The Doctrine of OSAS

[Barrd]

Okay we are in agreement that Christ finished it at the cross. So for clarification, what did Christ "FINISH" at the Cross???

He is our sacrifice for sin. The debt has been paid, and the gift of salvation made available.
All that is necessary is for us to accept that gift.

However, the idea that having accepted it, now means that, no matter what you do, or don't do, you can't lose it is a bit ridiculous.
Yes, Jesus will give you the strength you need to resist temptation, and yes, He stands ready to forgive you should you "mess up."
That doesn't mean that you can sin with impunity and still expect to be forgiven and still go to heaven.
There is a beautiful passage that talks about the love of Christ...
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A beautiful passage, isn't it?
There is that bit in there about being sheep for the slaughter...and we know that there have been many martyrs for our faith. It's so easy to say that we would be willing to die for Him. Peter said that he would go to the cross with Jesus...but when the moment came, he denied that he even knew Him.

Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? That list seems pretty comprehensive, doesn't it?
But there is one thing that is not on that list, and that one thing can separate us from Christ.
That one thing is sin....

 

[mjrhealth]

And what is that sin,"unbelief,disobedience", it is the only thing. Why are so many troubled by sin,

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Salvation is by Grace, a free gift, cant be earnt nor bought, by faith, requiring you to believe it is the Power of God, but only if you believe, and so many dont. They have made God powerless ....

In all His Love

 

[ladodgers6]

He is our sacrifice for sin. The debt has been paid, and the gift of salvation made available.
All that is necessary is for us to accept that gift.

However, the idea that having accepted it, now means that, no matter what you do, or don't do, you can't lose it is a bit ridiculous.
Yes, Jesus will give you the strength you need to resist temptation, and yes, He stands ready to forgive you should you "mess up."
That doesn't mean that you can sin with impunity and still expect to be forgiven and still go to heaven.
There is a beautiful passage that talks about the love of Christ...
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A beautiful passage, isn't it?
There is that bit in there about being sheep for the slaughter...and we know that there have been many martyrs for our faith. It's so easy to say that we would be willing to die for Him. Peter said that he would go to the cross with Jesus...but when the moment came, he denied that he even knew Him.

Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? That list seems pretty comprehensive, doesn't it?
But there is one thing that is not on that list, and that one thing can separate us from Christ.
That one thing is sin....

Thanks for answering my question. Now allot of people do not understand what Christ actually accomplished on the Cross. Here you are correct in saying, "He is OUR sacrifice for sin, and He PAID the debt." But then you say that is it ridiculous to say that the ones for whom Christ PAID the debt for, and sacrifice himself for can't lose their salvation. So what you give with the right hand you take away with the left. So that I am clear here, I am talking about how a sinner is justified before a Holy God. I am not speaking here of the sanctification process of the believer. People confuse, and mix these two and create entirely another Gospel that Paul warned the Galatians about. Christ also teaches this in Luke 18, where Christ depicts between the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. One went home justified and not the other. I'll let you read it for yourself. Because I strongly encourage people to read references themselves to understand and confirm the truth. Do not take people at face value. Do your homework.

Anyway back to my point. If Christ paid the FULL DEBT for us. Then why do people perish. Is Christ not good enough to be a sacrifice for sin??? Did he PAY THE DEBT for sin??? Did Christ pay for the sins of believers too? Over and over Christ says that his sheep know his voice and follow him. That his sheep WILL NEVER PERISH, because nobody can snatch them out of his Father's hand. How am I taking this out of context? This is the Gospel Ladies & Gentlemen. But people want to add to this by saying that we NEED TO DO this or that in relation to justification by Faith Alone. This is precisely what Paul rebuked the false apostle for. Paul cursed them for perverting the pure Gospel of Christ by mingling the Gospel with Law. Paul says in Galatians that we are either saved by works of the Law or Faith, but it cannot be both.

Just like the Pharisee who judged and condemned people for not being like them. The Pharisees even prayed to God saying I am glad I am not like them. The Pharisee boast about his good works. Then came the Tax Collector knowing he was quilty and could not even look to heaven, he fell to knees and beg God to have mercy on him, a sinner! The tax collector went home justified.

So in relation to justification by faith Alone, means that we trust in Christ and what he has done through his perfect obedience . These are the only works acceptable to a Holy God; perfect righteousness. And we receive this good news as a gift. There is nothing required of us here, IT TOTALLY FREE! We trust, hope and have assurance and confidence only in Christ and nowhere else including our works as believers.

