The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

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Stranger

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Read the letters.

I have read the letters. There is nothing to identify the ones who were not overcomers as Christian, (Rev. 1:21) (1 John 5:5), and as those in (Rev. 7:13-17). They are Gentiles for sure. And they are saved during the Tribulation.

Point being: It is not just Jews who are saved during the Tribulation.

Stranger
 

CharismaticLady

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I have read the letters. There is nothing to identify the ones who were not overcomers as Christian, (Rev. 1:21) (1 John 5:5), and as those in (Rev. 7:13-17). They are Gentiles for sure. And they are saved during the Tribulation.

Point being: It is not just Jews who are saved during the Tribulation.

Stranger

These are to the seven "churches"

Why do you believe Gentiles are saved during the GT? Revelation 7 doesn't say what they were going into the GT. Only that they were coming out of the GT. I believe they were the ones who still needed to overcome out of the Churches.
 

Stranger

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If you are trying to test me on dispensations, I will fail. It is Greek to me. I just know covenants. If they happen to be the same as your dispensations, so be it. I don't really care about dispensationalism. I can't be an expert in it as the word is not in the Bible to know what God thinks.

I'm not trying to test you. I'm trying to show you that you don't know the Dispensational Doctrine. You say you don't care, but yes you do. You speak against it so you care. But though you speak against it, you don't know it.

And though you don't know it, you don't care to know it. You would rather just be against it. How blind and foolish is that?

The 'word' is in the Bible as I showed you already. Have you forgot?

Do you think you are coming up with your own doctrine without the benefit of others who have gone before? Do you think you have come up with a theological doctrine that has not been found and declared before? Many of your views are Dispensational. Yet you act like they are not.

I gave you example of two Dispensations that may be an example of what you call 'cessation'. Yet you ignored them completely. Why? Because they made too much sense?

Stranger
 

Stranger

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These are to the seven "churches"

Why do you believe Gentiles are saved during the GT? Revelation 7 doesn't say what they were going into the GT. Only that they were coming out of the GT. I believe they were the ones who still needed to overcome out of the Churches.

So?

I just showed you. #(321) Plus, the Church is gone. Raptured out. (Rev. 4:1) Not addressed again till (Rev. 22:16) Thus (Rev. 7:9-17) speaks to Gentiles being saved during the Tribulation.

Why do you believe Jews are saved during the Tribulation?

Good-Ole-Rebel
 
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CharismaticLady

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You speak against it so you care.

If I'm speaking against it, I don't know that I am. I only speak against those who believe changes happen or cease inside our covenant when they can't (cessationism). Like those who believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased and cannot happen again, when Scripture has already said that there would be an early rain of the Spirit, a dry spell, and then the latter rain which we are in right now before the second coming.
 

CharismaticLady

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So?

I just showed you. #(321) Plus, the Church is gone. Raptured out. (Rev. 41) Not addressed again till (Rev. 22:16) Thus (Rev. 7:9-17) speaks to Gentiles being saved during the Tribulation.

Why do you believe Jews are saved during the Tribulation?

Good-Ole-Rebel

The church is here until the second coming. But if you subscribe to pre-trib then that will color everything you read, so we'll never agree.
 
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Bobby Jo

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The church is here until the second coming.

One of the FEW correct doctrines from @CharismaticLady; -- specifically that the church will go through the Tribulation and into the Millennial Kingdom. The earth will be judged for it's wickedness, and those that accept the mark of the beast shall drop dead, whether having profess Jesus as their savior or not, and their bones will be picked clean by vultures (eagles).

Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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I just showed you. #(321) Plus, the Church is gone. Raptured out. ...

You hear the lies from the church, but don't listen to Scripture. -- I hope your church will protect you from the concentration camps where the Showers are FREE.

Good Luck,
Bobby Jo
 

marks

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In the thumbnail sketch,

The birth pangs of the end of the age,
False Christs, false prophets
Earthquakes
Famines
Pestilence
Wars

These are conditions which grow worse and worse as we get closer to the end.

As the seals are opened and the horsemen released, these conditions become absolute as:
Governments fall as the beast begins to rule
Society turns violent
Economies crash
Disease and famine and wars and animals kill in 1/4 of the earth

In the 5th seal the the hardness is removed from Israel, the heaven dwelling martyrs await the rest of the Jews that will be killed as they were.

In the sixth seal comes sudden destruction, worldwide earthquate, same earthquake in Ezekiel 38 as Gog/Magog invade.

I see the seals being opened in much the same time as it takes to read the passage.

The four horsemen are released turning government, society, economy, and ecology all hostile to man.

The fifth seal turns the dispensation from the gathering of the gentile church (mostly gentile, some Jewish), to the salvation of Israel (those who survive, and some gentiles).

The sixth seal brings the sudden destruction prophesied in the Olivette Discourse, as the flood that came and took them away, and in 1 Thessalonians 5, that no one knows is coming. Except those who are watching.

