The fig tree Generation=Will Not Die Before the Rapture!

[Jay Ross]

@Davy

How can one argue against such a one as you. When I present proof/evidence that the Greek word, γενεὰ found in Matthew 24:34, has the meaning of "age" rather than a descendant generation, you provided no contrary argument against what I wrote. You have resorted to a false argument as your only means of attempting to discredit what I have written in my posts above.

The attached PDF article, provides insight into the Genesis 15:16 prophecy and a rational as to why this prophecy is referring to this present time period, as it still has a little way to go. In the LXX the Hebrew word “וְד֥וֹר” is translated into the Greek word γενεά which is the same Greek word as found in Matthew 24:34. The article demonstrates that the time period in the Genesis 15:16 covers a period of time of around 4,000 years. The LXX uses the same Greek word γενεὰ with the variation is in the tics, which other more learned people inform me, is to indicate pronunciation rather than a difference in the word and its meaning, used in both instances.

If the Greek word is not referring to a descendant generation, but rather is referring to an age, which happens to be a 1,000 plus years, then our understanding of Matthew 24:34 has to be modified in light of this evidence.

Davy, please read the article carefully with due diligence and then come back and present your scriptural based arguments for consideration as a rebuttal of what I have written. Your false arguments simply do not cut it in my humble opinion.

Have a great read and a ponder on the attached article.

 

[Jay Ross]

No... Jesus identified that generation as that "wicked generation" of that very time when He spoke it and when they rejected Him.

ScottA, you are showing your ignorance once again. This has not been revealed to you by the Holy Spirit's leading.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

ScottA, you are showing your ignorance once again. This has not been revealed to you by the Holy Spirit's leading.

Shalom

Like you would know.

 

[Jay Ross]

Like you would know.

Yep, the evidence is found in what you posted. Sorry to be a kill joy.

 

[ScottA]

Yep, the evidence is found in what you posted. Sorry to be a kill joy.

Go ahead...make your case, that all may know the truth.

 

[Jay Ross]

Go ahead...make your case, that all may know the truth.

About you or Matthew 24:34?

 

[ScottA]

About you or Matthew 24:34?

Either way...you made it about me.

 

[Davy]

This is the word from those who have not seen Him coming in the clouds.

But if you only believe those who do not see Him who said "The kingdom of God does not come with observation" and "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” - you believe in something other than Christ.

You who make such claims without authority - what did you expect to see?

My claim is WITH authority, from The LORD GOD Almighty and His Son Jesus Christ, and in more than one language, for the translations from the Greek are accurate on these simple verses:

Matt 24:33-35
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV


It's people like you who need to go back to grammar school to learn how to comprehend simple written English.

"when ye shall see all these things" = when ALL the signs ("these things") that Jesus gave His disciples on the Mount of Olives are seen (and not necessarily by them, since "ye" can apply formally to all His Church, like who Jesus pointed to with the very last verse of Mark 13, to all, meaning to all His Church).

"This generation" = not necessarily the generation then on the Mount of Olives, but the generation that will see "all these things".

"shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" = the CONDITION of WHICH GENERATION He was pointing to. The only sign in His Olivet Discourse anyone can point to as having been fulfilled in the Apostle's day is the destruction of the temple they were looking at.

 

[Davy]

@Davy

How can one argue against such a one as you. When I present proof/evidence that the Greek word, γενεὰ found in Matthew 24:34, has the meaning of "age" rather than a descendant generation, you provided no contrary argument against what I wrote. You have resorted to a false argument as your only means of attempting to discredit what I have written in my posts above.

Do you really... think interpreting the Greek word aion as "age" instead of "world" changes the context of those signs Jesus gave in that Matthew 24 chapter??? The KJV translates Greek aion to "world" at least 39 times in the NT! Why don't you use your brain and do a bit of thinking for yourself on the chapter's context instead of just regurgitating a doctrine from men about that one word who don't know what they're talking about?

The attached PDF article, provides insight into the Genesis 15:16 prophecy and a rational as to why this prophecy is referring to this present time period, as it still has a little way to go. In the LXX the Hebrew word “וְד֥וֹר” is translated into the Greek word γενεά which is the same Greek word as found in Matthew 24:34. The article demonstrates that the time period in the Genesis 15:16 covers a period of time of around 4,000 years. The LXX uses the same Greek word γενεὰ with the variation is in the tics, which other more learned people inform me, is to indicate pronunciation rather than a difference in the word and its meaning, used in both instances.

If the Greek word is not referring to a descendant generation, but rather is referring to an age, which happens to be a 1,000 plus years, then our understanding of Matthew 24:34 has to be modified in light of this evidence.

Davy, please read the article carefully with due diligence and then come back and present your scriptural based arguments for consideration as a rebuttal of what I have written. Your false arguments simply do not cut it in my humble opinion.

