The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[Brakelite]

God can. and can't do a lot of things, what often determines what is viable, is the purpose behind the alleged act. So, you offered one, 'the world will witness the righteousness of God - the very thing that denied and defies for so long'. ...personally, I think that occurred already with Christ - the 250% human who fulfilled God's Holy Law to the letter. That was sufficient, and all are bound to accept his Lordship due to this fact. Therefore, I don't believe that a repetition of this principle is necessary, for as the parable/allegory goes - '...even if I send someone from the dead, they still will not believe, for the evidence has already been displayed before them...' (paraphrase)

What is the climax of human history? Is it the egocentric motivated fear of hell or hope of reward... Or is it the Christ centered higher motivation of the Bride being ready for her Husband?
The climax is the marriage of the Lamb. And the bride is not ready. The "making ready" of the bride surely is the experience of righteousness by faith which culminates in the righteousness of saints. Imputed righteousness at last lived out in imparted righteousness. All by faith. This glorious triumph is the parallel to the final sealing of the saints which lies in contradistinction to the mark. Both in the forehead and both a revelation of the character within.
When Jesus comes, it is to take His people unto Himself. It is to present to Himself His glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing, but that is holy and without blemish. His people must be in that condition before He comes. We must be brought to that state of perfection in the complete image of Jesus. This image of Christ, this state of perfection, is the finishing of the mystery of godliness, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
And the beauty of the whole thing is that all we need do is believe. It's all by faith. We trust Him to accomplish that which He has promised. To finish the work He has begun, to bring us to full maturity.
KJV Ephesians 4:7-8, 11-13
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
KJV Ephesians 5:25-27, 32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Christ comes only when the harvest is ripe. When His bride is ready. Christ is waiting, longing for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ is reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.
KJV Ephesians 3:14-21
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
KJV Ephesians 1:15-23
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
KJV Philippians 1:9-11
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The context of the entire book of Galatians is that it is written to Gentiles who were in danger of being "Judaized"....false teachers were coming in wanting to circumcise them and instruct them to keep the law.

So no, Galatians 3:23 is not talking about Jews only....it is talking about all those who have come to faith in Jesus...that previous to that they were kept under the law.

It indicates to me in Romans 3:19-20 that the law defines sin for everyone and that everyone, Jew and Gentile alike, will be judged by the law on their day of judgment.

You may say to me what is written in Romans 2:12, that those who sin without law shall also perish apart from the law; while those who sin in the law will be judged by the law.

But, how is it to be determined that they sinned? Is not their sin defined by the fact that they violated the law, even though they may not have had a law set before them; and therefore they did not transgress (or trespass); while they still sinned?

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20). But the law exists throughout eternity as a standard of righteousness and therefore men can transgress the law even though it is not set before them. They are simply not violating a standard that was set before them; so they were not crossing a line where they were told not to do that thing and did it anyway. They violated a principle that they were unaware of....and it was still sin...and that sin was defined by the eternal law of the Lord as it exists in heaven. They did not trespass because they did not violate a commandment set before them...but they did sin in that they transgressed the standard of the law as it is firmly set in the heavenlies.

Perhaps some Newbies will learn from this ...it’s been posted before ....the “ stiff-Necked” Refuse to acknowledge verses that go against the False Traditions they “ learned” by poorly taught preachers....for once, hear the Truth about your Precious Law....
Many Christians give lip service to the fact they live in the New Covenant.

The truth however is that because they fail to realise they are no longer under the law they are really still living in an Old Covenant reality.

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And I would say to you that you are still the chief of sinners; unlike Paul who, when he proclaimed that he was the chief of sinners, was talking about his former life.