The seventh seal begins the 70th week with silence.

7 angels are given 7 trumpets.

The first angel sounds hail and fire and blood rain upon the earth, destroying the Gog/Magog invaders.
The remaining angels sound, finally, the seventh trumpet, as Satan is cast to the earth.

Satan indwells the beast, sits in the temple. The two witnesses, prophesying during this first 3.5 years, are killed, left to lay in the street.

Jews who believe Jesus' prophecy flee to the wilderness, where Elijah prepares them to make themselves ready for their Bridegroom.

Everyone is required to worship the image, those who do are marked and released, those who don't are beheaded.

The greatest tribulation ever fills the final 3.5 years as the beast tries to destroy Israel, and anyone who professes faith in Jesus.

The bowls of wrath are poured out, judging the beast, the judgment of the harlot, the gathering of the kings of the earth to do battle with Jesus Christ.

Elijah, and the Israelites in the wilderness, the bride has made herself ready, blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the LORD!

Heaven opens, and Jesus rides from the heavenly realm to the terrestrial. He stands upon the Mount of Olives, which splits in two, creating a massive new valley. The Jews, being so instructed by the prophet, flee through this valley, the beast armies after them.

After the Jews clear the other end, as the valley is filled with beast troops, it shuts again, the winepress of God's wrath, blood flows out like a river.

Jesus sends out the angels who gather all the Jews back to the land. Then He gathers the nations, judges them, resurrects the OT faithful, and many come from the east and west to the wedding feast of the Lamb.

The kingdom age is begun!

Much love!
 

Bobby Jo

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The seventh seal begins the 70th week with silence.

In order to arrive to the 70th week, you have to transcend the first seven with the FIRST anointed one; and then the next sixty-two with the SECOND anointed one; and then some delay until the SECOND anointed one is cut off; and then AFTER the seventieth week the Destroyer "shall come".

Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Some arrive at conclusions. some simply jump to conclusions,
Bobby Jo
 

CharismaticLady

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There is nothing to identify the ones who were not overcomers as Christian

These are people inside the Church, but maybe not of the Church. There problem is they do not have the Holy Spirit, just a form of religion. They are still active sinners due to the false doctrines that started in those church ages. Thyatira, Sardis and Laodecia.

Thyatira - Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox
Sardis - Reformation
Laodecia - New Age - all roads lead to God.
 
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Stranger

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These are people inside the Church, but maybe not of the Church. There problem is they do not have the Holy Spirit, just a form of religion. They are still active sinners due to the false doctrines that started in those church ages. Thyatira, Sardis and Laodecia.

Thyatira - Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox
Sardis - Reformation
Laodecia - New Age - all roads lead to God.

If they don't have the Spirit, then they are not of Christ. They are not saved.

(Rom. 8:9) "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Stranger
 

Stranger

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If I'm speaking against it, I don't know that I am. I only speak against those who believe changes happen or cease inside our covenant when they can't (cessationism). Like those who believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased and cannot happen again, when Scripture has already said that there would be an early rain of the Spirit, a dry spell, and then the latter rain which we are in right now before the second coming.

The point is you don't want to know, for some unknown reason. Because you don't want to know, you tend to ignore any Scriptural proof that supports it.

Not all those who are Dispensationalist's hold to the cessation of gifts of the Spirit. I don't.

You have it in your head that the Church and Israel are the same. Thus as I have said earlier, this can only be if you, by your method of interpretation, redefine Israel. See post #(137). This is where you first addressed my post.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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The church is here until the second coming. But if you subscribe to pre-trib then that will color everything you read, so we'll never agree.

Your redefining Israel as the Church colors everything you read.

Stranger
 

CharismaticLady

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The point is you don't want to know, for some unknown reason. Because you don't want to know, you tend to ignore any Scriptural proof that supports it.

Not all those who are Dispensationalist's hold to the cessation of gifts of the Spirit. I don't.

You have it in your head that the Church and Israel are the same. Thus as I have said earlier, this can only be if you, by your method of interpretation, redefine Israel. See post #(137). This is where you first addressed my post.

Stranger

How can I support your scriptural proof when I don't know what God thinks. I'm supposed to take your word for something scriptural, when we can't even agree on scriptures for pre-trib/post-trib?
 

Stranger

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How can I support your scriptural proof when I don't know what God thinks. I'm supposed to take your word for something scriptural, when we can't even agree on scriptures for pre-trib/post-trib?

I don't understand your question 'when I don't know what God thinks' ?.

God has given His Word so that we might know what He thinks.

The problem does not begin with 'Pre-trib'. It begins with the method of interpretation. Due to your method of interpretation you arrive at the conclusion of 'pre-trib' or 'post-trib' or whatever. Due to your method of interpretation you arrive at the conclusion that Israel and the Church are the same.

Stranger
 
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