Have a great read and a ponder on the attached article.

I'm not interested in reading PDFs of doctrines of men. The context of the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters are simple enough, and there's many other Bible Scriptures that backs up their context and timing of events.

 

[101G]

not trying to butt into the conversation. if you will may I say something on "this Generation".

a Generation here is defined by the "this" meaning a perpetual generation. example,Matthew 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?". here, this is the line of "EVIL-DOERS from Cain unto then at John Baptism. well that line, or Generation is still here with us today, "Evil-doers". just as "This Generation" of righteous-doers. nothing have change only the scenery. people are just as evil then as today, as well as the righteous.

our Lord made it clear, Matthew 12:39 "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas". evil is present here today, and in any Generation. scripture,

Galatians 1:3 "Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4 "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father". after our Lord's death evil is present in the generation after Christ.

so evil is in all generation until the Lord returns. then and only then will he put it down once for ever.

PCY

 

[ScottA]

My claim is WITH authority, from The LORD GOD Almighty and His Son Jesus Christ, and in more than one language, for the translations from the Greek are accurate on these simple verses:

Matt 24:33-35
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV


It's people like you who need to go back to grammar school to learn how to comprehend simple written English.

"when ye shall see all these things" = when ALL the signs ("these things") that Jesus gave His disciples on the Mount of Olives are seen (and not necessarily by them, since "ye" can apply formally to all His Church, like who Jesus pointed to with the very last verse of Mark 13, to all, meaning to all His Church).

"This generation" = not necessarily the generation then on the Mount of Olives, but the generation that will see "all these things".

"shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" = the CONDITION of WHICH GENERATION He was pointing to. The only sign in His Olivet Discourse anyone can point to as having been fulfilled in the Apostle's day is the destruction of the temple they were looking at.

You are making these things fit you, but they were not spoken to you. So instead of believing their witness, you look for your own witness, but not in the way that He described - not in the clouds, but in the flesh.

This you do, because you have put your faith in the written word, as if God himself did not say that He confounded it, and as if Jesus did not say His words are not literary, but spirit, spoke in parables, and must be revealed in spirit. This is unbelief and a lack of faith, relying on your own understanding, and for this you do not have the truth. Which is obvious, because you now call me names.

Nonetheless, for those who do believe: "till all these things be fulfilled", is true, and were fulfilled to those to whom He spoke it, as well as to those who "see Him as He is."

 

[Jay Ross]

My claim is WITH authority, from The LORD GOD Almighty and His Son Jesus Christ, and in more than one language, for the translations from the Greek are accurate on these simple verses:

Oh Davy, how would you know that the English translations are accurate as they replicate the doctrines of the men who where on the "committees" that agreed on the words chosen for the translations.

You condemned yourself when you wrote: -

Do you really... think interpreting the Greek word aion as "age" instead of "world" changes the context of those signs Jesus gave in that Matthew 24 chapter??? The KJV translates Greek aion to "world" at least 39 times in the NT! Why don't you use your brain and do a bit of thinking for yourself on the chapter's context instead of just regurgitating a doctrine from men about that one word who don't know what they're talking about?

I need no other testimony except the one that you yourself provided to prove that the bases of what you write is simply the doctrine of men, including yours, "who don't know what they're talking about".

Know what I mean.

Have a good day now.

 

[Jay Ross]

Go ahead...make your case, that all may know the truth.

ScottA, your words to Davy, reflect the very thing that you also do, do I need say any more: -

You are making these things fit you, but they were not spoken to you. So instead of believing their witness, you look for your own witness, but not in the way that He described - not in the clouds, but in the flesh.

This you do, because you have put your faith in the written word, as if God himself did not say that He confounded it, and as if Jesus did not say His words are not literary, but spirit, spoke in parables, and must be revealed in spirit. This is unbelief and a lack of faith, relying on your own understanding, and for this you do not have the truth. Which is obvious, because you now call me names.

Nonetheless, for those who do believe: "till all these things be fulfilled", is true, and were fulfilled to those to whom He spoke it, as well as to those who "see Him as He is."

You made the case against yourself and I am glad that I did not have to make it.

PS: - Please note, that your last paragraph in the above quote is what condemns you, as not all of Matthew 24-25 has been fulfilled yet, and, your words against Davy also speak against you like wearing a glove, "You are making these things fit you, but they were not spoken to you."

 

[ScottA]

PS: - Please note, that your last paragraph in the above quote is what condemns you, as not all of Matthew 24-25 has been fulfilled yet, and, your words against Davy also speak against you like wearing a glove, "You are making these things fit you, but they were not spoken to you."

Name one thing that has not yet been fulfilled that is not subjective and therefore a matter of interpretation and possible error.

 

[Jay Ross]

Name one thing that has not yet been fulfilled that is not subjective and therefore a matter of interpretation and possible error.

