The False One Who Makes the 7 Year Covenant of Daniel 9

[ScottA]

He is right, Dan. 9:27 is the Anti-Christ. Jesus/God doesn't make one week covenants, they make perpetual covenants. The Daniel 70 weeks Prophecy has THREE MARKERS, but the Prophecy is about Jerusalem and her people or Israel, not 1.) The Wall 2.) The Messiah's Death 3.) or the end time The Anti-Christs Agreement per se. These are Markers but the Prophesy is about Israel repenting before the 70 weeks judgment can come to pass. And it is three separate prophesies instead of one for a reason.

You are not understanding all of the prophecy.

It was the angel of God who told Daniel that the time allotted to his people was 70 weeks (meaning times) in the midst of which Messiah would be cut off. Which is a small image of all days and times from the first Adam to the Last (Daniel's people)--that is the seven days of creation, including all times. Daniel's prophecy also confirms what I am now telling you, as regarding "a time, times, and half a time." The meaning is the same, and is about all time(s). The words and the language used are spiritually defined: 7=creation and God, 70=10x that, meaning all of it, weeks means times, meaning the same.

Thus, Jesus Messiah, came in between Israel and the Gentiles--in the middle of that so called "week", making a new covenant which was the breaking of the old.

 

[ScottA]

Ah Scotta, I am not the one who is confused. Satan is very good at hiding himself in full view and you are helping Satan to do so with your comment.

Christ did not come to make a covenant with the peoples of the earth. He came to refurbish the Salvation Covenant, that God has had from the beginning of time, by establishing a new process whereby people could become redeemed through Christ Himself with His death on the Cross, which is foretold to us in Daniel 9:24b and 26a, as a once and for all sacrifice for all of mankind if people are willing to accept His sacrifice for their iniquities before their physical death.

Jesus alluded to this when he taught this: -

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Matt 13:47-52: - The Parable of the Dragnet​

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47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the completion of the ages. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."​

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51 Jesus said to them, "Have you understood all these things?"​

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They said to Him, "Yes, Lord."​

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52 Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things refurbished and yet ancient."​

Christ will make like new again that which is from ancient times. That is our salvation from the consequences of the fall.

You are close in that you say it was for all time. But here, I explained it to another: #21

 

[jeffweeder]

The 70 weeks are all about the Messiah.

24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem),
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sins,
to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness,
to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God),
to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and
to anoint the Most Holy Place.

25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years];



So It is clear that 70 weeks are decreed for Messiah to complete this work in v24, by not only arriving after 69 weeks but to also complete the 70 weeks by atoning for sin etc through the shedding of his own blood and therefore establishing his blood of the New Cov...,


Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the [new and better] covenant, which [ratifies the agreement and] is being poured out for many [as a substitutionary atonement] for the forgiveness of sins .

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant [uniting God and man], and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks [of mercy], a better and nobler and more gracious message than the blood of Abel [which cried out for vengeance].



Jesus established and confirmed this NC in the midst of the last week when he was cut off and raised from the dead.
The last half of the 70th week saw the Gospel go into all the world to bring in the Gentiles. This completes the Final 7 years where the NC is comfirmed for the whole world as God promised through the prophets of old.
That sealed it up for a new and living way till the end through which we all must be saved.

 

[Jay Ross]

You are close in that you say it was for all time. But here, I explained it to another: #21

Yea! Scott! you are still speaking gobbledygook in post #21 and making no sense at all.

 

[Davy]

You are really real awful at Prophecy, not called unto it. No one stated Antiochus does anything. I stated (open your eyes) that Antiochus in verses 21-34 is not END TIMES. You tried to say Verses 21-45 is the Anti-Christ that is FALSE. I destroyed all your points sir.

What you said just gets more silly the more you say it.

The Daniel 11:21-34 VERSES ARE ABOUT THE FINAL ANTICHRIST, called there a "vile person"!!!

That "vile person" is ALSO the "little horn" OF DANIEL 7 that MAKES WAR WITH THE SAINTS AT THE END OF THIS WORLD UNTIL "the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; (Daniel 7:22).

