The False vs True Gift Of Tongues

[The Learner]

is this thread closed? no icons to say well done.

 

[Peterlag]

Who was Jesus speaking to as recorded in the John scripture you cited? It was his apostles, not you, not me, not us today. Has the Spirit taught you all things and brought them into remembrance? YOU (nor I or anyone else) are not the YOU that is recorded in this scripture; it's his apostles. Go back to the previous chapter and read from there. This is a mistake that many make when reading scripture; they don't take into consideration who specifically and when it was written or about, and then go off on a tangent assuming it refers to everyone, then, now, always, etc. Read it again in correct context.

I write a lot about walking by the spirit which is what Jesus was referring to and since the churches don't teach it is why almost nobody knows what the heck I'm talking about. The churches teach their members to walk in their old dead sin nature lives and not to walk in the spirit. So it's a lost art. Folks all over the internet say walking by the spirit is to follow the teachings of Jesus or to walk as he did doing the Word. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

 

[amadeus]

Who was Jesus speaking to as recorded in the John scripture you cited? It was his apostles, not you, not me, not us today?

Who is reading it? Am I not the reader reading what God has provided? Who has decided that is it not addressed to the reader?

Has the Spirit taught you all things and brought them into remembrance?

The Spirit is teaching so long as we are not quenching. Who has received all that God has to offer? Not me! But He is not finished with me yet.

YOU (nor I or anyone else) are not the YOU that is recorded in this scripture; it's his apostles.

The original apostles received what they did and they have finished their courses. Mine is still underway.

Go back to the previous chapter and read from there. This is a mistake that many make when reading scripture; they don't take into consideration who specifically and when it was written or about, and then go off on a tangent assuming it refers to everyone, then, now, always, etc. Read it again in correct context.

Again, who has decided that it was only for the Apostles? Has not God provided the written scriptures and sent the Holy Spirit to quicken them within us?

Ac 2:38	Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39	"For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Who is called by God? Within whom are the scriptures quickened? To whom is the promise? Who is excluded from that promise?
Give God the glory!

 

[amigo de christo]

My testimony stands. I would be untrue to both God and myself to speak against it based on a thesis or conversation or debate or discussion using human logic. We do live for God by faith rather than by logic.

Heb 10:38

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Trivia question time .
Now many men can cliam to know math . just as many can claim to KNOW GOD
many men can cliam we know math we know addition , just as many can even cliam to know CHRIST JESUS .
if a man told you , amadues , i know math and i know addition and i tell you two plus two is five
and then another man stands and says hey dumby , i know math and i know addition and you are wrong
its six
and another then stands and says hey dummbies you are both wrong , I know math and i know addition
and i am telling you all two plus two is eight .
TELL me how can they be right and know math or additoin when not only do their answers not agree
but they all the wrong answers .
And yet many today say I KNOW GOD , I KNOW LOVE , I KNOW JESUS
and yet preach another god , another jesus , another gopsel , another love .
Yet all cliam WE BELIEVE , WE KNOW .
now any good math book would show you that two plus two is four .
THE BIBLE . that book was inspired by GOD and yet many be a twisting and omitting things
and hollering bout a love that contradicts both GOD and the love of GOD .
Ever wonder why i say TIME TO READ BIBLE FOR OURSELVES
and beware the tutors , for many a tutor and his truth DONT ADD UP .

 

[amigo de christo]

Who is reading it? Am I not the reader reading what God has provided? Who has decided that is it not addressed to the reader?

The Spirit is teaching so long as we are not quenching. Who has received all that God has to offer? Not me! But He is not finished with me yet.

The original apostles received what they did and they have finished their courses. Mine is still underway.

Again, who has decided that it was only for the Apostles? Has not God provided the written scriptures and sent the Holy Spirit to quicken them within us?

Ac 2:38	Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39	"For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Who is called by God? Within whom are the scriptures quickened? To whom is the promise? Who is excluded from that promise?
Give God the glory!

beware men for many now teach according to thier own doctrinal learnings and teachings of men .
Let us use math as an example .
many now say , now that old math book was not written for us today
here let me show you the new addition that applies to us .
and rather than teaching you addition they are teaching subtraction .
saying two plus two is now zero . that old book was not written for todays math men
its math no longer applies to us . come the new two plus two is zero and not four .
and yet what they teach has a form of math , aka subtraction , ONLY , YEAH ITS NOT ADDITOIN and it be the wrong answer .