I guess poor old Paul did not know how to use BASIC GRAMMAR....he said — “ I AM”.....If he really was TALKING ABOUT his “ former life” , chances are he would have said , “ I USED TO BE”
You’re not a real “ deep” guy, are you, JustByFaith? Paul was very close to God and this statement proves it....the closer you get to God, the farther away you see yourself being...Anybody that does not “See” themselves the same way that Paul saw himself (and you do not have to be an executioner Of Christians to be one) has a problem....
John the Baptist, according to Jesus,was the most righteous man that ever lived, yet did you hear of John going around telling everybody how “ Holy” he was ?He saw himself as one not even fit to undo Jesus’ Sandals....get the picture, just? I’m sure you don’t.....please stay away from the things that are over your head and let the Adults have some intelligent and insightful discussion about the Things Of God......Christianity is so much more than just, “” do do this and don’t do that”..... some of us have moved on from the Play-Pen Of “sin...sin....sin....repent ....repent.....repent”...... True Christianity is so much Richer than that....you will never understand until you obey God’s Command to REST in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4...... Newbies to the Faith—- make it your GOAL to REST in what Christ has done FOR you.....Rest Spurs Love and Love is the Engine that Drives the True Obedience That God is looking for.....God Bless...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

@Blood Bought 1953,

The original statement that you responded to, calling my gospel, false and perverted, in post #807 of this thread (The False Doctrine with key word "COVER") was that faith is an attitude of obedience.

Now, can you show me from the Bible that faith is not an attitude of obedience?

I believe that the word "faithful" is synonymous with the word "obedient", so that would indicate to me that faith is an attitude of obedience.

So, make your case....

How is this a false and perverted gospel?

Because I certainly don't want to be preaching a gospel that is false and perverted.

And after praying about it, I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading me to see what else you have to say on the matter; just in case you have biblical reasons for calling my gospel what you have called it.

So, have at it.

Please give biblical references that support your position (chapter and verse).

Please.....go away....find somebody else to argue with.....Computer ink is too precious to waste on Legalists.....

 

[justbyfaith]

Perhaps some Newbies will learn from this ...it’s been posted before ....the “ stiff-Necked” Refuse to acknowledge verses that go against the False Traditions they “ learned” by poorly taught preachers....for once, hear the Truth about your Precious Law....
Many Christians give lip service to the fact they live in the New Covenant.

The truth however is that because they fail to realise they are no longer under the law they are really still living in an Old Covenant reality.

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.

Let the record show that I have not argued that born again Christians are under the law...I have argued that unbelieving Gentiles are under the law and will be judged by it.

And also, the preaching of the law is valid as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24), showing them that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20) and converting their souls (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

Also, those who look into the perfect law of liberty, not being hearers only, but doers, will be blessed in what they do (James 1:23-25). And we are to so speak, and so do, as those who will be judged by the law of liberty (James 2:12).

I guess poor old Paul did not know how to use BASIC GRAMMAR....he said — “ I AM”.....If he really was TALKING ABOUT his “ former life” , chances are he would have said , “ I USED TO BE”

Paul did say it only about two to three verses before (read 1 Timothy 1:13-15).

I believe that he was referring to the fact of what scripture says in Jeremiah 17:9, which indicates that we ought not to "trust in our new heart," if he is indeed talking about his present life when he makes that statement in 1 Timothy 1:15. Because he is the chief of sinners (i.e. his heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked) even with his new heart according to you and therefore he (and we) ought not to trust in our new hearts to guide us; if indeed our hearts are still "deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9) and thus we continue to be "the chief of sinners".

Unless in 1 Timothy 1:15, he is talking about his former life; which verse 13 seems to reveal to us: and also Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Luke 8:15 indicate to us that we no longer have hearts that are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: therefore when Paul calls himself the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15, it indicates to me that he was indeed speaking of his former life.

In which case 1 Timothy 1:15 is not talking about Paul's present condition when he writes 1 Timothy 1:15.

But I understand that this is not the reality in your life; so that you would love to have 1 Timothy 1:15 as a justification for continuing to retain a sinful heart.

You’re not a real “ deep” guy, are you, JustByFaith? Paul was very close to God and this statement proves it....the closer you get to God, the farther away you see yourself being...Anybody that does not “See” themselves the same way that Paul saw himself (and you do not have to be an executioner Of Christians to be one) has a problem....

I am happy to not have the problem of being conscious of sin (see 1 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 10:2) since I have been cleansed from them by the the precious blood of Jesus (1 John 1:7).

