The Falling Away In 2 Thessalonians

[WhiteKnuckle]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 10 2009, 01:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72263
Great conversation by the way whiteknuckle keep pushing it until you fully understand God doesn't say that he says he will not allow the Elect to be fooled ...because he will shorten the time to keep from happening IF IF it were possible(god will make sure its not possible) Gods shortens the time so this does not happen ..but your are missing the main point of this God is warning us that the DELUSION will be so great .... That IF it were possible even the very Elect would be fooled. The Elect are not just believers they are the very chosen of God to fight against Antichrist ... Yet this DELUSION WILL BE SO GREAT THAT NOT ONLY THE ENTIRE WORLD BUT EVEN HIS VERY CHOSEN COULD IF HE ALLOWED BE FOOLED ...God will not allow it ...but that doesnt change the fact that this DELUSION will like nothing man has ever witnessed .... Another reason I say this is not just some human person claiming he is a messiah ... This is something so great that if we do not prepare our minds with Gods truth before we are will be in danger of being taken in.
That just proves my point. Firstly, the delusion isn't for Christians, it's for those who have chosen not to recieve Jesus. You're right, he shortens the days, not only so we wont be decieved, but to save our flesh as well. It's also to save us troubles in our hearts. The fact that us as Believers are in the Word of God, and know the signs and the Lord has made it plain to us, we cannot be decieved. I know for a fact that I wont be. Here's a prime example right here.Anyone see those statues drinking milk from spoons? Sure, it's "miraculous". Did it make any of you doubt the Lord? Surely not. But it decieved many, including people who "professed" to believe in Christ.

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 10 2009, 02:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72268
QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 10 2009, 01:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72263
Great conversation by the way whiteknuckle keep pushing it until you fully understand God doesn't say that he says he will not allow the Elect to be fooled ...because he will shorten the time to keep from happening IF IF it were possible(god will make sure its not possible) Gods shortens the time so this does not happen ..but your are missing the main point of this God is warning us that the DELUSION will be so great .... That IF it were possible even the very Elect would be fooled. The Elect are not just believers they are the very chosen of God to fight against Antichrist ... Yet this DELUSION WILL BE SO GREAT THAT NOT ONLY THE ENTIRE WORLD BUT EVEN HIS VERY CHOSEN COULD IF HE ALLOWED BE FOOLED ...God will not allow it ...but that doesnt change the fact that this DELUSION will like nothing man has ever witnessed .... Another reason I say this is not just some human person claiming he is a messiah ... This is something so great that if we do not prepare our minds with Gods truth before we are will be in danger of being taken in.
That just proves my point. Firstly, the delusion isn't for Christians, it's for those who have chosen not to recieve Jesus. You're right, he shortens the days, not only so we wont be decieved, but to save our flesh as well. It's also to save us troubles in our hearts. The fact that us as Believers are in the Word of God, and know the signs and the Lord has made it plain to us, we cannot be decieved. I know for a fact that I wont be. Here's a prime example right here.Anyone see those statues drinking milk from spoons? Sure, it's "miraculous". Did it make any of you doubt the Lord? Surely not. But it decieved many, including people who "professed" to believe in Christ.Are you kidding me? Christians can also be deceived... Christians who does not follow the Word of God are in danger to be taken by Satan. Hence the reason Matthew 7:21-23 is referring to Christians, to believers.Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 10 2009, 12:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72268
That just proves my point. Firstly, the delusion isn't for Christians, it's for those who have chosen not to recieve Jesus. You're right, he shortens the days, not only so we wont be decieved, but to save our flesh as well. It's also to save us troubles in our hearts. The fact that us as Believers are in the Word of God, and know the signs and the Lord has made it plain to us, we cannot be decieved. I know for a fact that I wont be. Here's a prime example right here.Anyone see those statues drinking milk from spoons? Sure, it's "miraculous". Did it make any of you doubt the Lord? Surely not. But it decieved many, including people who "professed" to believe in Christ.
You are right to a point The Elect can not be deceived God wont allow it ..but not everyone is NOT of the Elect ..Therefore many Christians that believe falsely that are not aware of whats going to happen because they either did not bother to read it or listened to men over God .. or just plain were never taught any meat ....Will be deceived only the Elect and those that overcome to the End ... will be the first resurrected ... Many many Christians will be deceived because they are taught you do not have to understand whats going to happen you are going to gone NOT TRUE.... Everyone must go through the harvest of the End times ...the only question is will you be harvested by the fake christ or the true Christ.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 10 2009, 04:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72276
You are right to a point The Elect can not be deceived God wont allow it ..but not everyone is NOT of the Elect ..Therefore many Christians that believe falsely that are not aware of whats going to happen because they either did not bother to read it or listened to men over God .. or just plain were never taught any meat ....Will be deceived only the Elect and those that overcome to the End ... will be the first resurrected ... Many many Christians will be deceived because they are taught you do not have to understand whats going to happen you are going to gone NOT TRUE.... Everyone must go through the harvest of the End times ...the only question is will you be harvested by the fake christ or the true Christ.
Case in point right there Christina. Not everyone is of the elect, that's a fact. I don't think the ones still on the "milk" will be decieved though. It will trouble them to the very core, and the ones that truely aren't saved will be decieved and fall away. The rest will search out people that know and will be saved. I also believe that God is all powerful and all Knowing. And prior to that time he will pour out his Spirit on the world as promised. God has planned everything and is in total control. He's prepared some completely, and left some unprepared according to his pleasure and will. Some of the unprepared will surely be made aware. Just like everything God does, He always prepares the way. From the old testament from Moses, all the way to the end when Jesus returns the second time. I leave this post with this. "To whom much is given much will be required" (This is for those who have been prepared and given knowledge of the truth for the end times as well as other times) and this one. "Not all of you should presume to be teachers" (This is for those who have not been prepared and given complete knowledge of the truth for the end times, as well as other times)