 

[Barrd]

Thanks for answering my question. Now allot of people do not understand what Christ actually accomplished on the Cross. Here you are correct in saying, "He is OUR sacrifice for sin, and He PAID the debt." But then you say that is it ridiculous to say that the ones for whom Christ PAID the debt for, and sacrifice himself for can't lose their salvation. So what you give with the right hand you take away with the left. So that I am clear here, I am talking about how a sinner is justified before a Holy God. I am not speaking here of the sanctification process of the believer. People confuse, and mix these two and create entirely another Gospel that Paul warned the Galatians about. Christ also teaches this in Luke 18, where Christ depicts between the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. One went home justified and not the other. I'll let you read it for yourself. Because I strongly encourage people to read references themselves to understand and confirm the truth. Do not take people at face value. Do your homework.

What Christ actually accomplished was to present the gift of salvation to the entire world. Yet the entire world is not saved. In spite of the fact that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, still most people do not come to repentance, and will perish. We have free will to choose...or not. And that doesn't end once we are saved. We still have free will to walk away from God. We are justified through Christ, but lets not ever forget that faith without works is dead. And dead faith cannot save anyone.
Now, I don't usually post my writing in these threads, but in this case, I feel it is justified...if only to let you know that I have, indeed, done my homework:

Two men went to the synagogue​

To offer up their prayers to God​

Men as different as could be​

A publican and a Pharisee​

And as they went along their way​

The Lord did listen to them pray​

​

The Pharisee looked up with pride​

"Thank You, Lord" he loudly cried​

"For I am a man among the best​

Separated from the rest​

I am better than most other men​

Even than this publican"​

​

The publican fell to his knees​

"Lord, have mercy on me, please!​

For my sin I bear the blame​

Oh, Lord, I cannot hide my shame!​

Forgive a sinner such as I!​

Oh, Lord, I beg You, hear my cry"​

​

Which prayer, then, did the Good Lord hear​

Which heart the Holy One hold dear?​

Who went back down to his place​

Justified before God's face​

"Humble yourself", the Savior said​

For the Lord will raise the humble head​

​

To keep this post from getting too long, I will continue to answer you in the next post...

 

[Barrd]

Anyway back to my point. If Christ paid the FULL DEBT for us. Then why do people perish. Is Christ not good enough to be a sacrifice for sin??? Did he PAY THE DEBT for sin??? Did Christ pay for the sins of believers too? Over and over Christ says that his sheep know his voice and follow him. That his sheep WILL NEVER PERISH, because nobody can snatch them out of his Father's hand. How am I taking this out of context? This is the Gospel Ladies & Gentlemen. But people want to add to this by saying that we NEED TO DO this or that in relation to justification by Faith Alone. This is precisely what Paul rebuked the false apostle for. Paul cursed them for perverting the pure Gospel of Christ by mingling the Gospel with Law. Paul says in Galatians that we are either saved by works of the Law or Faith, but it cannot be both.

Yes, Christ paid the FULL DEBT...or, more correctly, He accepted the FULL WAGE for our sin. So, answer your own question...why do people perish?
I think you may have missed the point that His sheep hear His voice...they listen to Him...and they follow Him...they obey Him. Jesus very plainly said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments...so evidently, there is something that we must do.
The Gospel includes all the instructions that Christ left for us. Such as loving our neighbor as ourselves, including loving our enemies. Including those two great commandments, which wrap up the original Ten. We can't just say a little "sinner's prayer" and expect to go on living as we had been, and expect to find ourselves in Heaven. No, we aren't saved by works of the law...but our works are the evidence of our faith.
"They will know we are Christians, by our love, by our love...yes they'll know we are Christians by our love..."

Just like the Pharisee who judged and condemned people for not being like them. The Pharisees even prayed to God saying I am glad I am not like them. The Pharisee boast about his good works. Then came the Tax Collector knowing he was quilty and could not even look to heaven, he fell to knees and beg God to have mercy on him, a sinner! The tax collector went home justified.

Exactly. Both of these people believed in God. But both of them were not justified by that belief alone. The tax collector did something...he repented.

So in relation to justification by faith Alone, means that we trust in Christ and what he has done through his perfect obedience . These are the only works acceptable to a Holy God; perfect righteousness. And we receive this good news as a gift. There is nothing required of us here, IT TOTALLY FREE! We trust, hope and have assurance and confidence only in Christ and nowhere else including our works as believers.

If we trust, hope, and have assurance and confidence in Christ, we will love and obey Him.
The minute and second that we stop loving and obeying Him, we lose our salvation. If, as you are saying, it is TOTALLY Free...then why isn't the whole world saved?

 

[StanJ]

Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

 

[Barrd]

Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

And all of God's children say:

AMEN

 

[ATP]

Barrd: The minute and second that we stop loving and obeying Him, we lose our salvation.