John the Baptist, according to Jesus,was the most righteous man that ever lived, yet did you hear of John going around telling everybody how “ Holy” he was ?He saw himself as one not even fit to undo Jesus’ Sandals....get the picture, just?

Not because John himself was "the chief of sinners" or even a sinner...but because Jesus is infinitely righteous and the difference between His righteousness and John's (as well as our own) is immeasurable.

We ought to remember that Jesus spoke of John that among those born of women there was none greater in righteousness than him.

Please.....go away....find somebody else to argue with.....Computer ink is too precious to waste on Legalists.....

Now, I did not make that post to argue with you but I was asking you for some real correction as to my doctrine which you say is "false and perverted". But evidently you made that statement out of your petutie and have no scriptural backup for your accusation.

So, really?

You are going to call my gospel FALSE and PERVERTED and are not even going to tell me why you think that is?

I prayed about it and the Holy Spirit told me to humble myself and ask you the reason for your statement. I assumed that you would have some kind of rational, scriptural reason for your statement since you were so adamant about condemning me as a false teacher.

(I do not want to be a false teacher and am, at this point, open to any real correction from the Bible that you might give to me. Therefore, it is the loving thing to do for you to at least give a biblical explanation of your point of view and at least show me the reason, biblically, why you believe my gospel is "false" and "perverted.")

@Blood Bought 1953,

The original statement that you responded to, calling my gospel, false and perverted, in post #807 of this thread (The False Doctrine with key word "COVER") was that faith is an attitude of obedience.

Now, can you show me from the Bible that faith is not an attitude of obedience?

I believe that the word "faithful" is synonymous with the word "obedient", so that would indicate to me that faith is an attitude of obedience.

So, make your case....

How is this a false and perverted gospel?

Because I certainly don't want to be preaching a gospel that is false and perverted.

And after praying about it, I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading me to see what else you have to say on the matter; just in case you have biblical reasons for calling my gospel what you have called it.

So, have at it.

Please give biblical references that support your position (chapter and verse).

Now, it turns out that you have no scriptural backup for accusing me of being a false teacher...which indicates to me...and ought to also indicate to everyone else...that you are merely a lackey of the accuser of the brethren and that you are leveling accusations against me that have no basis in reality.

I find it to be very sad...

Because I had a lot of respect for you before.

Ecc 10:1, Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour.

 

[DNB]

What is the climax of human history? Is it the egocentric motivated fear of hell or hope of reward... Or is it the Christ centered higher motivation of the Bride being ready for her Husband?
The climax is the marriage of the Lamb. And the bride is not ready. The "making ready" of the bride surely is the experience of righteousness by faith which culminates in the righteousness of saints. Imputed righteousness at last lived out in imparted righteousness. All by faith. This glorious triumph is the parallel to the final sealing of the saints which lies in contradistinction to the mark. Both in the forehead and both a revelation of the character within.
When Jesus comes, it is to take His people unto Himself. It is to present to Himself His glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing, but that is holy and without blemish. His people must be in that condition before He comes. We must be brought to that state of perfection in the complete image of Jesus. This image of Christ, this state of perfection, is the finishing of the mystery of godliness, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
And the beauty of the whole thing is that all we need do is believe. It's all by faith. We trust Him to accomplish that which He has promised. To finish the work He has begun, to bring us to full maturity.
KJV Ephesians 4:7-8, 11-13
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
KJV Ephesians 5:25-27, 32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Christ comes only when the harvest is ripe. When His bride is ready. Christ is waiting, longing for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ is reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.
KJV Ephesians 3:14-21
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
KJV Ephesians 1:15-23
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
KJV Philippians 1:9-11
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Well, obviously you have no empirical evidence for your claim, which you are not espousing. So then, if your exegesis is correct, you are clearly establishing a new and unprecedented dispensation. This is the only way that you can hold to your position, which you seem to readily agree. This is an interpretation issue, I think that your text-proof is referring to a time after Christ's return. For even in the Apostolic age, good character was not necessarily the witness, at least not perfected character, it was signs and wonders and the wisdom of the Gospel. A perfect character was never the testimony of salvation, it was redemption for one's sins - as it will always be until Judgment Day.
So, no, there is no one who has reached perfection, even Paul explicitly stated that (Philippians 3:12), and the efficacy of such a testimony is not sufficient to save souls - it helps to teach people to be pleasing to God, and gives a good impression to what Christ endorses, but it is not requisite for salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Blood Bought 1953,

If I have sinned against you in any way in post #945 (The False Doctrine with key word "COVER") (or before) let me just say that it is completely justified...

