The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[101G]

Well done!

Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

question to both of you, is the letter from one person or three person....

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

That's true, that is what is says!

now since you agree, lets see if you can apply it to post #41 ....

well.

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

@Dcopymope, first thanks for the reply. so lets take your post one at a time ok.

I need not use only one scripture,
Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".

is this Jesus or the one whom you call the Father in reference to the "Almighty".

Looking to hear from you.

PICJAG.

And I need not only use but one scripture as well:

(John 1:1-5) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {2} The same was in the beginning with God. {3} All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. {4} In him was life; and the life was the light of men. {5} And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

Right from the very beginning of the book, the two distinct persons of the Godhead are made very clear. In the beginning, Jesus was the "word", who was God, and was with God, and became flesh. This is why Jesus can also claim to be the "Alpha and Omega", because technically he was, not as "God Almighty", but as "the word". John continues this writing style into revelation, referring to Jesus as the "word of God", and to the Father as "God Almighty". And even from the very beginning of the book , the distinction between the "word of God" and "God Almighty" is made crystal clear. Anybody can rob scripture of its context by only quoting bits and pieces of it like you do, so I shall demonstrate proper exegesis.

(Revelation 1:1-8) "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: {2} Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. {3} Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. {4} John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; {5} And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, {6} And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. {7} Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. {8} I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

And as we can see in the next few scriptures, even the very description of the appearance of the "Son of Man" in heaven is distinct from that of "God Almighty".

The Son of Man:

(Revelation 1:12-17) "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; {13} And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. {14} His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; {15} And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. {16} And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. {17} And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

God Almighty:

(Revelation 4:2-3) "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. {3} And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."

(Ezekiel 1:26-28) "¶ And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. {27} And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. {28} As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."

And once again, there are many more scriptures that clearly point to two distinct individuals in the God head I didn't quote before.

(Revelation 7:9-17) "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. {11} And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, {12} Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. {13} And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. {15} Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. {16} They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. {17} For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

In the midst of the throne, not sitting on the throne, because that seat belongs to his Father. Jesus has his own seat.

(Revelation 12:5) "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

 

[101G]

Answering Post #33.
it's amazing people post something and then just run off without a defence, not worries for reckoning "DAY" is coming... (smile).

Now the Seven Spirits of God is referencing the Holy Spirit. Who sent the Holy Spirit according to John? Jesus himself makes it pretty clear that his "Father" sends it, because as John plainly states, the Holy Spirit belongs to the Father, not to his son, or the "word of God".

well lets see who sent the Holy Spirit, you said, “Jesus himself makes it pretty clear that his "Father" sends it,”. lets see if this is so clear, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”. well the Lord Jesus said he will send the Comforter, did Jesus Lie? ... well.

now your second part of your statement, you said, ”because as John plainly states, the Holy Spirit belongs to the Father, not to his son, or the "word of God” well you just shot your own-self in the foot. because if the Holy Spirit belong to the Father, then he’s not a separate and distinct nor an equal co-person as your drinity doctrine states. … (smile). that ignorant statement just killed you own doctrine. my, my, my. my

Now the first real instance in which they are clearly depicted as two different characters in revelation is chapter 5. John gives a description of 'God Almighty' sitting on the throne with the book containing the seven seals in his right hand. An angel then asks who is worthy to open the book to unleash the seals within it, at which point no man in heaven or earth was found worthy.

So the Father is sitting on the throne, because he’s the “Almighty?” well then if it’s the almighty who is sitting on the throne, please explain who gave the “Almighty” power. listen ,Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created". so please give book, chapter and verse as to who gave the almighty “POWER”. because if he's "ALMIGHTY" how can he receive power when he has it all... another shot in the foot of the trinity....

But then one of them shouts that a man he calls the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" has come and taken the book out of the right hand of that other guy that sat on the throne and opens it, at which point they all sing praises about this guy they also call the "Lamb" for redeeming them unto God, the other guy who sits on the throne.

the other "guy"...lol, lol, lol. well you have half of the verse right, which means it's all wrong... listen, the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah", here, it is the "ROOT" which means that it is the Spirit, who is "BEFORE" David... .. say what, yes before Jessie, David father, and before Abrahan, and before Adam. see you missed the "ROOT" in that verse. another ERROR on your part. as said, a half truth is nothing but a full lie in disguise. another fail understanding on your part. that other "guy"? ... lol. man oh man.