 

[amigo de christo]

beware men for many now teach according to thier own doctrinal learnings and teachings of men .
Let us use math as an example .
many now say , now that old math book was not written for us today
here let me show you the new addition that applies to us .
and rather than teaching you addition they are teaching subtraction .
saying two plus two is now zero . that old book was not written for todays math men
its math no longer applies to us . come the new two plus two is zero and not four .

 

[amigo de christo]

far too many are ever learning , but not able to come to THE TRUTH .

 

[DJT_47]

Who is reading it? Am I not the reader reading what God has provided? Who has decided that is it not addressed to the reader?

The Spirit is teaching so long as we are not quenching. Who has received all that God has to offer? Not me! But He is not finished with me yet.

The original apostles received what they did and they have finished their courses. Mine is still underway.

Again, who has decided that it was only for the Apostles? Has not God provided the written scriptures and sent the Holy Spirit to quicken them within us?

Ac 2:38	Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39	"For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Who is called by God? Within whom are the scriptures quickened? To whom is the promise? Who is excluded from that promise?
Give God the glory!

Just read the words of the scripture. It's history. Jesus was speaking directly and emphatically to THEM! Read the historical account. Because he said these things to THEM, what makes you think it has the same direct application to you? It doesn't. You were not directly taught anything by the Lord. He does not imply that YOU would recall all things taught, because YOU weren't one of those his words were addressed to. You are misreading, misapplying, and taking things out of intended context. Do we all receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2:38? Yes; but that's not at all the same as the John 14 as I indicated. The same holds true with the misapplicstion of Acts 1 and 2. It was the apostles to whom the power from on high was promised per Luke 24:49, which resulted in that being demonstrated by THEM in Acts 2 when the Spirit fell on THEM, and THEY spoke in other tongues which resulted in the conversion of the Jews and the start of the church at Jerusalem.

 

[amadeus]

Just read the words of the scripture. It's history. Jesus was speaking directly and emphatically to THEM! Read the historical account. Because he said these things to THEM, what makes you think it has the same directly application to you? It doesn't. You were ot directly taught anything by the Lord. He does not imply that YOU would recall all things taught, because YOU were it one of those his words were addressed to. You are misreading, misapplying, and taking things our of intended context. Do we all receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2:38? Yes; but that's not at all the same as the John 14 as I indicated. The same holds true with the misapplicstion of Acts 1 and 2. It was the apostles to whom the power from on high was promised per Luke 24:49, which resulted in that being demonstrated by THEM in Acts 2 when the Spirit fell on THEM, and THEY spoke in other tongues which resulted in the conversion of the Jews and the start of the church at Jerusalem.

And with all of this you are reading what I wrote without understanding. I won't argue the point as only God gives the increase. Without Him you and I can nothing good at all.

 

[Marvelloustime]

far too many are ever learning , but not able to come to THE TRUTH .

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Jesus said "these signs shall follow them that believe . . . they shall speak with new tongues"

Why do so many reject what Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18 ???

The devil tricked them which is easy for him to do since most that claim to be Christians don't accept all of God's Word.!

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Groanings - from G4726, which comes from G4726 (Strong's Greek Concordance) to sigh, murmur, pray inaudibly: KJV -- with grief, groan, grudge, sigh. Inarticulate speech, or speech that is not in any known language to man

(In 1 Corinthians 13:1, Paul speaks of talking in the tongues of angels - a supernatural language)

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:2 is speaking of our personal prayer language, which is something we do in our prayer closet and not in public. Some have the gift of speaking a tongue in a public meeting for interpretation by another but should NOT be doing so if no interpreter is present.

1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

This is speaking of different kinds of tongues and that some have the gift of interpretation of tongues. Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues for interpretation in a public setting like a church service... but that does not mean all don't have the gift of tongues for their private prayer life in their prayer closet between themselves and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all

Paul is indicating here that ALL should speak in tongues referring to personal prayer since not all pray in tongues in a public setting where an interpreter is present.