Because I am the chief of sinners and everything is well and right with that (move over Paul, there's a new kid in town...).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Let the record show that I have not argues that Christians are under the law...I have argued that unbelieving Gentiles are under the law and will be judged by it.



Paul did say it only about two to three verses before (read 1 Timothy 1:13-15).

I believe that he was referring to the fact of what scripture says in Jeremiah 17:9, which indicates that we ought not to "trust in our new heart," if he is indeed talking about his present life when he makes that statement in 1 Timothy 1:15. Because he is the chief of sinners (i.e. his heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked) even with his new heart according to you and therefore he (and we) ought not to trust in our new hearts to guide us.

Unless in 1 Timothy 1:15, he is talking about his former life; which verse 13 seems to reveal to us: and also Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Luke 8:15 indicate to us that we no longer have hearts that are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: therefore when Paul calls himself the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15, it indicates to me that he was indeed speaking of his former life.

But I understand that this is not the reality in your life; so that you would love to have 1 Timothy 1:15 as a justification for continuing to retain a sinful heart.



I am happy to not have the problem of being conscious of sin (see Hebrews 10:2) since I have been cleansed from them by the the precious blood of Jesus (1 John 1:7).



Not because John himself was "the chief of sinners" or even a sinner...but because Jesus is infinitely righteous and the difference between His righteousness and our own is immeasurable.



Now, I did not make that post to argue with you but I was asking you for some real correction as to my doctrine which you say is "false and perverted". But evidently you made that statement out of your a** and have no scriptural backup for your accusation.

So, really?

You are going to call my gospel FALSE and PERVERTED and are not even going to tell me why you think that is?

I prayed about it and the Holy Spirit told me to humble myself and ask you the reason for your statement. I assumed that you would have some kind of scriptural reason for your statement since you were so adamant about condemning me as a false teacher.

(I do not want to be a false teacher and am, at this point, open to any real correction from the Bible that you might give to me. Therefore, it is the loving thing to do for you to at least give a biblical explanation of your point of view and at least show me the reason, biblically, why you believe my gospel is false and perverted.)

Now, it turns out that you have no scriptural backup for accusing me of being a false teacher...which indicates to me...and ought to also indicate to everyone else...that you are merely a lackey of the accuser of the brethren and that you are leveling accusations against me that have no basis in reality.

I thought for the longest time that you and I were in Complete Agreement about All Things Biblical.....and I “ STILL” agree that you have the VAST majority of things correct....Rightly or wrongly, I detected “ Leaven” in some of your posts....and we Both should know that it only takes a “ Little Leaven” to spoil the whole batch...I am not ambitious enough to go back through all of the old posts, but if memory serves me , you were showing yourself to be somebody that was saying, “Yes, Jesus Saves, BUT you MUST REPENT to “ stay” saved....” That sounds great , but it is an Addition to Paul’s Gospel,Of Grace in 1Cor15:1........ Believers SHOULD Repent, and As a Believer I find myself Repenting quite often.....but, Paul never made it a Demand for getting saved....The DEMAND was BELIEVE in JESUS ...
I believe Repentance is MANDANTORY for getting Saved....the problem is, the Translators Of The Bible took Three Separate Greek and called them ALL “ repentance”.....Before Salvation, The Unbeliever must “ change his mind “ and “ turn” to God with Faith in Jesus Alone to Save Him —- If one goes from “ Unbelief in Jesus” to “ BELIEF IN JESUS” , He has undergone the “ Change Of Mind” ( from the Greek Word “ metanoia” , literally “ mind change” ), the Repentance that leads to being Saved....Surely, a sorrow for sin , a sense of shame and the desire to do better will often accompany this process , but that “ sorrow, shame and regret for sin” is not the precise thing that Saves — few lost sinners ever experienced “ that” type of Repentance more profoundly Than Judas ....had that Regret, etc lead him to Jesus , he would be in Paradise today with the Thief on the Cross That Repented and Repented Properly...... The Thief Turned to Jesus and got Saved—- Judas “ Turned” to a hangman’s Noose and is in Hell as we speak......