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 10 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72314
... the ones that truely aren't saved will be decieved and fall away. The rest will search out people that know and will be saved. I also believe that God is all powerful and all Knowing. And prior to that time he will pour out his Spirit on the world as promised. ...
How can someone "fall away" if they are not saved in the first place? What are they "falling away" from? The very act of "falling AWAY" means you must be part of the WAY first or you can not fall from it.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 10 2009, 09:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72314
Case in point right there Christina. Not everyone is of the elect, that's a fact. I don't think the ones still on the "milk" will be decieved though. It will trouble them to the very core, and the ones that truely aren't saved will be decieved and fall away. The rest will search out people that know and will be saved. I also believe that God is all powerful and all Knowing. And prior to that time he will pour out his Spirit on the world as promised. God has planned everything and is in total control. He's prepared some completely, and left some unprepared according to his pleasure and will. Some of the unprepared will surely be made aware. Just like everything God does, He always prepares the way. From the old testament from Moses, all the way to the end when Jesus returns the second time. I leave this post with this. "To whom much is given much will be required" (This is for those who have been prepared and given knowledge of the truth for the end times as well as other times) and this one. "Not all of you should presume to be teachers" (This is for those who have not been prepared and given complete knowledge of the truth for the end times, as well as other times)
Its not some of the milkers I worry about as I agree God protects innocense ..its the ones following false doctrines that are perfectly able to understand but chose of their own free will to follow men lies and wont believe a Word God says and they try mislead milkers thats my concern ... And your right about teachers they are held more responsable and if they lead his sheep astray they will be judged for it ...

 

[dan p]

QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 9 2009, 05:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72193
I think you are beyond help, Dan. What do you think it would be to "fall away?" Do you think someone is just going to fall off a table or down some stairs? Do be so foolish. What does the word apostasy? The renunciation of a religious belief, you know like falling away! What is it to "a defection , revolt , or a departure?" Come on wake up!
1) The 2 views are pre-tribb or post-tribb , so I am not surprised by your reponse , and we all have the right to be wrong , and I feel that I am right , so lets move on . You can not help me , am I can not help you , but only the Holy Spirit can enlighten each of us . 2) You can just call me mis-understood , like you are , and ONly a good Dispensationalist will understand me .

