The folly of Preterism

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ScottA

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LOL. You are delusional. Watch out for the men with the white coats. To reject time and reality around you is to confess you are losing it. You seem to live in some fanciful "mystical metaphysical gobbledegook" Gnostic bubble.
Name calling :( Wrong again.

He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
 

rwb

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When one passes "from death to life"--which part is of this world and which is part is of God?

But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Why do you not read the context of Paul's letter to the Galatians? When you do you will find Paul admonishing the Galatians for desiring to turn again to the works of the Law after having been instructed of Christ. The Law was to have been until Christ came, the Law was the tutor teaching them of their need for Christ, and returning to the Law would show them to again be as children. Christ had redeemed them that were under the Law, that they might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 3:1-3 (KJV) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:10-12 (KJV)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:13-14 (KJV) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:17-19 (KJV) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:20-26 (KJV) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The foolish Galatians desired to return to the ceremonial laws, observing Jewish ritual the Law required before Christ came and fulfilled all the requirements of the Old system, establishing the New Covenant by His atoning blood on the cross and defeating death by His resurrection. Paul likens them to "weak and beggarly elements".

Daysi.e., in the first instance and especially, the Jewish sabbaths; but other fasts or festivals which occupied a single day may be included.

Months.—The description mounts in an ascending scale—days, months, seasons, years. The "months," however, mean really "the first day of the month," the "new moon." (See Le 23:24; Nu 28:11; Ps 81:3.)

Times.Seasons: such as the Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles.

Years.—Such as the sabbatical year and the year of jubilee. Paul is giving a list which is intended to be exhaustive of all Jewish observances.

Paul says returning to the Law is to "turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage" after having been set free of bondage to the Law of which obedience could never save but would bring them again into bondage and death.

Galatians 4:9-10 (KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Paul is under no delusion, believing time is an allusion! Time was given by God to mankind during creation, never intending that time for this earth would endure forever. Just as TIME given the earth had a beginning, so too when the seventh angel begins to sound "there should be time no longer."
 

rwb

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LOL. You are delusional. Watch out for the men with the white coats. To reject time and reality around you is to confess you are losing it. You seem to live in some fanciful "mystical metaphysical gobbledegook" Gnostic bubble.

Delusional indeed!
 

ScottA

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Why do you not read the context of Paul's letter to the Galatians? When you do you will find Paul admonishing the Galatians for desiring to turn again to the works of the Law after having been instructed of Christ. The Law was to have been until Christ came, the Law was the tutor teaching them of their need for Christ, and returning to the Law would show them to again be as children. Christ had redeemed them that were under the Law, that they might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 3:1-3 (KJV) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:10-12 (KJV)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:13-14 (KJV) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:17-19 (KJV) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:20-26 (KJV) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The foolish Galatians desired to return to the ceremonial laws, observing Jewish ritual the Law required before Christ came and fulfilled all the requirements of the Old system, establishing the New Covenant by His atoning blood on the cross and defeating death by His resurrection. Paul likens them to "weak and beggarly elements".

Daysi.e., in the first instance and especially, the Jewish sabbaths; but other fasts or festivals which occupied a single day may be included.

Months.—The description mounts in an ascending scale—days, months, seasons, years. The "months," however, mean really "the first day of the month," the "new moon." (See Le 23:24; Nu 28:11; Ps 81:3.)

Times.Seasons: such as the Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles.

Years.—Such as the sabbatical year and the year of jubilee. Paul is giving a list which is intended to be exhaustive of all Jewish observances.

Paul says returning to the Law is to "turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage" after having been set free of bondage to the Law of which obedience could never save but would bring them again into bondage and death.

Galatians 4:9-10 (KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Paul is under no delusion, believing time is an allusion! Time was given by God to mankind during creation, never intending that time for this earth would endure forever. Just as TIME given the earth had a beginning, so too when the seventh angel begins to sound "there should be time no longer."
Context is only key if it is.

Yes, there is usually a worldly context, but that context is not always the only context. Not even. The Psalms of David for example, were written regarding the worldly context of David's own life--but...parts were also prophetic and not of that original context at all. Likewise many mysteries of God are simply foreshadowed in the original context, but are given also that those who have an ear might hear what the Spirit says. After all, the words are spirit.

Likewise, Paul in the original context of the early church found the need to tell certain unruly women to "be silent in church." That was the original context. But that is not the context which qualified such a thing to be included in the eternal word of God. To the contrary, the reason it is also a word made eternal in that much greater context, is not regarding that original context at all--but regards the greater context of the church being the Bride of Christ (as if women) who should be silent that the Holy Spirit should speak according to the means by which Jesus said He would build His church, saying, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

It is by that same Spirit that I have spoken to you regarding the times of this world as opposed to the events of God.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I've been perfectly clear.
No, you have not. Maybe to yourself, but not to anyone else.

