The end of the world, as taught by Christ, separates the wicked from the just at the harvest, and it is coming for you.

[Scott Downey]

I agree, the tares are pulled out of the kingdom at the harvest, end of the age and I also agree there are only two conditions of mankind, either saved or unsaved.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What is your explanation for how the tares get into the kingdom in the first place when only the saved can enter the kingdom?

Well how about this?
Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Christ takes up His great power and reigns. He takes over, in a sense, an invasion if you like. To the winner goes the spoils.

The field is the world, and the earth is the Lord's, ultimately He does what He wants with His own things.
Satan is a liar, and either lies about the world being given to him, or he stole it.

Psalm 24

1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the [a]waters.

 

[grafted branch]

Well how about this?
Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Christ takes up His great power and reigns. He takes over, in a sense, an invasion if you like. To the winner goes the spoils.

The field is the world, and the earth is the Lord's, ultimately He does what He wants with His own things.
Satan is a liar, and either lies about the world being given to him, or he stole it.

Psalm 24

1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the [a]waters.

The tares are sown in His field. Does Jesus loose possession of His field then regain it again?

 

[Davidpt]

The tares are sown in His field. Does Jesus loose possession of His field then regain it again?

Since the parable is using real world imagery, try comparing it with a real world example. Like such, maybe.

A farmer has a field of wheat, but while the farmer and his farmhands slept, someone came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Explain how that would mean the farmer ever loses possession of the field at any time? It's still his field, is it not? It is still on his property, is it not? Just because someone trespassed on his property and did those things while he was asleep, how does that equal the farmer ever losing possession of his field at any time?

 

[grafted branch]

Since the parable is using real world imagery, try comparing it with a real world example. Like such, maybe.

A farmer has a field of wheat, but while the farmer and his farmhands slept, someone came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Explain how that would mean the farmer ever loses possession of the field at any time? It's still his field, is it not? It is still on his property, is it not? Just because someone trespassed on his property and did those things while he was asleep, how does that equal the farmer ever losing possession of his field at any time?

Right, I agree, the farmer never lost possession of His field.

Saying the tares enter the kingdom at the very end of the age, when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, creates that problem of the farmer losing His field then getting it back.

Another way the Amils are trying to get around that problem is by saying there are two distinct kingdoms of heaven. One in which tares can be sown and one in which only saved people can enter.

 

[Scott Downey]

The tares are sown in His field. Does Jesus loose possession of His field then regain it again?

I view it more like He allows-permits evil things to happen. Which He does, just look at human history.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, I agree, the farmer never lost possession of His field.

Saying the tares enter the kingdom at the very end of the age, when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, creates that problem of the farmer losing His field then getting it back.

Another way the Amils are trying to get around that problem is by saying there are two distinct kingdoms of heaven. One in which tares can be sown and one in which only saved people can enter.

No Amil claims that, so you are making a straw man argument. Jesus contrasted the people of the kingdom (represented by the wheat) with the people of the wicked one (represented by the tares) (Matt 13:38). The people of the kingdom are in the kingdom of heaven and the people of the wicked one (Satan) are in Satan's kingdom. At the end of the age, Jesus will send His angels to separate those who are in the kingdom of the wicked one from those who are in His kingdom (the kingdom of heaven) and He will deliver His kingdom to the Father at that time which is why He said at that time "Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt 13:43).

 

[grafted branch]

I view it more like He allows-permits evil things to happen. Which He does, just look at human history.

I view it more like He allows-permits evil things to happen. Which He does, just look at human history.

Well, I agree God does allow evil things to happen to saved people, people who are in the kingdom, but I don’t think the tares represent evil events, they represent children of the wicked. According to John 3:5 a person must be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom.

 

[grafted branch]

No Amil claims that, so you are making a straw man argument. Jesus contrasted the people of the kingdom (represented by the wheat) with the people of the wicked one (represented by the tares) (Matt 13:38). The people of the kingdom are in the kingdom of heaven and the people of the wicked one (Satan) are in Satan's kingdom. At the end of the age, Jesus will send His angels to separate those who are in the kingdom of the wicked one from those who are in His kingdom (the kingdom of heaven) and He will deliver His kingdom to the Father at that time which is why He said at that time "Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt 13:43).