The next instance where they are depicted as distinct individuals is in revelation 18. The chapter starts off with "much people" in heaven giving praises to the "Lord our God" for his judgement on the "woman", the great whore that rode the beast.

since you are not with understanding as who the Lord God is, we'll help you to get out of DARKNESS, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".
another ERROR on your Part in not understanding the scriptures.

tommorrow we will get to the other two post #34 and #35. I cain't wait .... lol.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

YOU SAID, "(John 1:1-5) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {2} The same was in the beginning with God. {3} All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. {4} In him was life; and the life was the light of men. {5} And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
well, well, well. if they are distinct as you say, then reconcile the verse YOU gave, John 1:3 who is the WORD, the Son, "WHO made all things". with Isaiah 44:24 who the "LORD" the almighty whom you calls the Father, listen and weep. "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself"

the PERSON in Isaiah 44:24 states he's "ALONE" and by HIMSEL" meaning A. he didn't go through anuone else, because he was "BY HIMSEL", which also eliminate any other person in the Godhead.
conclusion either you're lying that the Word, the son the Lord is not the same person in Isaiah 44:24 or the bible is lying.and I know the bible is not lying, so that narrow it down...

two creators = you and your doctrine, or the Bible = ONE creator. ...... the bible is right.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

now since you agree, lets see if you can apply it to post #41 ....

well.

PICJAG.

Let's see if you can apply it to anything that you quoted. I don't agree with not one of your exegesis.
You took one verse to establish every point that you made, and every point that you made was outrageous, i.e. that Jesus and the Father are the same.
To prove such an enigmatic and radical conclusion, requires a whole dissertation. So that simply proving each step that you took to get to your conclusion, with a single verse, makes you look incompetent. Seriously!

 

[Dcopymope]

Let's see if you can apply it to anything that you quoted. I don't agree with not one of your exegesis.
You took one verse to establish every point that you made, and every point that you made was outrageous, i.e. that Jesus and the Father are the same.
To prove such an enigmatic and radical conclusion, requires a whole dissertation. So that simply proving each step that you took with a single verse, makes you look incompetent. Seriously!

Yeah, I've debated with this guy before about the nature of the Godhead. I couldn't reason with him about it back then, and I ain't expecting any different now. The only reason why I even bothered participating in this thread was for all else to see the folly in his interpretations. I think I've said all that needs to be said about this issue, not gonna sit here discussing at length what is plainly stated in scripture to the willfully dense. Just like I explained to the people on here who erroneously believe they will be snatched out of here on the Day of the Lord that revelation states nothing of the kind whatsoever, that it in fact does NOT occur on the day of the last trumpet, I'll just leave this issue about the Godhead to time as well, because time always tells the truth in the end.

 

[DNB]

Yeah, I've debated with this guy before about the nature of the Godhead. I couldn't reason with him about it back then, and I ain't expecting any different now. The only reason why I even bothered participating in this thread was for all else to see the folly in his interpretations. I think I've said all that needs to be said about this issue, not gonna sit here discussing at length what is plainly stated in scripture to the willfully dense. Just like I explained to the people on here who erroneously believe they will be snatched out of here on the Day of the Lord that revelation states nothing of the kind whatsoever, that it in fact does NOT occur on the day of the last trumpet, I'll just leave this issue about the Godhead to time as well, because time always tells the truth in the end.

Yes, I'm feeling the exact same way, that this is a completely futile endeavour. I joined in just as an opportunity to denounce the trinity, and was curious as to where 101G stood in regard to his Christology. Once discovered, and getting a taste of his exegetical practices, I'm not sure which is worse, trinity or diversified oneness?
Equally both, of course!

 

[Dcopymope]

Yes, I'm feeling the exact same way, that this is a completely futile endeavour. I joined in just as an opportunity to denounce the trinity, and was curious as to where 101G stood in regard to his Christology. Once discovered, and getting a taste of his exegetical practices, I'm not sure which is worse, trinity or diversified oneness.
Equally both, of course!