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (dan p @ Apr 11 2009, 07:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72387
1) The 2 views are pre-tribb or post-tribb , so I am not surprised by your reponse , and we all have the right to be wrong , and I feel that I am right , so lets move on . You can not help me , am I can not help you , but only the Holy Spirit can enlighten each of us . 2) You can just call me mis-understood , like you are , and ONly a good Dispensationalist will understand me .
I can live with that.

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 3 2009, 12:16 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71682
Long story short, I can absolutely understand how people can be mislead. I was there, but, I also understand this too, "To decieve the very elect, if it were possible" It's not possible to decieve a child of God with false doctrine, even if it seems like he might be lost, it's just a momentary confusion, and the Lord will bring them back those that belong to him! "no one can snatch them out of my hand"By this, I'm wondering if the "Great falling away" is actually apostasy, or if it's Saved people being mislead and going astray, but still saved and going to be called back during the tribulation, as they will see then with their own eyes, the prophesy and the things of God.
Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will take the mark of the beast......."EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE." I know I am written in the book of life. I know Christ will be with me to lead me through a time that Rev 12:10-11 (last part) For the accuser of the brethren who accuses them day and night has been hurled down to the earth, they overcame him by the "BLOOD OF THE LAMB" and by the WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY; THEY DID NOT LOVE THEIR LIVE SO MUCH AS TO SHRINK FROM DEATH. I have the testimony of Jesus and the only thing the wicked of this world can do is put me to sleep to wait for the voice of my King who wrote me in the book of Life to raise me up to everlasting life. Be encouraged! It is only sleep and it don't feel so bad, cause I've been there before and God brought me back to finish His works IN ME. Amen! VickieQUOTE (stone @ Jan 18 2009, 01:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=67977
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The falling away is translated from the word apostasia, [from the greek manuscripts of the new testament,] from which we get the word apostacy. It is refering to falling away from the faith.American heritage dictionary. definitionapostacy--an abandonement of one's religious faith, political party or cause.It has absolutely nothing to do with the rapture or any kind of leaving of the Holy Spirit. That is simply false teaching by false prophets. The antichrist will not want Christians preparing for persecution, so false prophecy is arising in the churches pushing the pre trib rapture idea. The Christians falsely thinking they will simply leave before the trouble starts, will leave them unprepared for the future persecution of the antichrist against them.
You said it very well, and those who know this truth agree. God is not slack in opening the eyes of his elect to understand the times we are in and HE is preparing those of us who are the elect. There is no fighting with truth and we accept it. We will be with our Lord at our side and we will have our impurities worked out of us as this is God's plan. Zechariah 13:9Vickie

 

[Martin W.]

Has anyone else ever considered the following:" ..... many will fall away from the faith and will betray and hate each other ....... " Notice it does not say they will lose their salvation. Just fall away from faith.Remember faith is variable , some have great faith , some do not , maybe some 'fall away' and yet are still saved. Is it possible they are saved as one barely escaping through the flames as mentioned elsewhere in the bible ??Let us not kid ourselves , betrayal and hatred can be found here on this forum , in our churches , in evangelical settings , all under the Christian label. We do not have to wait for the end times for it. It will be worse in the end but it has been here from the beginning. Don't kid yourself.I look forward to anyone here who considers 'the fallen away ones' may indeed still be saved.Personally , I do not take a strong position on it , but I certainly see the possibility. Thanks.Martin W.

 

[Stumpmaster]

QUOTE (Martin W. @ Apr 12 2009, 12:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72404
Has anyone else ever considered the following:" ..... many will fall away from the faith and will betray and hate each other ....... " Notice it does not say they will lose their salvation. Just fall away from faith.Remember faith is variable , some have great faith , some do not , maybe some 'fall away' and yet are still saved. Is it possible they are saved as one barely escaping through the flames as mentioned elsewhere in the bible ??Let us not kid ourselves , betrayal and hatred can be found here on this forum , in our churches , in evangelical settings , all under the Christian label. We do not have to wait for the end times for it. It will be worse in the end but it has been here from the beginning. Don't kid yourself.I look forward to anyone here who considers 'the fallen away ones' may indeed still be saved.Personally , I do not take a strong position on it , but I certainly see the possibility. Thanks.Martin W.
It depends on your definition of "fallen away", Martin.I have personal knowledge of people from different parts of our country who have fallen away from church attendance and regular fellowship with other Christians, but who still pray, read and study the Bible, and live by Christian principle's, except the Hebrews 10:25 injunction of, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."On the other hand I am aware of many professing Christians who do good works and attend church but who also use profanity, lie, steal and cheat, etc. When the former Senior Pastor of a large local church was exposed as having committed adultery with a number of women over a two year period whilst he was also Superintendent of his denomination, many of his "followers" gave up on "church" and became disgruntled and inactive in matters of the faith. For myself I take the following Scripture seriously as a rule to live by in order to make my calling and election sure, and to prevent myself from falling away regardless of temptations, trials, and tribulations.2Peter 1:4-10 "Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (5) And besides this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; (7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. (8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purified from his old sins. (10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:

 

[Martin W.]

QUOTE (Stumpmaster @ Apr 12 2009, 12:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72405
It depends on your definition of "fallen away", Martin.I have personal knowledge of people from different parts of our country who have fallen away from church attendance and regular fellowship with other Christians, but who still pray, read and study the Bible, and live by Christian principle's, except the Hebrews 10:25 injunction of, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."On the other hand I am aware of many professing Christians who do good works and attend church but who also use profanity, lie, steal and cheat, etc. When the former Senior Pastor of a large local church was exposed as having committed adultery with a number of women over a two year period whilst he was also Superintendent of his denomination, many of his "followers" gave up on "church" and became disgruntled and inactive in matters of the faith. For myself I take the following Scripture seriously as a rule to live by in order to make my calling and election sure, and to prevent myself from falling away regardless of temptations, trials, and tribulations.2Peter 1:4-10 "Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (5) And besides this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; (7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. (8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purified from his old sins. (10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
StumpYou said it very well . Thank you.I have pretty much observed the same things. I shocked one congregation by pointing out to them they were all guilty of hero worship. They had been so enamoured by a popular pastor for years and when they found out he was doing his secretary and skimming the offering plate to pay for motel rooms the whole church was about to break up.I pointed out they were not breaking up a church . You can not break something you don't have. What they were breaking up was a fan club for a popular Pastor who entertained them every Sunday. Let it break up !!!Your comments on yourself and 2Peter1:4-10 have more value in Christianity than a lot of the other show business out there. I also know many very strong Christians who have never set foot in a denominational church. I find it very encouraging to observe this grassroots strength of Christianity.Martin W.

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (Martin W. @ Apr 11 2009, 11:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72404
Has anyone else ever considered the following:Is it possible they are saved as one barely escaping through the flames as mentioned elsewhere in the bible ??Let us not kid ourselves , betrayal and hatred can be found here on this forum , in our churches , in evangelical settings , all under the Christian label. We do not have to wait for the end times for it. It will be worse in the end but it has been here from the beginning. Don't kid yourself.I look forward to anyone here who considers 'the fallen away ones' may indeed still be saved.Personally , I do not take a strong position on it , but I certainly see the possibility. Thanks.Martin W.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be annulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it Isa 28:19 As often as it comes it will carry you away, morning after morning, by day and by night, it will sweep throughThe UNDERSTANDING OF THIS MESSAGE WILL BRING SHEER TERROR. 20.) " The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket to narrow to wrap around you." 21.) The Lord will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon--to do "HIS STRANGE WORK" and perform his task, HIS strange task.24.) When a farmer plows for planting, does he plow continually? Does he keep on breaking up and harrowing the soil? 25.)When he has leveled the surface does he now sow caraway seed, scatter cumin? Does he not plant wheat in its place? barley in its plot and spelt in its field26.) His God instructs him and teaches him the right way. 27.) Caraway is not threshed with a sledge, nor is a cartwheel rolled over cummin? Caraway is beaten out with a ROD and cummin with a STICK.28.) Grain must be GROUND to make BREAD. So, one does not go one threshing it forever. Though he drives the wheels of his threshing cart over it, His Horsesdo not grind it. 29,) All this also comes from the Lord Almighty, wonderful in counsel and magnificent in wisdom. God in his wisdom is describing the time of his ending this AGE of man, we have often read the wheat will be removed from the tares by the harvesters at the End of the AGE which is what verse 24 refers to. There is Caraway, which is Persian. Cumin is native to Arabic speaking Syria.Barley is a major animal feeding grain. We know that there will be many dead bodies left for the vultures to eat. Spelt (Triticum spelta) is a hexaploid species of wheat, a hybrid. the Spelt God appears to teach and instruct him directly the right way as verse 26 points out. IMHO I would say the Apostles are Spelt. We can only guess on this for God has hidden the complete meaning and to say we know for sure would not truthful. It could mean the Elect, the 1/3 that God is keeping out to go through the fire as Zechariah 13:9 tells us The Plowman is ready to complete what the farmer has started. Your answer lies within these passages. Vickie