AfTER One has Properly Repented by Going from UNBELIEF to BELIEF in the Death, Burial and Resurrection in Jesus, and Believing He died for your sins, Plus Nothing, you are Saved and another type of Repentance comes into play—- it is the Conviction Of Doing something Sinful as a Believer ...this is where you did something Sinful and in your heart-of- Hearts , you probably even “ knew” you we’re doing wrong while you did it ! You experience a “ Godly Sorrow” , a pain in your Conscience put there by a Grieved Holy Spirit That is part of God's Discipline Plan for His Saved Children.The Bible refers to it as “ Chastizement”........ Do something Sinful......get Chastised for it enough times ....and the hope is that you will eventually Stop Doing it...One has the freedom to ignore these Chastisements if he still persists in his or her sinning.....God is very Merciful and understanding.....He can allow you to go farther and farther into your sin if you want to.....But God ain’t gonna be Mocked.....He has His Limits .....and He too has Freedom—— the freedom to strike you dead in your tracks! A wise man and especially a Believer dies not Trifle with God......
Anyway.....getting back to the Subject at hand.....We have seen that Repentance is Vital in the Salvation process .....so is Obedience .... they play a part in Salvation , but they are NOT the instruments that do the Saving..... Faith is the instrument ......Christ’s Blood and Our Faith.....”Without FAITH, it is Impossible to please God” .....” The man who finds life, will find it by Trusting ( putting your Faith in ) God.....”By Grace you are Saved— Through FAITH!”
Repentance can entail Turning From Sin and that is a great thing .....but it has a Nothing to do with “ receiving a Free Gift “ ....it won't Save a person nor will it Keep a person Saved....we cant even “ know” about all Of the Sins we have committed , much less Repent Of them all . And the millions of “ Sins Of Omission ?” Only a Fool would want to go there!
If you have gone from Unbelief in Jesus To a Belief in Jesus , you have Undergone the Repentance That God demands.....the instrument that “ GOT” you to Faith should not be confused with the Actual Faith itself......
If you claim that “ Jesus Saves, BUT after that you gotta Repent Of all of your Sins before you die or you will go to Hell “ is nothing more than saying , “ Yeah, Jesus Saves , But you gotta get Circumcised and keep the Law Of Moses to STAY Saved “ ......That is Nothing less than Modern Day Judaism....if you Believe that you are “ Fallen From Grace” , maybe damned.....maybe not.... One thing is for sure —- if you TEACH it ....you are “ Accursed” ..... God Damned for a Eternity....
You lead me to believe that this is your “ gospel”——- “ Jesus Saves , But!”......... If YOU or ANYBODY goes beyond “ Jesus Saves, PERIOD ! ——- You are NOT my Brother ....you are preaching a False , Perverted Gospel and you had better REPENT .....real quick like .....Relent Of Spreading Leaven-and we can be Brothers.....let me-know If and when you do.....

Newbies...never forget how “ righteous “ Gospel Additions can sound, but realize where they get you! 90 % of the Church World is “ Fallen From Grace” and doesn’t even know it....Satan has fooled the world into thinking it means something like happened to Jimmy Swaggert—- a “ good guy” gets caught being a “ bad guy” .....no.......” falling from Grace” means to reject the only thing that actually saves anybody ( GRACE! ) and trying to replace it with your “Good Works “ , typically, your Religion.....what “ YOU” do..... God rejected Cain’s Works and he will also also reject Yours! It really is “ Nothing But The Blood”....You sing it.....you had better start BELIEVING it! God bless...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

@Blood Bought 1953,

If I have sinned against you in any way in post #945 (The False Doctrine with key word "COVER") (or before) let me just say that it is completely justified...

Because I am the chief of sinners and everything is well and right with that (move over Paul, there's a new kid in town...).