That is ALSO the SAME "little horn" of Daniel 8:9-14 that TAKES AWAY THE DAILY SACRIFICE AND CASTS THE SANCTUARY DOWN BY REASON OF TRANSGRESSION OF DESOLATION, i.e., the "abomination of desolation" Jesus forewarned about FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD!!!


You obviously have been SELECTIVE reading your Ellen White prophetess material while being closed off like she is your dead spirit guide or something!!! You don't have any more clue about the events for the end in the Book of Daniel than does a church mouse!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

What you said just gets more silly the more you say it.

The Daniel 11:21-34 VERSES ARE ABOUT THE FINAL ANTICHRIST, called there a "vile person"!!!

That "vile person" is ALSO the "little horn" OF DANIEL 7 that MAKES WAR WITH THE SAINTS AT THE END OF THIS WORLD UNTIL "the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; (Daniel 7:22).

This is where guys like you get off tracked, ONE WORD being use does not mean it always has to be about the same person or thing. For instance, those who came out of great tribulation in Rev. 7:9-17 do not have to come out of the Greatest Ever Troubles, the Church Age had great tribulation also, it did not say they came out of the Greatest Ever Troubles. The scriptures show those are the Pre Trib Raptured Saints, because in the 5th Seal the 70th week Martyrs are told specifically they must wait until after the Beasts reign. In Rev. 20:4 we see they only get judged AFTER the 2nd coming. So, people take great tribulation and think that has to be the Greatest ever tribulation, it not only doesn't have to be, it isn't.

So, the Anti-Christ has a forerunner, his name was Antiochus, of course he is going to be just like the coming Anti-Christ, he will be vile he printed coins calling himself a god (Epiphanes means God Manifest) but if you can't understand Dan. 12:21-34ish was about Antiochus after I gave you the historical facts for each verse ten you just have tunnel vision brother.

I showed you the verse that says it will not be as "The "Former", or "The Latter". I showed you what Chittim means (Rome), and that a Roman Senator drew a circle around Antiochus and dared him to leave that circle without giving him an answer.

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former(when Antiochus invaded them before in verses 25-26), or as the latter(verses 40-43 when the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt). {{{ This is a chapter where we see God's Perspective of the WHOLE Greek Kingdom from Alexander the Great to the Anti-Christ, with all kings mentioned, why would you think Antiochus would not be spoken of? This is God telling us in verses 30 and 31 that Antiochus will not be allowed to invade Egypt (KOTS) in this instance as he formerly did, nor as the coming Anti-Christ will be allowed to do in the end times. If Antiochus was NOT ALLOWED to conquer Egypt in verses 30-31 how does he then conquer them in verses 40-43 ? You are all over the place, we know Chittim means Rome here, we also know a Roman Senator did this, it is documented history brother.}}}


30 For the ships of Chittim(Rome SEE BELOW) shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

This clearly shows Antiochus was ANGRY & GREIVED because Rome forbade him from conquering Egypt again, thus he turns and goes after Israel and the holy covenant [peoples]. Who is going to tell the coming Anti-Christ he can't conquer Egypt? No one !!

#3794 Chittim or Kittim = "bruisers"

Patrial from an unused name denoting Cyprus (only in the plural); a Kittite or Cypriote; hence an islander in general, that is, the Greeks or Romans on the shores opposite Palestine:—Chittim, Kittim.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

Well, we know it wasn't the Greeks because Antiochus was the Greek king, so this s referring to the Romans. They forbade Antiochus from invading Egypt again. But the Anti-Christ will be allowed to conquer them in the latter times. Being wrong is no big deal brother, unless ones ego keeps then from understanding the truth being wrong only means we have learned God's truth.

Yes, Dan. 7:22 is about the Anti-Christ, but Antiochus murdered 90,000 Jews, he was vile also brother. And he was killed via a sickness (WITHOUT HANDS) just like the Anti-Christ will be killed WITHOUT HANDS.

That is ALSO the SAME "little horn" of Daniel 8:9-14 that TAKES AWAY THE DAILY SACRIFICE AND CASTS THE SANCTUARY DOWN BY REASON OF TRANSGRESSION OF DESOLATION, i.e., the "abomination of desolation" Jesus forewarned about FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD!!!