 

[Martin W.]

QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 12 2009, 09:49 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72415
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be annulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it Isa 28:19 As often as it comes it will carry you away, morning after morning, by day and by night, it will sweep throughThe UNDERSTANDING OF THIS MESSAGE WILL BRING SHEER TERROR. 20.) " The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket to narrow to wrap around you." 21.) The Lord will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon--to do "HIS STRANGE WORK" and perform his task, HIS strange task.24.) When a farmer plows for planting, does he plow continually? Does he keep on breaking up and harrowing the soil? 25.)When he has leveled the surface does he now sow caraway seed, scatter cumin? Does he not plant wheat in its place? barley in its plot and spelt in its field26.) His God instructs him and teaches him the right way. 27.) Caraway is not threshed with a sledge, nor is a cartwheel rolled over cummin? Caraway is beaten out with a ROD and cummin with a STICK.28.) Grain must be GROUND to make BREAD. So, one does not go one threshing it forever. Though he drives the wheels of his threshing cart over it, His Horsesdo not grind it. 29,) All this also comes from the Lord Almighty, wonderful in counsel and magnificent in wisdom. God in his wisdom is describing the time of his ending this AGE of man, we have often read the wheat will be removed from the tares by the harvesters at the End of the AGE which is what verse 24 refers to. There is Caraway, which is Persian. Cumin is native to Arabic speaking Syria.Barley is a major animal feeding grain. We know that there will be many dead bodies left for the vultures to eat. Spelt (Triticum spelta) is a hexaploid species of wheat, a hybrid. the Spelt God appears to teach and instruct him directly the right way as verse 26 points out. IMHO I would say the Apostles are Spelt. We can only guess on this for God has hidden the complete meaning and to say we know for sure would not truthful. It could mean the Elect, the 1/3 that God is keeping out to go through the fire as Zechariah 13:9 tells us The Plowman is ready to complete what the farmer has started. Your answer lies within these passages. Vickie
You seem to be all over the place Vickie.Your line of reasoning is hard to follow.In your own words I would like to hear if you are the one to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world , or is it the Christian Church , or is it this forum , or is it the Angel in Revelation 7 & 14 ?.I thank you for your reply in your own words if you are able.Martin W.

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (Martin W. @ Apr 12 2009, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72438
You seem to be all over the place Vickie.Your line of reasoning is hard to follow.In your own words I would like to hear if you are the one to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world , or is it the Christian Church , or is it this forum , or is it the Angel in Revelation 7 & 14 ?.I thank you for your reply in your own words if you are able.Martin W.
No the angel in Rev 14:6 states clearly is the one and then the End comes just as verse 7-13 show the events of the sickle being swung across the earth.Man does not fulfill that prophecy. Thanks Vickie

 

[n2thelight]