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

The angels gather out of His kingdom, so somehow the tares got into His kingdom without being born of water and Spirit. Wouldn’t it make sense to just say the tares entered the kingdom before the only way to enter it became by water and Spirit?

 

[NayborBear]

The end of the world, as taught by Christ, separates the wicked from the just at the harvest, and it is coming for you.​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

The angels gather out of His kingdom, so somehow the tares got into His kingdom without being born of water and Spirit. Wouldn’t it make sense to just say the tares entered the kingdom before the only way to enter it became by water and Spirit?

You're not interpreting that correctly, but, unfortunately, it's partly because of the way that verse is worded. If you look at the parable as a whole and read everything He said about it, you should see that all He meant there was that He has His angels separate the children of the wicked one from the children of His kingdom at the end of the age.

That's exactly what He indicated in this similar parable:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

The angels gather out of His kingdom, so somehow the tares got into His kingdom without being born of water and Spirit. Wouldn’t it make sense to just say the tares entered the kingdom before the only way to enter it became by water and Spirit?

Don't overcomplicate this. Water and Spirit allusion is we are saved by God, but the tares never were saved being of the devil.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Ezekiel 36:25-27
Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

 

[grafted branch]

You're not interpreting that correctly, but, unfortunately, it's partly because of the way that verse is worded. If you look at the parable as a whole and read everything He said about it, you should see that all He meant there was that He has His angels separate the children of the wicked one from the children of His kingdom at the end of the age.

That's exactly what He indicated in this similar parable:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

In this verse we have the kingdom be taken from the chief priest and Pharisees.



Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

In this verse we see that the scribes and Pharisees are able to control who enters the kingdom of heaven.



When I look at these verses it points to a time period where a person didn’t necessary have to be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom. At the end of that age is when the tares are removed. This view would also agree with Matthew 13:47-50.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

In this verse we have the kingdom be taken from the chief priest and Pharisees.

Yeah. So? You think the tares only refer to the chief priests and Pharisees?

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

In this verse we see that the scribes and Pharisees are able to control who enters the kingdom of heaven.

Why do you take that so literally? Do you never consider whether or not your interpretation of one verse is contradicting any other verses? Do you believe the scribes and Pharisees had more influence over who enters the kingdom of heaven than the preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit?

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

When I look at these verses it points to a time period where a person didn’t necessary have to be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom.

What are you talking about? Please explain.

At the end of that age is when the tares are removed. This view would also agree with Matthew 13:47-50.

Right. The end of this temporal age. When Jesus contrasted this age with the age to come it was always in the sense of this age being temporal and the age to come being eternal (Luke 20:34-36, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30).

 

[grafted branch]

What are you talking about? Please explain.

Prior to the gospel being preached, prior to the cross, people entered into the kingdom through the old covenant rules. That is how the tares got into the kingdom, after the cross the new covenant came into force and the only way to enter the kingdom from then on was by water and Spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Prior to the gospel being preached, prior to the cross, people entered into the kingdom through the old covenant rules.

What do you mean by this? How do you think people entered into the kingdom during old covenant times?

That is how the tares got into the kingdom, after the cross the new covenant came into force and the only way to enter the kingdom from then on was by water and Spirit.

The tares were never in the kingdom. Jesus contrasted the children of the kingdom, represented by the wheat, with the children of the wicked one, represented by the tares.

 

[grafted branch]

What do you mean by this? How do you think people entered into the kingdom during old covenant times?

They got in just as Matthew 23:13 says …

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

The tares were never in the kingdom. Jesus contrasted the children of the kingdom, represented by the wheat, with the children of the wicked one, represented by the tares.

The tares were sown into His field which could only have taken place under the old covenant. Under the new covenant it’s only by water and spirit.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do …

Also in Matthew 13:37 the word “sowing” <4687> is a present tense verb, so we know the Son of man was sowing when He spoke those words, during the old covenant age.