Diversified oneness is by far the most absurd to me, because it asserts that Jesus is equal with his Father when he clearly isn't. 101G calls Jesus omniscient, yet he receives revelation about the end times from his Father. If he was really all knowing, he wouldn't need to receive prophecy "from God" or anyone else to start with because he already knows the future. He can't have it both ways, he's either all knowing or he is not. The Father is called God Almighty for a reason, because he is above Jesus and all other lower case gods. All prophecy comes from the Father just like the holy spirit comes from him, because its his spirit, not Jesus Christ's.

 

[DNB]

Diversified oneness is by far the most absurd to me, because it asserts that Jesus is equal with his Father when he clearly isn't. 101G calls Jesus omniscient, yet receives revelation about the end times from his Father. If he was really all knowing, he wouldn't need to receive prophecy "from God" or anyone else to start with because he already knows the future. The Father is called God Almighty for a reason, because he is above Jesus and all other lower case gods. All prophecy comes from the Father just like the holy spirit comes from him, because its his spirit, not Jesus Christ's.

Agreed entirely, but the trinitarians consider Jesus to be omniscient and omnipotent too, right? But, you have a point that maybe DO is a level of absurdity higher than trinitarianism, because at least that latter can differentiate between the two, as two separate entities, despite calling them both God.

 

[Dcopymope]

Agreed entirely, but the trinitarians consider Jesus to be omniscient and omnipotent too, right? But, you have a point that maybe DO is a level of absurdity higher than trinitarianism, because at least that latter can differentiate between the two, as two separate entities, despite calling them both God.

Exactly, that's why the trinity is the more widely believed doctrine, because it makes more sense, and is more compatible with scripture. The trinity doctrine is correct in that it calls Jesus God as well as the Father, as distinct entities of the Godhead. It also correctly asserts a chain of command within the God head in a sense. But even so, where it still goes wrong is when it gives attributes of the Father being all knowing and all powerful to his subordinate, as you say. So yes, the issues with it are basically the same as diversified oneness, its just the latter takes the absurdities to another level, because it basically claims that Jesus literally is the Father, which is impossible.

 

[Base12]

 

[DNB]

There's not a single trinitarian that has induced their doctrine from the created order of things. For, not one trinitarian adherent can even make sense out of what they believe, not one.
Thus, according to trinitarian theology:
Father = Neutron
Word = Proton
Holy Ghost = Electron
Trinity = Moron

 

[Enoch111]

Is the doctrine of the trinity true or not.

Of course it is true. So why don't you abandon your false beliefs, and believe the Bible?

All your wordy posts mean nothing if you are promoting lies. Since the time of the apostles, all genuine Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And if that is not sufficient to establish the truth of the Trinity, then nothing will suffice for the naysayers.

 

[101G]

Of course it is true. So why don't you abandon your false beliefs, and believe the Bible?

All your wordy posts mean nothing if you are promoting lies. Since the time of the apostles, all genuine Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And if that is not sufficient to establish the truth of the Trinity, then nothing will suffice for the naysayers.

GINOLJC, to all.
first I thank my Lord and saviour for this opportunity to speak with him. Now to the business at hand. for years the trinity Doctrine believers has been changing their statements about the trinity.
1. they went from the statement that there are three God to three persons. which was a lie from the beginning, and they seen it and changed it. anytime the supposed truth has to under go changes then one need to wonder was that the truth in the first place, for truth don't change.

2. Now they say the Titles "Lord" and "LORD" are interchangeable, which this poster just exposed his own doctrine again, by using the baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. if the titles are interchangeable then there is no separate and "DISTINCT" persons. which leads to another posters of the trinity doctrine admitted by saying the persons have Modes.... are you kidding me. see how the doctrine chang as needed.

3. The Doctrine of the trinity has been exposed in their goto scripture Genesis 1:26 where the Lord Jesus himself, exposes the trinity there by acknowledging that he, and not "us" or "our" made man. which leads us to #4. as to who made all things. this has never been answered.