Yes, Daniel 8:9-14 is indeed the end time Anti-Christ, the 2300 thus is really 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrificial Oblations that will be taken away. (1150 days). So, you are correct on all of those, but you fail to insert Antiochus at all in a chapter where Gid give us EVERY Greek King for a reason !! God is showing us what the end tine Anti-Christ will be like via Antiochus Epiphanes. Then we get the Anti-Christ/Little Horn in verses 36-45.

You obviously have been SELECTIVE reading your Ellen White prophetess material while being closed off like she is your dead spirit guide or something!!! You don't have any more clue about the events for the end in the Book of Daniel than does a church mouse!

I don't nit read cultists, LOL, 90 percent of people understand Antiochus is Dan. 11:21-34 brother. Even historians understand it and thus say this had to be written after Antiochus lived.

Look, a lot of people get Dan. 8:9-14 wrong, even preachers, so I implore you give it a second look brother. We don't get every Greek King and not get Antiochus the Little Horns exact likeness.

 

[ScottA]

Yea! Scott! you are still speaking gobbledygook in post #21 and making no sense at all.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

 

[ScottA]

The Daniel 11:21-34 VERSES ARE ABOUT THE FINAL ANTICHRIST, called there a "vile person"!!!

That same original word is also used here:

Isa 53:3​

He is despised H959 and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, H959 and we esteemed him not.​

 

[Jay Ross]

1 Corinthians 2:14​

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

Ah Scott, you are using scripture to hide your nastiness. Have you considered that God has shown you this scripture for you to consider the errors of your postings.

 

[ScottA]

Ah Scott, you are using scripture to hide your nastiness. Have you considered that God has shown you this scripture for you to consider the errors of your postings.

God has declared the scriptures to you, and I have also. Who is it that has been "nasty?" Examine yourself.

 

[Jay Ross]

God has declared the scriptures to you, and I have also. Who is it that has been "nasty?" Examine yourself.

Ah, ScottA, keep justifying yourself as being the true oracle of God's word. It just reinforces why I treat your proclamations of "great" understanding with the distain they deserve. I am sure that others do so as well.

Perhaps we can stop here without going down the rabbit hole into the warren of lostness.

 

[ScottA]

Ah, ScottA, keep justifying yourself as being the true oracle of God's word. It just reinforces why I treat your proclamations of "great" understanding with the distain they deserve. I am sure that other do so as well.

Perhaps we can stop here without going down the rabbit hole into the warren of lostness.

 

[doctrox]

In the prevailing view of Bible prophecy, the well known passage in Daniel chapter 9 concerning the 70 weeks of Daniel is commonly interpreted to put forth the proposition that the Antichrist will make a 7 year treaty with the Jewish people. But is this proposition actually accurate, and if it is not, what are the implications for the rather large cluster of prophetic interpretations that rest upon this idea of a treaty that will be broken "in the midst of the week?" (Daniel 9:27)

Daniel's 70th week is one of the premier prophetic passages in the entire Bible - but it has been distorted to the point where the interpretation that is popularly offered is so far off from what the text actually says that most believers simply take the interpretation for granted. This traditional interpretation has become so deeply ingrained that study Bibles routinely offer it in their margin notes. Indeed, few people are aware that it is this very text that is the primary passage used to teach the faulty idea of a 7-year tribulation, and the fictional 7-year treaty. The truth is, there is not one verse in the entire Bible that teaches either concept.

The key to Daniel's 70 Week passage is found in the summary of what is to occur during a period described as "70 weeks." That summary occurs in Daniel 9:24:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to
[a] finish the transgression
and to make an end of sins,
[c] and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
[d] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
[e] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
[f] and to anoint the most holy."​

Various sequential aspects of the prophecy are then detailed, including how long it will be until the coming of "Messiah the prince," and how long His ministry will last. These details are found in verses 25 and 26. Then the prophecy bluntly informs us that after the Messiah has come and gone, an unnamed "people" will come and destroy "the city and the sanctuary." (verse 26)

The last aspect of the prophecy elaborates on the destruction of the sanctuary and the abominations that are to occur. It even describes the reason for the devastation as the text tells us it is "...for the overspreading of abominations [that] he shall make it desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Once again, it's crucial that we see that Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of these prophecies - and the totality of what He accomplishes is in verse 24. One may simply read through the points of verse 24 and ask WHO fulfills each and every aspect of the prophecy? The answer is JESUS CHRIST.