 

[Barrd]

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[ATP]

Barrd, John 15 is an allegory. We're not sinless robots, your doctrine is silly.

 

[ladodgers6]

He is our sacrifice for sin. The debt has been paid, and the gift of salvation made available.
All that is necessary is for us to accept that gift.

However, the idea that having accepted it, now means that, no matter what you do, or don't do, you can't lose it is a bit ridiculous.
Yes, Jesus will give you the strength you need to resist temptation, and yes, He stands ready to forgive you should you "mess up."
That doesn't mean that you can sin with impunity and still expect to be forgiven and still go to heaven.
There is a beautiful passage that talks about the love of Christ...
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A beautiful passage, isn't it?
There is that bit in there about being sheep for the slaughter...and we know that there have been many martyrs for our faith. It's so easy to say that we would be willing to die for Him. Peter said that he would go to the cross with Jesus...but when the moment came, he denied that he even knew Him.

Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? That list seems pretty comprehensive, doesn't it?
But there is one thing that is not on that list, and that one thing can separate us from Christ.
That one thing is sin....

Before I retort to this post. I still have a question that I have posed to you.

What promise did God make with Abraham?

I will address your post, but please answer the question so I can connect the dots.

 

[justaname]

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 14:8-10

Interesting here this verse speaks of absence of election and perseverance...even of those predestined for captivity...without question God's hand is at work here.


The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. - Revelation 17:8


Clearly some are written before the foundations of the world while some have not been written...

Then there are Jesus' words...

Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." - Luke 10:20

Or here...
Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. - Philippians 4:3

And again...

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love - Ephesians 1:4

God knows His sheep by name...these are the only ones to receive salvation...

The atonement is efficient for all yet it is only effective for those who believe...

 

[justaname]

Here then is the gospel as described through the word of God...

1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

We surely know some believe in vain...I submit all those who go apostate are the ones spoken of here. They never had salvation. Paul qualifies this with the word translated unless. This contrasts believed in vain with being saved. Those who believed in vain are not being saved.

It is important to note Paul states this is the gospel by which you are being saved. Here he lays out the requirement for salvation.

All that is spoken of is faith or belief...this is the requirement for salvation. All other actions of works are not the requirement rather the result of salvation. This is because we are His workmanship.

If you are working love to keep your salvation your love is in vain for it is self seeking.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. - Galatians 5:6

 

[ladodgers6]

Barrd: The minute and second that we stop loving and obeying Him, we lose our salvation.

Scripture please. This statement is a works righteousness salvation that Paul warned the Galatians about. We perform good works because of our salvation, not to gain salvation. What you say here is not the Gospel but Law. You need to understand the pure Gospel that Paul preached. And not to be put back into bondage under the Law. Because we are not under the Law , but under Grace.

 

[Barrd]

Before I retort to this post. I still have a question that I have posed to you.

What promise did God make with Abraham?

I will address your post, but please answer the question so I can connect the dots.

Retort? How about "reply"...it sounds so much friendlier.

I did answer you about Abraham, way back when you asked the first time...post #1611. (Recent events have convinced me that, if I'm going to post in this forum, I'd best keep screen shots. You never know...you may have to show proof of what you actually posted. Word to the wise )
But I do not mind answering again.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[Barrd]

Scripture please. This statement is a works righteousness salvation that Paul warned the Galatians about. We perform good works because of our salvation, not to gain salvation. What you say here is not the Gospel but Law. You need to understand the pure Gospel that Paul preached. And not to be put back into bondage under the Law. Because we are not under the Law , but under Grace.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Or, since you guys just gotta have it from Paul:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[justaname]

Retort? How about "reply"...it sounds so much friendlier.

I did answer you about Abraham, way back when you asked the first time...post #1611. (Recent events have convinced me that, if I'm going to post in this forum, I'd best keep screen shots. You never know...you may have to show proof of what you actually posted. Word to the wise )
But I do not mind answering again.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Just a FYI everything that is posted is recorded here still even if you can't see it...

Thought you might like to know...

 

[Barrd]

Just a FYI everything that is posted is recorded here still even if you can't see it...

Thought you might like to know...

That's good to know.
But if you don't mind, I think I'll keep a record anyhow...

Safe not sorry, you know...

 

[StanJ]

Before I retort to this post. I still have a question that I have posed to you.

What promise did God make with Abraham?

I will address your post, but please answer the question so I can connect the dots.

This is getting old. How about you just make your points without all the subterfuge, or are you expecting all these dots to magically appear?

 

[StanJ]

The gospel is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Paul shows us that in 1 Cor 2:2

Why is this so hard to comprehend?