Lol....you just don't get it, do you? You behave as if Shallowness were a Virtue.....Smart People “ GET” what I am talking about.....and I am NOT going to “ dumb things down “ for the likes of you.....you put me in the mind Of that Fly On Pence’s Head.....shoo fly! Lol......

 

[justbyfaith]

I thought for the longest time that you and I were in Complete Agreement about All Things Biblical.....and I “ STILL” agree that you have the VAST majority of things correct....Rightly or wrongly, I detected “ Leaven” in some of your posts

I am not ambitious enough to go back through all of the old posts, but if memory serves me , you were showing yourself to be somebody that was saying, “Yes, Jesus Saves, BUT you MUST REPENT to “ stay” saved....” That sounds great , but it is an Addition to Paul’s Gospel,Of Grace in 1Cor15:1

Repentance can entail Turning From Sin and that is a great thing .....but it has a Nothing to do with “ receiving a Free Gift “ ....it won't Save a person nor will it Keep a person Saved....

You lead me to believe that this is your “ gospel”——- “ Jesus Saves , But!”......... If YOU or ANYBODY goes beyond “ Jesus Saves, PERIOD ! ——- You are NOT my Brother ....you are preaching a False , Perverted Gospel and you had better REPENT .....real quick like .....Relent Of Spreading Leaven-and we can be Brothers.....let me-know If and when you do.....

I recently prayed that the Lord would bring me to repentance concerning a besetting sin in my life; and the Lord led me to three different passages. The most important of which, I think, was Ezekiel 33:11-20.

This passage (and the other two) changed my point of view, so that I now believe more closely to what the Bible says in Hebrews 10:26-31...that if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins (and the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is a sacrifice) but only a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the adversaries.

Here is the passage:

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

Perhaps you might tell me if you consider the message of this scripture passage to be a false gospel, and, if it is, how it can be a false gospel, since it is a teaching in holy scripture and we know that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Is it a false gospel to teach that if we sin willfully after having come to the knowledge of the truth, that we shall die thereby in the spiritual sense of things? For that is what the passage in question appears to be saying to me.

(The passage also appears to teach that if the wicked person turns from his wicked way (repents away from sinning) he shall even live thereby.

It seems to me like you owe me $1,000, @Blood Bought 1953; but just ask, and I will forgive you the debt.)

And if that is not what it is saying, perhaps you can show me how that is not what it is saying, with your superior knowledge of what the scripture teaches.

I just want to say to you that if I am wrong on this, then I want to know about it.

If I am erring from the truth, I hope that you will be encouraged by what it says in James 5:19-20...and that you will seek to turn me from the error of my way...in doing so you would be saving a soul from death and hiding a multitude of sins.

To @Blood Bought 1953.

 

[justbyfaith]

Lol....you just don't get it, do you? You behave as if Shallowness were a Virtue.....Smart People “ GET” what I am talking about.....and I am NOT going to “ dumb things down “ for the likes of you.....you put me in the mind Of that Fly On Pence’s Head.....shoo fly! Lol......

Rude...

I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 13 in the NIV.

Here:

1Co 13:1, If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3, If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,
1Co 13:4, Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
1Co 13:5, It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Co 13:6, Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1Co 13:7, It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Co 13:8, Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
1Co 13:9, For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
1Co 13:11, When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
1Co 13:12, For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
1Co 13:13, And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Theologically I cannot really agree with this. We do overcome by doing good. We overcome by faith. By believing in God's promises that He will strengthen and uphold us in times of need. That when we confess our sins, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It's demonstrably provable that you are wrong.
1) You've never met any human being who is perfect other than Christ, whom you've only met in a spiritual sense.
2) We read in 1 John the absolute declaration that the one who says anybody is sinless (apart from Christ) makes God a liar.
3) Under the Law, *every single Israelite* was commanded to depend on rituals of the Law for atonement from sin. The implication is that all Israel were guilty of sin and required cleansing from sin in order to remain in good relations with God.
4) Every saint in the OT acknowledged that they were flawed and sinful, and pursued righteousness despite their flaws. They depended on God's mercy to overlook their flaws, even as they chose to walk a righteous path.