Another way to approach this is to reverse the perspective. Does the Antichrist "finish the transgression?" Of course not. Can it be said that the Beast is the one who will "make an end of sins?" Obviously not. Does the Son of Perdition "make reconciliation for iniquity?" The answer is self-evident. Does the wicked one "seal up the vision and prophecy?" He does not. And does the Antichrist "anoint the most holy?" Of course not.

The focal point of the entire prophecy is JESUS CHRIST. It may also be instructive to recognize that because we are reading this prophecy so many years after its fulfillment we don't fully appreciate the incredible accuracy in it. We need to point out that Daniel's incredible work was written about 550 years before JESUS was born!

It's worth noting that the coming of the Messiah was always the central hope implied in virtually every prophecy. The belief that God would send a Messiah is the great historic longing that existed in almost every historic time period of Israel and Judah. One of the great wonders of this prophecy is that it not only provided precious details about the arrival of the Messiah, it even included a countdown to the events that would lead to His arrival!

Conversely, the Antichrist is never mentioned. There is no mention of a 7-year treaty, nor a 7-year tribulation. All of those understandings have been artificially attached to the prophecy. The central message in this entire prophecy is the arrival of the Messiah, and what will happen once He arrives. Having said that, let's take it chronologically.

The first part of the prophecy, after the summary in verse 24, breaks down the period into separate components. Verse 25 says that "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks." Most prophecy teachers have recognized the 'year for a day' principle in this prophetic language. Under this perspective, each "week" is seen as a seven year period. Thus, the first period of "seven weeks" may accurately be depicted as seven seven-year periods - or 49 years. The second period of "threescore and two weeks" (which is 62 weeks) may be seen as 62 seven-year periods, or 434 years. That totals 69 "weeks" or 483 years - leaving only the third period of one "week" (7 years) for the total of 70 weeks.

What the text is saying is that the commandment to build Jerusalem will trigger three time periods. To offer a rough paraphrase, it's telling us the commandment will be given, then 49 years later something related to the prophecy will happen. Then a period of 434 years will elapse, and then the Messiah will arrive. The last period of 7 years will then elapse. A characterization of the first portion of the prophecy is added when the text tells us the time when the sanctuary is to be rebuilt will be "troublous."

Textual evidence in the historical books of Nehemiah and Ezra suggest that it took about 49 years to rebuild the wall and the temple after the command to construct them was given by the Persian king Cyrus: "Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah." (Ezra 1:2).

After the initial building period of 49 years elapsed, the second period of 434 years went by with almost nothing occurring that was related to the messianic expectation. This second period is the period between the last book of the Old Testament (Malachi) and the coming of Jesus Christ - and it turns out to be 434 years!

It is at this point that the gigantic error is made in the prophetic interpretation - and it changes the meaning of almost everything. Because the prophecy is broken up into 3 period (49 years, 434 years, and 7 years), prophecy interpreters claim that the prophecy was "suspended" after the Messiah arrived, and the last 7 year period, which they identify as the tribulation, was pushed far into the future. They then say the Antichrist will emerge and inaugurate that last 7-year period. The problem is, the text never actually says any of that, nor does it even infer a gap between the 69th and 70th week.

The Messiah arrives after the 2nd period of 434 years (62 weeks in the text). There is no reason to believe the unfolding of the timeline stops at that point. Thus, the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 70th week and it commenced when He arrived. Remember, the focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah who must accomplish everything specified within the 70-week period.

After the Messiah arrives, the text simply continues with the chronological description: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...." (Daniel 9:26) This verse is simply saying that after the second period of 434 years (the 62 weeks) has gone by, the Messiah is to be "cut off." It then continues the chronological statement from the point of the 'cutting off' and says that at some unspecified time after the Messiah is cut off, "the city and the sanctuary" will be destroyed.

 

[doctrox]

...continued...