4. Who "MADE ALL THINGS". when by the Lord Jesus this question was asked, excuse after excuse came without any truth in it. some say the lord Jesus went "through" the Father to make everything, which is an ERROR, for the person in Isaiah 44:24 clearly said that he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF". so now the trinity believers are stuck in explaining and or reconciling John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. Only one poster on this fourm told the truth when saying it's the same person in both scriptures. I commend this poster for telling the truth. all the trinity believers know it's the same person, but if they admit it then all their belifs falls flat on it face. instead of accepting the truth they would rather keep a lie. for the scriptures are correct, "men love darkness more than Light".

5. now one poster went to revelation to prove the trinity, man was that a mistake. one of them quoted chapter 5 as to who sits on the throne, they said the "Father", if that was true, then I asked "Who gave the Father POWER", quoting, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created". so I'll be looking for that answer. hopefully today.

6. and the original scriptures given by a poster that's in the OP none have been responded to. if these scriptures are so true to your beliefs one should have been out in full force in defending them.

7. Many trinity believers accuse me of modalism, and when I call their bluff their respond was so weak even I couldn't even believe it. but I would like to make a point about the trinity and modalism. the trinity is nothing but modalism in reverse, the "GREAT DELUSION", scripture, Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not".

yes, a fear is coming on many of them who have not heard the TRUTH before. this fear is GOOD, for it is the beginning of KNOWLEDGE of God, scripture, Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction".

Now today I'll be responding to Post #34 and #35. follow if you can.

PICJAG

 

[101G]

Diversified oneness is by far the most absurd to me, because it asserts that Jesus is equal with his Father when he clearly isn't. 101G calls Jesus omniscient, yet he receives revelation about the end times from his Father. If he was really all knowing, he wouldn't need to receive prophecy "from God" or anyone else to start with because he already knows the future. He can't have it both ways, he's either all knowing or he is not. The Father is called God Almighty for a reason, because he is above Jesus and all other lower case gods. All prophecy comes from the Father just like the holy spirit comes from him, because its his spirit, not Jesus Christ's.

this is the kind of natural understanding, that, "NATURAL", carnal minded men think. in Revelation 1:1 many think that it's two person standing side by side one gave the other a revelation... lol, bless their littl hearts. but this is where some are at and we must go to level and help many to stand in the truth.
then ignorantly the poster said, "If he was really all knowing, he wouldn't need to receive prophecy "from God" or anyone else to start with because he already knows the future". this we see they know nothing of God's permissive will. lets expose this nonesense.
again the beauty of "diversity" the answer is in the "will" of God. God have a "will", a plan. and it is clearly seen in the Godly principle of Matthew 6:3. listen, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". question, how can one do something themselves without knowing about it. your right hand, and left hand is a part of you. the answer, because you "will" it not to be known. sound strange? NO, Let’s see how God do it. scripture, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". see that? "and I (will) remember their sin no more". HOLD IT, how can almighty, all knowing God not remember? Answer, it's an act of the will. he wills "not" to remember. just as he said in Matthew 6:3b "let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth", "let" is an act of the will. so how do all of this relates to our Lord's not knowing his return date. answer, Revelation chapter 5. our Lord, Jesus is sitting on the throne. what happens? the Spirit, (the Father, the Holy Ghost), the LAMB, without BLOOD, NOW GLORIFIED, comes and takes the book out of his hand, question, which hand did he take the book out of?, the right hand. Remember Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". by the Father, (the Holy Spirit), taking the book out of his own "RIGHT" hand he, the Lord Jesus, wills not to KNOW his return DATE. because the book contains all the information of what's the come. so, only the Father, (the Holy Spirit), knows because the father took the book out of his own "RIGHT" hand. by our Lord being in flesh and bone, and as mediator, he fulfills the DAVIDIC PROPHECY, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". The until is written in the book that was in the Lord's right hand, with the seals unbroken. So the Lord Jesus statement is true, no one knows only he who took the book, and that’s the FATHER. and it is the Father/Holy Spirit who is now on earth, making his enemy his footstool.
Another mystery cleared up, by knowing diversity.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Post #34, Dcopymope said, or posted scripture,
(Revelation 19:4-6) "And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. {5} And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. {6} And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."