You think that when people choose to live in righteousness they somehow can escape the effects of the corrupt flesh on them? But their human spirits have been poisoned with the sin nature. Even when we are regenerated in Christ we still live in the corrupt flesh and have spirits stained with sin. We inherit a fallen sin nature which will not go away until we die. Indeed we die for that very reason, to get rid of our sin.

We live by grace. That means we can choose to rise above our faulty spirits to embrace a walk together with Christ, sharing in his righteousness. It does not make us perfect, but it does signal our choice to live on the right path. As a result we are enabled to present a witness to Christian righteousness in our lives. This witness does not require that we be perfect. Indeed, our witness is that Christ can produce regular righteousness in our lives even in imperfect people. It gives hope to all.

 

[justbyfaith]

We inherit a fallen sin nature which will not go away until we die...

TO SELF (Colossinas 2:11 (nlt)).

 

[justbyfaith]

I do believe that Paul and Barnabas had their own disagreement with each other in Acts of the Apostles 15:36-41...

So if @Blood Bought 1953 and I do not come to an agreement, it does not necessarily mean that either one of us isn't saved...

I'm certain that even he believes that once you come to a place of being saved, you cannot lose that salvation.

So, my coming to a new understanding is not an indictment on my salvation, just like him holding to the old understanding is not an indictment on his; for it should be clear (in John 5:24 (kjv)) that if anyone hears Jesus' words and believes on Him who sent Him, they have everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death unto life.

And therefore, if preaching a false gospel would make a man accursed (Galatians 1:6-9) it is impossible for me to preach a false gospel, since I have believed in the One sent by Jesus having heard His word; and therefore everlasting life began in me from the moment of my first faith; and this means that I shall not come into condemnation. That is absolute terminology and I am willing to bank my life on it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Does it seem to anyone that there is a contradiction between John 5:24 (kjv) and Ezekiel 33:11-20?

I believe that any apparent contradiction would be reconciled by 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:17 together.

 

[justbyfaith]

I could really use the $1,000, @Blood Bought 1953, so if it's all the same to you, I would like to collect on the bet that I won against you; unless it would put you out; in which case all you need to do is ask (publicly) and I will forgive you the debt.

The same goes concerning the sin that you sinned against me.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is basic doctrine that:

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

How is it, then, @Blood Bought 1953, that you boasted that your doctrine was so pure that if anyone could refute it, you would give them $1,000?.

Now someone has refuted it. Are you not going to pay up?

 

[justbyfaith]

edited post #950 (The False Doctrine with key word "COVER").

 

[HisLife]

You should listen and study what Blood bought is telling you He is trying to help you, His message is to anyone that wants to learn but he has taken the time and effort to make it about what you need to hear

Now You said "We are saved through an attitude that is inclined towards obedience" Which is false and was rightly pointed out

Anyone is Saved through The Blood of Jesus, Hopefully you see your contradiction

You talk to much and listen to little, There are too many points in your last 100 posts to talk about but Maybe Hebrews 10:26 would be a good start Because I see you quote it alot, Have you considered that it applies to you

 

[Taken]

The key word of the most common false doctrine is "cover." Anytime I hear someone use the phrase "the blood of Jesus "covers" our sin,"

True Jesus' BLOOD Does NOT Cover a manS Sin...

However the Doctrine OF COVER, taught IN Scripture IS True.

In your post #1, you did NOT mention WHAT IS the Scriptural Doctrine That DOES COVER a man's "Forgiven SIN".

Rom 4:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, (<--- Via Jesus' Blood)
AND (in addition)
whose sins are covered. < via What?)

1 John 1:
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Eph 5:
[8] For ye were sometimes darkness,
But NOW, are ye light in the Lord:

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he (God IS LIGHT) that is in you, than he that is in the world.

My Forgiven Sin "IS COVERED", BY Gods Light that IS IN ME...

Light Covers and OVERCOMES Darkness.
There IS NO Darkness IN Gods Light.
There IS no Darkness, "unforgiven/Uncovered Sin", Corruption IN a man, Who Has The Spirit/Light/Power of God IN Him.

Glory to God,
Taken