We could begin with Matthew 24:32 which has not yet been completely fulfilled. Oh but you will tell me that it requires interpretation and is therefore in error in respect to your interpretational understanding.

PS: - How about the end of the AGE of the ages.

 

[ScottA]

We could begin with Matthew 24:32 which has not yet been completely fulfilled. Oh but you will tell me that it requires interpretation and is therefore in error in respect to your interpretational understanding.

PS: - How about the end of the AGE of the ages.

Matthew 24:32
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near."

The fig tree is Israel and the Branch is Christ:

Isaiah 11:1
"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots."

Romans 15:12
"And again, Isaiah says: “There shall be a root of Jesse; And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles, In Him the Gentiles shall hope.”

...And in this Paul states the time of events as passing at that time from the Root of Jesse (Jesus) unto the gentiles via the Holy Spirit , saying in the following verses:

"14 Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. 15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, 16 that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 Therefore I have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the things which pertain to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient— 19 in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 20 And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation, 21 but as it is written:

“To whom He was not announced, they shall see;
And those who have not heard shall understand.”


As for the end of the age, your interpretation is in error as if meaning "the end of time", which it is not. But rather, "the end of the age" is not the end of time, but the beginning of the harvest, as it is written:

Matthew 13:39
"The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels."

John 4:35
"Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!"

Joel 1:7
"He has laid waste My vine, And ruined My fig tree; He has stripped it bare and thrown it away; Its branches are made white."

Therefore Jesus said, "So the last will be first, and the first last.”

 

[Davy]

You are making these things fit you, but they were not spoken to you.

Your guilty of what you accuse me of, it's your false doctrine of Preterism (or Historicism?) from men that tries to insert its theories into Christ's Olivet Discourse, with Full Preterism even teaching the false doctrine that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened in the Apostle's days!

Matthew 24:33-34 is grammatically clear. The generation that sees Christ's 2nd coming is the generation He said will see ALL THESE THINGS, meaning the signs He gave His disciples there while upon the Mount of Olives.

Mark 13:35-37
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Oh Davy, how would you know that the English translations are accurate as they replicate the doctrines of the men who where on the "committees" that agreed on the words chosen for the translations.

And so the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" say.

But those in Christ Jesus don't listen to them, they are like whited tombs Jesus said, but inside are full of dead men's bones. Such are the delvings of the higher critics.

 

[Davy]

Oh Davy, how would you know that the English translations are accurate as they replicate the doctrines of the men who where on the "committees" that agreed on the words chosen for the translations.

You condemned yourself when you wrote: -


I need no other testimony except the one that you yourself provided to prove that the bases of what you write is simply the doctrine of men, including yours, "who don't know what they're talking about".

Know what I mean.

Have a good day now.

Just so others know more about my answer, men's doctrines of Preterism (and Historicism to a point) believe Christ's Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. With the Greek word aion in Matt.24:3, which is translated as "world" in the KJV, they try to supplant that with the word "age" and then... here's the rub, and then they try to apply a different meaning to that word 'age' to make it say that was only the days of the Apostles, and that 'age' ended back then.

It's a very sneaky ploy by false doctrinists, but it's really a very silly and stupid ploy, because it's so... easy to know by Christ's context of His 2nd coming at the END OF THIS WORLD that His disciples were asking Him about that timing, and not some ignorant application of the end of the disciples' age.

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

These Preterists are so easy to unmask! By their doctrine (especially Full Preterists) they HAVE... to treat Jesus' 2nd coming as already past history IF they push their falseness saying all those signs Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse were fulfilled back in the Apostle's days! And that's where you got 'em, because God's Word is very clear about prophecy of Jesus' future 2nd coming AND ITS CONDITIONS of what all it involves (our GATHERING TO HIM! PHYSICALLY!). So it's very easy to know where their false doctrines are coming from, because who would want to go against God's Word about the future return of our Lord Jesus Christ? Who wants to rule this world instead? Answer that to yourselves and you'll know where their doctrines originate.

 

[ScottA]

Your guilty of what you accuse me of, it's your false doctrine of Preterism (or Historicism?) from men that tries to insert its theories into Christ's Olivet Discourse, with Full Preterism even teaching the false doctrine that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened in the Apostle's days!

Matthew 24:33-34 is grammatically clear. The generation that sees Christ's 2nd coming is the generation He said will see ALL THESE THINGS, meaning the signs He gave His disciples there while upon the Mount of Olives.

Mark 13:35-37
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
KJV

No, I am not making things fit me, but rather offering line upon line that which is given to me from God, in the same way that it has always been.

I wouldn't know about those other teachings, because I don't agree with them.

But, as for you, you are correct in reading the word, but not in understanding. You have not reconciled the fact that "the kingdom of heaven does not come with observation." So, then, when it says "will see all these things", you forget that it does not come with observation and expect to see in the world what the world cannot and will not see.