In the next verse, the prophecy provides us with the details of the cutting off of the Saviour. Again, the focal point of the entire prophecy is the Messiah, so after He arrives, "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...." (Daniel 9:27) This is precisely what would be expected as when He arrived, there would be "one week" left to the 70 weeks. The obvious question should be how can the Antichrist suddenly get inserted into this prophecy and "confirm" a covenant that has never been mentioned? Indeed, the Antichrist himself has never been mentioned in the entire text!

Furthermore, it's useful to recognize that the term covenant is not the same term as the word treaty. We separate the Bible into the Old Testament and the New Testament, and the word "testament" is interchangeable with the term covenant (see Hebrews 9:15). On the other hand, a treaty is a political instrument that is used between nations - not a sacred agreement between God and man.

In the Old Testament, God made an agreement with man that if the people will adhere to His "covenant," He will protect and keep them and be their God. This is articulated in Exodus with the children of Israel where God says "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people...." (Exodus 19:5). In the very passage in question in Daniel, which is prophetic on its face, God further promises that He will bring the Messiah who will confirm the covenant that He has already made.

Although it is a new covenant in that it brings out certain characteristics that were somewhat veiled in the Old Testament, because it is a covenant with Israel, it is actually a renewal of the covenant that God made through Moses. Thus in Jeremiah, God says "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel...." (Jeremiah 31:31)

Therefore, about 50 years after God promised to Jeremiah that He would remember Israel with another covenant that will build upon the existing covenant, He tells Daniel that "the Messiah the Prince...shall confirm the covenant with many...." (Daniel 9:25, 27).

The New Testament writers recognized this as the Apostle Paul explicitly wrote on the subject when he stated "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after...." (Galatians 3:17) Through this confirmation, we learn that Christ is the heir of all the promises. He is the Seed of Abraham upon whom the blessings are bestowed, and He is the only one who "brings in everlasting righteousness." (Daniel 9:2).

The twist on the truth that has come to dominate the prophetic expectations of so many millions will reap a bitter harvest. As vast numbers of Christians are deceived on this subject, their lives and actions are predicated on a false understanding of the immediate future - and the fruit of it will be dreadful. Very few understand the enormous spiritual ramifications of embracing significant error in our prophetic perspective. Indeed, it was the fact that Israel did not recognize the time of their visitation from God that brought the nation of Israel to "the overspreading of abominations" that were the natural outgrowth of their refusal to recognize Jesus as their promised Messiah.

Literally millions upon millions of believers are now similarly deceived in that the person explicitly described in the scriptures as the MESSIAH is actually seen as the Antichrist. Our Saviour told the Pharisees that attributing the works of God to the Devil was the unpardonable sin (Matthew 12:31). The blind religious leaders of yesteryear claimed the person doing the miracles in their presence was actually a vessel of the Devil. The truth was, that person was Jesus Christ and the Jewish leaders committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in their refusal to recognize Jesus was the individual prophesied of in Daniel 9:27.

How is it any different when the modern day Pharisees, the denominational Christians of our time, are now claiming these magnificent prophecies apply to the Antichrist, when the exact opposite is true as these words testify of the awesome truth of "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ?" (Titus 2:13) As the import of this great truth sinks in, it affects practically everything - including the actual identity of the chosen people, our individual standing in Christ, and the immediate future of America in a prophetic context.

The very fact that most "believers" will simply discard this pointed exegesis testifies that it is the organized churches that have perpetrated the great fraud that Christendom finds herself entangled in. And because of their lazy refusal to study the truth of the scriptures on a personal level - instead relying upon the false doctrines of their hireling shepherds - we will shortly see the big surprise in which so many that thought they were saved will be turned away. The scriptures will not be broken, and they tell us it is "for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience." (Colossians 3:6)

-- James

 

[Davy]

This is where guys like you get off tracked, ONE WORD being use does not mean it always has to be about the same person or thing. For instance, those who came out of great tribulation in Rev. 7:9-17 do not have to come out of the Greatest Ever Troubles, the Church Age had great tribulation also, it did not say they came out of the Greatest Ever Troubles. The scriptures show those are the Pre Trib Raptured Saints, because in the 5th Seal the 70th week Martyrs are told specifically they must wait until after the Beasts reign. In Rev. 20:4 we see they only get judged AFTER the 2nd coming. So, people take great tribulation and think that has to be the Greatest ever tribulation, it not only doesn't have to be, it isn't.