Isaiah 28:11,12
For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

There is a rest and knowledge that comes thru speaking in tongues
(the knowledge received has to agree with God's written Word, otherwise it's not the Holy Spirit speaking)

1 Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[Karl Peters]

But the other spirits, the 'unclean spirits' are also at work and we see it in these churchs with people speaking utter nonsense claiming it is from God, when it does not edify or uplift or spread the gospel to other peoples who speak other languages..

How do you know if another person is speaking "utter nonsense"???? Especially since it is in "tongues"?

And you write "peoples who speak other languages"???

It sounds to me like you don't speak in tongues but have made wrong conclusions based upon you own understanding as opposed to seeking the Lord and His understanding.

In the account in Acts, it reads:

Acts 2:8 “And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?

So it was not that they spoke all in the same language but that they "each" heard them in their own language!!!

And since there were "“Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs" and each was "hearing them in their own language" the Holy Spirit was acting like an interpreter for what was being said. It would be something like being at the United Nations and putting on some head set where someone interpreted what was being said to you in your own language!!!

If a Parthian was to speak in the language of the Medes, then the Elamites still would not be hearing it in their own language!!!

So your interpretation of what was happening is just wrong!!!!

So are you not like those there who didn't hear it all in their own language?

Acts 2:13 But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”

That is to say that the "devote" believers got the Holy Spirit and the interpretation of Tongues, but those who did not receive the Holy Spirit thought the devote believers were "drunk" - or as you put it "people speaking utter nonsense claiming it is from God."

So why didn't you ask the Lord our God, Jesus Christ about it? Do you not know that He sends His Holy Spirit to talk to you, even to give you the interpretation of Tongues?

So it was that Paul wrote"

1 Cor 14:10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.

and that Paul wrote so that "Christians" might seek the interpretation of tongues from the Holy Spirit, right?

1 Cor 14: 13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

So did you pray for the interpretation, like commanded in the Scriptures, via Paul?? Or did you just make an assumption from leaning on your own understanding??

Again, Paul wrote, "no kind is without meaning", but you concluded it "non-sense", to mean tongues is without meaning. So you failed to read what Paul wrote:

1 Cor 14:21 In the Law it is written, “BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME,” says the Lord.

Which brings us back to my first question:

How do you know if another person is speaking "utter nonsense"???? Especially since it is in "tongues"?

The answer, if that is still not clear to you, is seek the voice of the Lord and listen to Him!!!!! So don't be like those of which Paul wrote per the Lord:
"EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME

 

[Karl Peters]

People - getting an interpretation of Tongues, is an extremely easy things to do, so long as you have the Holy Spirit and the belief to hear from Him!!

You just ask Jesus Christ what is being said, and He instantly sends His Holy Spirit with His words - that small voice of His - and He gives you the interpretation in your own language!!!

Now once you start seeking Jesus Christ as you Lord, Teacher, and even your personal interpreter of tongues, you will hear Him and find out more on this subject.

You will find that sometimes He starts giving you the word for word interpretation as it is being said. He can also give you the interpretation after the fact - meaning that tongues is spoken then after it is spoken He gives you the interpretation. And you will find that sometimes He just gives you a basic and general interpretation - something like 'I was just given them a blessing." He might even not give you much at all, because He sometimes uses you praying in tongues for situations that are personal to someone else and you don't need to know that personal information. You will also find that He gives you an interpretation that is different from what another person gets - do you not go to church and listen to the message and often get a different meaning from the pastor's message than the person next to you?

God is a lot smarter and more aware than you think, or didn't we figure that out already? Yet we all need to listen to Him!!!!

So the main purpose for "tongues" (a language spoken that you don't understand by your own thinking) is designed to get you to seek our Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!!

If you won't even ask Him about a language you don't understand, even when it comes out your own mouth, what are you going to seek Him for????