QUOTE (Dunamite @ Feb 11 2009, 12:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=68991
The church has always had apostates in it.1 John 2: 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.We need to be on guard always so that we are not led astray. Now is no different than in John's time. You could argue that this is on the rise, but since we weren't around in the first century we can't make such a comparison.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."Those things that have happened before, will happen again. It is important that you understand this. There is no new idea or thing that can happen to man that has not already happened to man. Remember that "under the sun" is in reference to "this flesh body of man".This point helps us understand the Word of God, and the types that the prophets of old gave us in their writings. Paul told us in I Corinthians 10:11; "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."There's a very big difference between now, and John's time.That was a type,we will get the real thing.Not too say that it was'nt bad then but for us it will be the worse it has ever beenMatthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. What I mean by real is, they got a type of satan,(antichrist)we will get satan himself as The antichrist(no type)satan can't force anyone to follow him,it must be done by the person's own free will,and the majority of the world will do just that for the simple fact that they will think he is Christ.This is why God wil be so very angry with those that do because He told us the what, when, how and why.Have ye not read?What person in their right mind would follow satan knowing who he was?It's all about deception,Christ's number one warning ,especially to our generation.Matthew 24 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man DECEIVE you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall DECEIVE many. Paul told us the same thing2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; You should see the type, as most are now being deceived by mere men,do tell what chance in hell do you have when the ultimate deceptor arrives on the scene?I know some of you(rapturist)think you will not be here,well I got news for ya!Christians don't run from a fight,that's why we have the Gospel Armour,which is the Word,again I ask,as Christ did,have ye not read?Ephesians 610Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, Did you notice verse 11?"STAND AGAINST",not run away(raptured)I don't mean no harm or disrespect,but you all need to wake up!But then again it could be for your own good that you don't see it.

 

[Martin W.]

Apologies to Vicki.My comments in post #34 were intended to be in another thread. Sorry. I was on the wrong thread and for that reason your answer did not make sense to me.I accused you of being all over the place ..... and here it was me in the wrong thread all along. Very sorryFrom now on I will be perfect until I make my next mistakeMartin W.

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (Martin W. @ Apr 17 2009, 02:54 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72696
Apologies to Vicki.My comments in post #34 were intended to be in another thread. Sorry. I was on the wrong thread and for that reason your answer did not make sense to me.I accused you of being all over the place ..... and here it was me in the wrong thread all along. Very sorryFrom now on I will be perfect until I make my next mistakeMartin W.
I didn't take it offensively. But thanks anyway. I know, I get things out of context or just whack things up that I didn't mean too!!! Plus we all have some differing views and just don't expect people to agree with me on everything. thanks Vickie

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (n2thelight @ Apr 16 2009, 03:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72655
Ecclesiastes 1:9 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."Did you notice verse 11?"STAND AGAINST",not run away(raptured)I don't mean no harm or disrespect,but you all need to wake up!But then again it could be for your own good that you don't see it.
I enjoyed all that you posted. Your very focused and that is excellent. Many are that post on here. I like to inject that I was put into a Sabbath keeping Church by God for 14 yrs. Then God showed methe verses in Galatians and brought me out. God also showed me that Satan had been the angel of light in the church, with the doctrinal teachings interwoven with the truth of What God had written. This really scared me, yet The Lord Jesus put me in there for many reasons. When you realize the Sunday as well as the Sabbath keeping churches are all under a veil, and the holy spirit, the Comforter is and should be our only source to teach us all (John 14 and I John 2:27) We have the New High Priest Jesus the Christ in office over us, as teacher, Rabboni, Master, Savior, removing the need for men to teach another. All should be helping the family of God to realize how to turn to God for all their needs, not man, because there is no other but Him. Satan has slipped into all the Churches in some degree or another. Isa. 25:9 says the veil will be lifted at his coming.The deception has been going on since the beginning of Adam and Eve. Teaching doctrines like the rapture to have many fall away when persecutions start in. We are very soon going into the great tribulation to go before the beast who will reside in the wing of the temple for 1260 days completing prophecy. Christ who will have to remove him will come and gather us who are waiting and in this great tribulation during this time. Those who are sleeping in the ground (Dan. 12:2) will be called up to life. This persecution is going to come over the nations of Christians just like the waters came over the earth in the time of Noah. But Our Lord is good and will see us through.We must be willing to seek the Lord in this matter and approach the throne of God and seek his wisdom in the matter and trust him as the Son of Perdition will soon be made known, as he is a man who may very well come from the ground who has been given a heart and his wound healed. You need to consider this, for this would cause many to follow a resurrected man calling himself God. But this is my opinion, as God simply has not revealed who this man is other than he is an 8th king/beast Rev. 17:11. friend

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Vickie, I see someone with some truth,I have a friend who asked Jesus a question along the line of , How long after you left did all this corruption start