You've gotten off track from the AOD topic in the Book of Daniel, showing that you are 'reaching'.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE written anywhere in God's Word. So stop trying to use that as some lame excuse for your theories.

So, the Anti-Christ has a forerunner, his name was Antiochus, of course he is going to be just like the coming Anti-Christ, he will be vile he printed coins calling himself a god (Epiphanes means God Manifest) but if you can't understand Dan. 12:21-34ish was about Antiochus after I gave you the historical facts for each verse ten you just have tunnel vision brother.

Antiochus Epiphanese took Jerusalem with an ARMY. The Daniel 11 prophecy about the "vile person" instead comes to power using PEACE, not an army. Thus Antiochus and the final Antichrist that comes to power in Jerusalem for the end using PEACE are different times of a similar event. God is checking out those who catch or don't catch these different prophetic parameters in His Word, and those who believe the "vile person" prophecy in Dan.11 is past history have missed it.

I showed you the verse that says it will not be as "The "Former", or "The Latter". I showed you what Chittim means (Rome), and that a Roman Senator drew a circle around Antiochus and dared him to leave that circle without giving him an answer.

The ships of Chittim relate to Numbers 24:24, but for the latter day time in Daniel 11:30 about an 'unknown' army to comes against the final Antichrist. It ain't about some Roman senator playing politics. Chittim means 'the bruisers'.

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former(when Antiochus invaded them before in verses 25-26), or as the latter(verses 40-43 when the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt). {{{ This is a chapter where we see God's Perspective of the WHOLE Greek Kingdom from Alexander the Great to the Anti-Christ, with all kings mentioned, why would you think Antiochus would not be spoken of? This is God telling us in verses 30 and 31 that Antiochus will not be allowed to invade Egypt (KOTS) in this instance as he formerly did, nor as the coming Anti-Christ will be allowed to do in the end times. If Antiochus was NOT ALLOWED to conquer Egypt in verses 30-31 how does he then conquer them in verses 40-43 ? You are all over the place, we know Chittim means Rome here, we also know a Roman Senator did this, it is documented history brother.}}}

No, that is NOT about the time of Alexander's Greece. Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem with an army back in 170 B.C., about 200 years PRIOR to Jesus warning about the "abomination of desoaltion". So you cannot try and ISOLATE THIS DANIEL 11 PROPHECY TO YOUR OWN LIKING. You MUST stay with what is written, and that INCLUDES CHRIST'S OLIVET PROPHECY FOR THE END where He referred to this abomination to be setup by the "vile person" (Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14).

30 For the ships of Chittim(Rome SEE BELOW) shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

This clearly shows Antiochus was ANGRY & GREIVED because Rome forbade him from conquering Egypt again, thus he turns and goes after Israel and the holy covenant [peoples]. Who is going to tell the coming Anti-Christ he can't conquer Egypt? No one !!

You skipped the previous Daniel 11 verses about the "vile person" prophecy. Can't do that. In those previous verses, the "vile person" is to come to power as king USING PEACE. And he will make the "league" with the Jews re-establishing old covenant worship in Jerusalem.

That is what that "holy covenant" is about. And it MUST mean he rebuilds the temple in order for the Jews to re-start that old covenant worship with sacrifices for the end! Today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to build their next temple, and have already been doing sacrifices on passover, on a hill overlooking the temple mount.

Because the placing of the "abomination that maketh desolate" IDOL means a spiritual desolating of the Jerusalem temple, it means there MUST BE A STANDING JEWISH TEMPLE for these events to happen. THE ROMANS NEVER DID PLACE AN IDOL IN THE TEMPLE OF 70 A.D., BECAUSE THE TEMPLE BURNED DOWN BEFORE THEY COULD GET CONTROL OF IT. So if you're going to try and use historical data, then you need to adhere to the actual history.