 

[The Learner]

Trivia question time .
Now many men can cliam to know math . just as many can claim to KNOW GOD
many men can cliam we know math we know addition , just as many can even cliam to know CHRIST JESUS .
if a man told you , amadues , i know math and i know addition and i tell you two plus two is five
and then another man stands and says hey dumby , i know math and i know addition and you are wrong
its six
and another then stands and says hey dummbies you are both wrong , I know math and i know addition
and i am telling you all two plus two is eight .
TELL me how can they be right and know math or additoin when not only do their answers not agree
but they all the wrong answers .
And yet many today say I KNOW GOD , I KNOW LOVE , I KNOW JESUS
and yet preach another god , another jesus , another gopsel , another love .
Yet all cliam WE BELIEVE , WE KNOW .
now any good math book would show you that two plus two is four .
THE BIBLE . that book was inspired by GOD and yet many be a twisting and omitting things
and hollering bout a love that contradicts both GOD and the love of GOD .
Ever wonder why i say TIME TO READ BIBLE FOR OURSELVES
and beware the tutors , for many a tutor and his truth DONT ADD UP .

I forgot in binary 11 is ??? 3?

 

[The Learner]

Being a retired Math, History, Computer, Theology, Biblical Language Master Teacher-Professor of K to University. I appreciate the math parts. I taught at both Michigans, Wayne State, Maddonna Unversity, Ohio State, Wayne Community College and elsewhere. Public School Districts: Dearborn, Canton, Wayne-Westland and Catholic Schools. Often I would be sent to Schools in Michigan and Ohio to advise and teach other Teachers. I had to retire early without a pension due to Cancers and degenerate bone disease. Many Doctors and Nurses came to Jesus as a result of that. I forget what poloticians that recently visited me at home. Bidden was one, representive for Trump, Congress, local Govenor and Mayors.

 

[DJT_47]

Being a retired Math, History, Computer, Theology, Biblical Language Master Teacher-Professor of K to University. I appreciate the math parts. I taught at both Michigans, Wayne State, Maddonna Unversity, Ohio State, Wayne Community College and elsewhere. Public School Districts: Dearborn, Canton, Wayne-Westland and Catholic Schools. Often I would be sent to Schools in Michigan and Ohio to advise and teach other Teachers. I had to retire early without a pension due to Cancers and degenerate bone disease. Many Doctors and Nurses came to Jesus as a result of that. I forget what poloticians that recently visited me at home. Bidden was one, representive for Trump, Congress, local Govenor and Mayors.

Just a side note; I see you're very near by. I also live in Michigan, Sterling Heights. I guess we're neighbors!

 

[The Learner]

Just a side note; I see you're very near by. I also live in Michigan, Sterling Heights. I guess we're neighbors!

My Cosin Mike Murphy lives out there. Anything interresting at Christian Discount Bookstore?

 

[DJT_47]

My Cosin Mike Murphy lives out there. Anything interresting at Christian Discount Bookstore?

Haven't been there in a while but I have gotten a number of bibles there over the years.

 

[DJT_47]

My Cosin Mike Murphy lives out there. Anything interresting at Christian Discount Bookstore?

As a supplemental note, I recall working with someone named Mike Murphy many years ago. Not sure if it was at GD or GM; it's been a long, long time ago.

 

[amigo de christo]

I forgot in binary 11 is ??? 3?

binary , trinary , dinary .
two plus two is still four .
and the TRUTH in scripture IS STLL TRUTH and still applies to the church today
as it did in the first days of the church .
Sie problem with man lies within the flesh
and he or she who heeds the flesh will find , experience , cling too and hold onto
any version , image , thought , ideal about anything that suits that desire .
Thus often many within even christendom
will sit under a preacher who preaches the best version of GOD that suits what they wanted to beleive .
ONLY , only you already know exactly what i am about to say . IT AINT GOD , IT AINT CHRIST they ran to
nor be seated under . They seated under only a god who fed their own lustful desires
and convinced them IT BE GOD , it be LOVE , it be CHRIST .
man gonna always do what man gonna do . But mark these next words
lambs gonna do as THE REAL JESUS CHRIST , THE REAL HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD bids them to do .
And they wont be a loving the things contrary to that CHRIST , THAT GOD , THAT SPIRIT .
The bible is chalked plumb full of GODS own words
and yet how odd , most in christedom do anything they can to rather twist and omit
certain things in the bible , even making cliams as though errors be in the bible
or perhaps some of the things JESUS said no longer applies , OR perhaps etc , etc etc .
I SEE it all the time . And boy do i mean ALL the TIME .