To God Be The Glory
 

StanJ

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Jun2u said:
For the sake of your accusations that I do not address issues but instead deny them, I will let the Bible speak for me so that you may understand perfectly.

Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Ahh yes the KJV, which is where that dogma spawned from, but which is NOT on what the Greek states.

And as they did not see fit to acknowledge · God, God gave them over · to a debased mind, to do things that ought not to be done.

But just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men are opposing the truth, men who have been corrupted in the mind, worthless concerning the faith.

They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny him, being abominable and disobedient and worthless for any good work.

Now unless you believe the KJV is inspired, you should use a modern, functionally equivalent, English translation, if you expect to really get to the heart of what scripture DOES convey.
 

ATP

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Jun2u said:
I thought I was merely doing the work of the Lord as He gave me a command to TEACH all nations to observe all things that He had commanded as per Matthew 28:20

When a child of God declares the word of God isn't he preaching?

To God Be The Glory
But there's no free will. Whether you preach or not God has already chosen his elect before they were born. There is no choice.
 

KingJ

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Jun2u said:
God only saves those He elected to salvation before the foundation of the world. But if God wishes to save all He can do that. There is nothing impossible to God. God abides by His own rules and He does not have a set of rules for Himself and another for man.
Amen to the underlined. God's rules is that He is the epitome of GOOD Psalm 136:1. It is for that reason that we give thanks. In Him their is no darkness AT ALL 1 John 1:5.

Now for God to uphold who He is, He has to give free will. Favouritism is evil. God is not evil. Calvinists actually believe in an evil God. Not sure how in the universe anyone would even care to serve such a God. Do you actually believe that the God you believe in is worth serving?
 

Jun2u

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ATP said:
But there's no free will. Whether you preach or not God has already chosen his elect before they were born. There is no choice.

The Bible is full of principles and one of them is:

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”

In other words, for any one to be saved he must be under the hearing of the true Gospel. Those whom God elected before the foundation of the world are the ones who will respond to the Gospel.

For example, when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in Elizabeth's womb.


KingJ said:
Amen to the underlined. God's rules is that He is the epitome of GOOD Psalm 136:1. It is for that reason that we give thanks. In Him their is no darkness AT ALL 1 John 1:5.

Now for God to uphold who He is, He has to give free will. Favouritism is evil. God is not evil. Calvinists actually believe in an evil God. Not sure how in the universe anyone would even care to serve such a God. Do you actually believe that the God you believe in is worth serving?

I give thanks to God not only because He is good, but most of all because He loved and saved me, a dirty rotten sinner., and I serve a Wonderful God of the Bible!!!

To God Be The Glory
 

ATP

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Jun2u said:
The Bible is full of principles and one of them is:

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”

In other words, for any one to be saved he must be under the hearing of the true Gospel. Those whom God elected before the foundation of the world are the ones who will respond to the Gospel.

For example, when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in Elizabeth's womb.
So there is free will. There is a choice.
 

KingJ

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Jun2u said:
I give thanks to God not only because He is good, but most of all because He loved and saved me, a dirty rotten sinner., and I serve a Wonderful God of the Bible!!!

To God Be The Glory
What exactly do you believe He saved you from? You think any of mankind was ever en route to hell because of sin?

Favoritism is evil. God is not evil. Calvinism debunked ;).
 

ATP

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KingJ said:
Jesus saves NOBODY from hell!!!!!
You have got to be kidding. Not only does Jesus save you from hell, He also gives you eternal life! Give me a break.

If neither death nor life can separate us from God Rom 8:38-39 NIV, and the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14, then God must be a liar.
 

Jun2u

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ATP said:
So there is free will. There is a choice.

When a person has been elected to salvation before the foundation of the world, that person will automatically become saved at some point in his life before he dies. There is no free will or choice here.

For example, the thief on the cross who was saved an hour or two before he died. Did he display any free will or had a choice? Sometimes God sets up principles like what we read in Ro 10:17.

To God Be The Glory.
 

StanJ

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Jun2u said:
When a person has been elected to salvation before the foundation of the world, that person will automatically become saved at some point in his life before he dies. There is no free will or choice here.

For example, the thief on the cross who was saved an hour or two before he died. Did he display any free will or had a choice? Sometimes God sets up principles like what we read in Ro 10:17.

To God Be The Glory.
Nobody is elected to salvation. The elect are already saved.