#3794 Chittim or Kittim = "bruisers"

Patrial from an unused name denoting Cyprus (only in the plural); a Kittite or Cypriote; hence an islander in general, that is, the Greeks or Romans on the shores opposite Palestine:—Chittim, Kittim.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

Well, we know it wasn't the Greeks because Antiochus was the Greek king, so this s referring to the Romans. They forbade Antiochus from invading Egypt again. But the Anti-Christ will be allowed to conquer them in the latter times. Being wrong is no big deal brother, unless ones ego keeps then from understanding the truth being wrong only means we have learned God's truth.

The Scriptures are not wrong, which is what you are actually attacking, not me.

And the REASON YOU ARE WRONG is because Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse SIGNS for the very end of this world FORETOLD of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL being setup by the final Antichrist at the end, and Jesus said that ABOUT 200 YEARS AFTER... ANTIOCHUS HAD ALREADY BEEN DEAD! Thus Antiochus can only serve as a BLUEPRINT FOR THE FINAL ANTICHRIST and that's all!

Yes, Dan. 7:22 is about the Anti-Christ, but Antiochus murdered 90,000 Jews, he was vile also brother. And he was killed via a sickness (WITHOUT HANDS) just like the Anti-Christ will be killed WITHOUT HANDS.

Doesn't matter how vile YOU... think Antiochus was, your view is not in the prophecy there in Dan.11. What actually points to the "vile person" owning that title is how he will setup IDOL worship with the Rev.13 "image of the beast" IDOL in Jerusalem for the end, and demand all bow to it or be killed. That is what will make him "vile".

Yes, Daniel 8:9-14 is indeed the end time Anti-Christ, the 2300 thus is really 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrificial Oblations that will be taken away. (1150 days). So, you are correct on all of those, but you fail to insert Antiochus at all in a chapter where Gid give us EVERY Greek King for a reason !! God is showing us what the end tine Anti-Christ will be like via Antiochus Epiphanes. Then we get the Anti-Christ/Little Horn in verses 36-45.

Nah, there you go off on men's doctrine tangents, as that 2300 days in Daniel 8 means LITERALLY 2300 DAYS.

And Antiochus Epiphanes is NOT pointed to in that Dan.8 chapter at all. That is YOU trying to add to the Scriptures, because if you 'could' proof that Dan.8 transgression of desolation was about Antiochus, then it would mean the WHOLE abomination of desolation PROPHECY would have to be PAST history, and it ain't.

I don't nit read cultists, LOL, 90 percent of people understand Antiochus is Dan. 11:21-34 brother. Even historians understand it and thus say this had to be written after Antiochus lived.

Look, a lot of people get Dan. 8:9-14 wrong, even preachers, so I implore you give it a second look brother. We don't get every Greek King and not get Antiochus the Little Horns exact likeness.

Now that's a stupid statement, that 90% of people understand Daniel 11 is about Antiochus. That shows me that YOU ARE THE TYPE OF DECEIVING PERSON THAT WILL SAY ANY LIE... TO TRY TO DECEIVE THE BRETHREN. You well know... the "vile person" prophecy of Daniel 11 is about the FINAL ANTICHRIST at the end of this world. That is why you are TRYING SO HARD TO CONVINCE that it is not about the final Antichrist at the very end of this world.

 

[ScottA]

In the prevailing view of Bible prophecy, the well known passage in Daniel chapter 9 concerning the 70 weeks of Daniel is commonly interpreted to put forth the proposition that the Antichrist will make a 7 year treaty with the Jewish people. But is this proposition actually accurate, and if it is not, what are the implications for the rather large cluster of prophetic interpretations that rest upon this idea of a treaty that will be broken "in the midst of the week?" (Daniel 9:27)

Daniel's 70th week is one of the premier prophetic passages in the entire Bible - but it has been distorted to the point where the interpretation that is popularly offered is so far off from what the text actually says that most believers simply take the interpretation for granted. This traditional interpretation has become so deeply ingrained that study Bibles routinely offer it in their margin notes. Indeed, few people are aware that it is this very text that is the primary passage used to teach the faulty idea of a 7-year tribulation, and the fictional 7-year treaty. The truth is, there is not one verse in the entire Bible that teaches either concept.

The key to Daniel's 70 Week passage is found in the summary of what is to occur during a period described as "70 weeks." That summary occurs in Daniel 9:24: ...