People apparently don't even know what a Preterist is.
You apparently don't. You deny the future bodily coming of Jesus Christ at which time all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected and all of His people will be gathered to Him, do you not? It seems clear that you do, so that makes you a Preterist whether you like it or not. Maybe not a typical one that obsesses about 70 AD, but still a Preterist nonetheless.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Well, it's been fun. I've never seen so much abundance of scholarship and weeping and gnashing of teeth over one little word of prophecy, that is as a great and high rock, that cannot be gotten around, nor pounded to the ground by false prophecy of Scripture.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

If it's the Lord's eternal kingdom on earth that expires, then His eternal kingdom is not so eternal, but is dependent on being on earth.

If it's His physical kingdom that expires, then His physical kingdom is only for a thousand years, before the earth itself passes away.

Most Christians, like me, would probably like to see it go on longer, but some can't stand it going on at all.

Amillennialism is weird like that.
No, what's weird (insane, really) is the idea of Christ ever being King over a temporary kingdom. It doesn't get any more weird (insane) than that.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The first man to rise from the dead, not the first resurrection, that all them who have part in are blessed.
Says you, but, again, the only other place in scripture where the Greek words protos (first) and anastasis (resurrection) are found together are in Acts 26:23 which refers to Christ's resurrection as being the first resurrection. And we know His was the first resurrection in the sense that it was the first unto bodily immortality. Next in order are the dead in Christ at His second coming (1 Cor 15:22-23). That cannot be the first resurrection, as you believe, since Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection.

Jesus is the only one that had part in His own resurrection from the dead.

In any case, His kingdom reign on earth will expire after a thousand years. Saying it is His eternal kingdom today makes it expire at some time in the future.
His kingdom will never expire. You have to resort to lies about what we believe since you can't refute what we believe with scripture.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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You teach the finality of His eternal reign and everlasting kingdom at His return. Scripture prophecies the expiration of His physical reign on earth, a thousand years after His return.


You guys really do love to copy and paste. I really don't think you care if anyone actually wades through all this oft repeated stuff. I know I don't.
You would actually learn something if you read his posts, but you clearly aren't interested in learning anything. You are clearly comfortable with believing the falsehood that you currently believe in.
 
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ScottA

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No, you have not. Maybe to yourself, but not to anyone else.


You apparently don't. You deny the future bodily coming of Jesus Christ at which time all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected and all of His people will be gathered to Him, do you not? It seems clear that you do, so that makes you a Preterist whether you like it or not. Maybe not a typical one that obsesses about 70 AD, but still a Preterist nonetheless.

Well, that not only makes you a name caller but a liar and an accuser.

Preterist is from the Latin word, "praeter", which is a prefix denoting that something is 'past' or 'beyond'.

That is not at all what I have said. But in accusing me, you yourself by implication come dangerously close to denying the biblical truth that Jesus was slain "before" the foundation of the world. To the contrary, I have explained it.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Well, that not only makes you a name caller but a liar and an accuser.

Preterist is from the Latin word, "praeter", which is a prefix denoting that something is 'past' or 'beyond'.

That is not at all what I have said. But in accusing me, you yourself by implication come dangerously close to denying the biblical truth that Jesus was slain "before" the foundation of the world. To the contrary, I have explained it.
Your rhetoric doesn't phase me at all. I will not take back anything I said. Everyone here can see that you deny the future bodily coming of Jesus Christ and the future mass bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ. I don't care what label that YOU want to put on that. I call it Preterist.
 
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ScottA

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Your rhetoric doesn't phase me at all. I will not take back anything I said. Everyone here can see that you deny the future bodily coming of Jesus Christ and the future mass bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ. I don't care what label that YOU want to put on that. I call it Preterist.
Wrong is wrong...no matter what you call it.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

WPM

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That is not at all what I have said. But in accusing me, you yourself by implication come dangerously close to denying the biblical truth that Jesus was slain "before" the foundation of the world.

You talk such nonsense. Who writes your script?
 
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WPM

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The Symbol Man's Bible and New Definitions Dictionary need no answering. Just dismissal out of hand.

You have no answer to Amil. That is why you run with your tail between your legs with your toys on your arm from every discussion you engage in with Amils when your beliefs are exposed.
 
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Always Believing

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I didn't copy and paste that. I wrote it for you.
When I write something again, I never get it exactly word for word, dot for dot, and color for color. So, you must instead be doing dictation from transcripts a half dozen times.

In any case, I don't continue answering ready-made mantras.
 

WPM

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When I write something again, I never get it exactly word for word, dot for dot, and color for color. So, you must instead be doing dictation from transcripts a half dozen times.

In any case, I don't continue answering ready-made mantras.

Everyone knows why you avoid. You have no biblical answers. Your posts are bereft of Scripture. You can justify your avoidance all you want but the readers can see for themselves.
 

Always Believing

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No, what's weird (insane, really) is the idea of Christ ever being King over a temporary kingdom. It doesn't get any more weird (insane) than that.
His kingdom of Israel was temporary.

And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.

The problem is people mocking what they know nothing about, because all they want to know is their own imagination.