At which point attention is directed towards the "Lamb", Jesus, and his second coming with his army, as the "Word of God".

(Revelation 19:7-10) "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. {8} And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. {9} And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. {10} And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

The "Word of God":

Well lets put an end to this right now. the scriptures are the truth but how they are applied are in question, lets clear up who the Lord God, the Word really is. scripture,
1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

ok, Dcopymope, you want to prove the Lord Jesus, the Word is a separate and distinct person? well read verse 16 above, ""Who only hath immortality". Who ONLY, ONLY, have immorality? understand Dcopymope, if the Lord Jesus is the ONLY ONE with Immorality, that means the so called other two person in your trinity don't have Immortality, or "ETERNAL LIFE". so that eliminates any other second or third person in any Godhead.

so I'll be looking for your answer to this question.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

Of course it is true. So why don't you abandon your false beliefs, and believe the Bible?

All your wordy posts mean nothing if you are promoting lies. Since the time of the apostles, all genuine Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And if that is not sufficient to establish the truth of the Trinity, then nothing will suffice for the naysayers.

First of all Enoch111, you just cited one of the most unanimously disputed text in the Bible, the Comma Johanneum. Even your most ardent proponents do not accept it as an authentic Biblical text.
Secondly, most non-trinitarian groups believe in the existence, distinction, and autonomy of the Father, Holy Spirit and Jesus. But, what most sound exegetes state though, is that they all do not have the same ontology, and that the Holy Spirit is simply a gift from the Father, to empower the elect.

In other words, such an expression as the Comma Johanneum, does not necessitate a trinity.
And, most importantly, what an utterly pathetic proof-text to try and establish something so incomprehensible, so absurd and contradictory, so convoluted, as the doctrine of the trinity. Why in the world can you not just cite the verses that say the words trinity, triune, god-man, God the son, three-in-one, two-in-one, etc... Especially as you trinitarians claim, that it is the most paramount doctrine in all the Bible.
You mock God with this heretical doctrine, in more ways than you can imagine!

 

[DNB]

Post #34, Dcopymope said, or posted scripture,
(Revelation 19:4-6) "And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. {5} And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. {6} And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."

(Revelation 19:7-10) "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. {8} And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. {9} And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. {10} And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Well lets put an end to this right now. the scriptures are the truth but how they are applied are in question, lets clear up who the Lord God, the Word really is. scripture,
1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

ok, Dcopymope, you want to prove the Lord Jesus, the Word is a separate and distinct person? well read verse 16 above, ""Who only hath immortality". Who ONLY, ONLY, have immorality? understand Dcopymope, if the Lord Jesus is the ONLY ONE with Immorality, that means the so called other two person in your trinity don't have Immortality, or "ETERNAL LIFE". so that eliminates any other second or third person in any Godhead.

so I'll be looking for your answer to this question.

PICJAG.

DCM is not trinitarian 101G, you'll have to refute him with different logic and proof-text. He is denouncing the diversified oneness heresy.

 

[101G]

DCM is not trinitarian 101G, you'll have to refute him with different logic and proof-text. He is denouncing the diversified oneness heresy.

if he's not then he's supporting the trinity by his posts, or he's just ignorant of the truth, but no mind, I'll let him speak for himself. but I would like for him to answers the question I have put forth unto him. and if he has any for me I will gladly answer.

and while we're on Dcopymope posting, did you read this in what he said, if he's aganis "diversified Oneness?". "All prophecy comes from the Father just like the holy spirit comes from him, because its his spirit, not Jesus Christ's". is this the one who is not a trinitarian as you claim? did he not know that CHRIST is the Spirit of prophecy. lets get educated as to whom the prophecy comes from,. supportive scripture,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".

STOP and THINK, the "Spirit" of Christ? yes, it was christ in the OT in, in, in, the ptophets testifying, or prophesying of the things to come. and yes, Jesus is the Holy Spirit without flesh and bone and Blood in the OT, lets see it, 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". BINGO, the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ without flesh and blood in the OT. that plain as DAY. see only "diversified Oneness" can explain how the Lord Jesus is the Holy Ghost in the OT, the Father, and at the same time in the Christ... in the NT.....

PICJAG.