James,

Thank you, that was very well stated...and you have it quite close. Yet, even in your explanation there is perhaps a 26+- year gap--not that it is really a problem--because your point is correct: Daniel's prophecy regards the Messiah and not the anti-Christ, and mostly all of Christendom is deceived as a result of believing the speculations of those who did not even understand the prophecy on the most basic level, adding many lies that have been believed--just as it was foretold by Jesus, Peter, and Paul.

However, the issue still remains an enigma of worldly terms and times, rather than being understood as the things of God in which there are no actual times. The answer to this is referred to by Daniel who also gave the terms, rather than in "weeks" which was to intentionally delay the times, as best defined from the perspective of God who does not operate on a timeline, saying rather: "a time, times, and half a time." The answer or key to the enigma of "weeks" is quite literally given within the same prophecy, as simply being time broken into two parts and the dividing of time. The understanding of which has been restrained "until He who restrains is taken out of the way", which is the time of the sounding of the seventh angel during these times.

As such, we should alternatively be embracing (increasing/decreasing) the idea of being "transformed by the renewing of your mind" and taking on the perspective of God, rather than that of men and the ways of this world which has held us within the enigma by holding to our own terms. In this vein of perspective then, "weeks" becomes synonymous with "times" very often the same original word translated differently in error. By applying the claims of the prophecy rather to "a time, times, and half a time" (as referring to all of time), the things of time then all occurred "before the foundation of the world" (and time), just as it is also true of the Lamb that was slain ("cut off").

"A time, times, and half a time" then is not actually about the times of this world, but rather about how the events of God are revealed in the shadows to those whose eyes become open to "all truth", "but each in his own order." Hence the enigma. "A Time" then, is all time; "times" is the time before Messiah, and the time after; and "half a time" is the "dividing of the light from the darkness"...which is "determined" for "Daniel's people"--that is, those following the first Adam, and also the Last.

 

[Timtofly]

Ookaayyy... I'll follow along. Educate me. I wasn't aware there were robots 1000 years ago, not do I remember suggesting it, but I am sure you have a reason for asking.

When an image that looks human comes to life, what do you call that? Pinocchio?

 

[ScottA]

When an image that looks human comes to life, what do you call that? Pinocchio?

God called it "man."

Genesis 1:26​

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,​

 

[Timtofly]

He is right, Dan. 9:27 is the Anti-Christ. Jesus/God doesn't make one week covenants, they make perpetual covenants. The Daniel 70 weeks Prophecy has THREE MARKERS, but the Prophecy is about Jerusalem and her people or Israel, not 1.) The Wall 2.) The Messiah's Death 3.) or the end time The Anti-Christs Agreement per se. These are Markers but the Prophesy is about Israel repenting before the 70 weeks judgment can come to pass. And it is three separate prophesies instead of one for a reason.

The verse does not say a Covenant was made. It says confirmed. God is confirming with the many who are still under the Covenant, but still alive on earth.


Man's theology is way off to think there is a week or 7 year treaty. Both are erroneous views. In the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet is when this confirmation happens. This is the last of the redeemed on earth. Satan will only get 42 months, if God in foreknowledge knows some or even one soul is beheaded and rejects the mark of the beast. If no one is left to behead, then Satan will not even get 42 months. There will never be an AoD then.

The Atonement Covenant is strengthened and still extended to those who will be beheaded. That is what Revelation 10 and time being up is about. This is the last roll call of the redeemed. The point is that the strength of the Atonement goes on even in the midst of this time of abomination and desolation. This 42 months splits a set of 7 days in half. Not a set of 7 years, as there is no 3.5 years of tribulation after Armageddon. What is the point? All of Adam's flesh is dead physically after Armageddon. No one is left to redeem. Those beheaded prior to Armageddon is all there is. They are still covered by the Atonement Covenant.

 

[Timtofly]

God called it "man."

Genesis 1:26​

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,​

So Satan creates a human man in Revelation 13?

"And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

So this man Satan creates is your AC, now you know. Don't call it a robot, or Pinocchio. Call this image a man if you want to. I was not talking about Genesis 1 and 2. I was talking about your future antichrist.