The folly of Preterism

[WPM]

Do you see yourself as meek?

Of course! I am a child of God!

 

[Waiting on him]

Simple and direct. Not that it matters but I agree. Although… “Jesus has returned in the flesh” makes me ask, why then, the conversation of “where is the fruit”? Where is the fruit anywhere today?

I sometimes hear his voice.

 

[Waiting on him]

Simple and direct. Not that it matters but I agree. Although… “Jesus has returned in the flesh” makes me ask, why then, the conversation of “where is the fruit”? Where is the fruit anywhere today?

When I read @MatthewG i typically hear it. A Spirit of meekness that is.. it appears to be at peace.

 

[WPM]

I would suggest we embrace the truth revealed to us in the Bible. That is that Christ has already come in the flesh! And the promise He made before He departed from this world is that He would send the Holy Spirit to be in believers always. His Spirit dwelling within believers is not evidence that Christ has returned, but proof that Christ keeps His promises.

Amen bro!

 

[Waiting on him]

I would suggest we embrace the truth revealed to us in the Bible. That is that Christ has already come in the flesh! And the promise He made before He departed from this world is that He would send the Holy Spirit to be in believers always. His Spirit dwelling within believers is not evidence that Christ has returned, but proof that Christ keeps His promises.

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Would you say this also is yet future?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

His kingdom of Israel was temporary.

We are talking about Jesus Christ here. Where does scripture teach that He would ever have a temporary kingdom? Nowhere. Isaiah 9:6-7 makes it clear that His kingdom is eternal. And scripture never teaches that He would have 2 kingdoms, as you falsely believe, either.

And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.

The problem is people mocking what they know nothing about, because all they want to know is their own imagination.

That describes you perfectly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrong is wrong...no matter what you call it.

I'm fine with that word. Your doctrine is all wrong.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What was your point in saying this?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Jesus is the first man to rise from the dead.

Right, and the context is that He was the first to be resurrected from the dead unto bodily immortality. Obviously, other people, like Lazarus, were resurrected before him, but not unto bodily immortality.

As I say, you change the plain meaning of things to make them your own doctrine, including normal sense of grammar and sentence structure.

Only a false translator would say that He should be the first resurrection from the dead.

He was the first to be resurrected from the dead. What is false about that? Nothing. His resurrection was the first resurrection unto bodily immortality. Paul indicated that in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 as well.

First man resurrected, not the first resurrection.

LOL. His resurrection was the first resurrection (unto bodily immortality), as scripture teaches. You know that's true, but here you are trying to get around that with semantics. We can all see through that.

If you think you have already been resurrected, before He comes again, then you will not be resurrected when He does come again.

I haven't died yet, so how can I think I've already been resurrected? But, I have had part in His resurrection spiritually which is what having part in the first resurrection is about.

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Now I see the full scope of your delusion. You actually think you have already taken part in the first resurrection of the dead in Christ, and are now reigning and ruling with Him over all nations with a rod of iron.

You really do think in your own vain imagination, that you are currently ruling with Christ in His Millennium over the earth.

And you just keep on expanding that thousand years for however long you want, since you are one of them reigning over the earth.

Not His everlasting kingdom, as you teach. His Millennium kingdom will after a thousand years has expired.

And the kingdom you think you are resurrected to reign in now, will expire with the grave.

No, the kingdom I'm in now, which is Christ's kingdom, will last forever. He will hand it over to the Father when He comes, as Paul taught in 1 Cor 15:22-24. You clearly have no understanding of these things whatsoever.

 

[Waiting on him]

You do!

Indeed, from the first book of acts too the last verse of revelation is a confirmation that Jesus had returned in their flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

And they became the righteousness of God!

 

[Waiting on him]

adjective
adjective: meek; comparative adjective: meeker; superlative adjective: meekest

1. quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.

 

[WPM]

Indeed, from the first book of acts too the last verse of revelation is a confirmation that Jesus had returned in their flesh.

What about the gospels? Yes, He did come physically 2000 years, and will return physically again at His second coming.

 

[rwb]

That is a start--good!

So then, since Jesus has "already" come in the flesh, that would mean that Christ standing at the door and knocking and coming in to those who open the door...is in fact His coming "again." Which is confirmed by the saying, "it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me."

But--sorry for butting in--please continue with @Waiting on him!

Christ came in the flesh, and when He comes the second He will again come in the flesh as He was seen leaving.

Acts 1:7-11 (KJV) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Christ is speaking to a church that has turned lukewarm, they have not love or zeal for Him. They are in danger of being spewed out if they do not repent. The way we repent is hearing what the Spirit says. It is only through the power of His Spirit in us that we have ears to hear His voice. If we fail to hear Him it is because we have not His Spirit in us, which without we have not Christ in us.

Revelation 3:20-22 (KJV) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Do you think Christ physically lives within man, knocks on a physical door, sups at a physical table? I wouldn't be surprised to hear you do believe that, but that too would be delusional folly. It is through His Spirit that Christ both speaks and lives within believers. Without the Spirit man cannot hear, nor can they enjoy fellowship with Christ.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 2:11 (KJV) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

 

[rwb]

Okay, wasn’t this what the New Testament writers were confirming in the epistles, that the spirit of God was in fact in them?

If we have not His Spirit in us, we are none of His! What's your point?

 

[rwb]

Well, this is the observation I was making with WPM, all of the insults and vitriol, is this evidence of the Spirit Of God?

Since Christ has already come in the flesh, we look for Him to return also in flesh, since that is what the Scripture tells us. Since Scripture is clear that Christ shall return in the flesh, it is folly to argue that He already returned or that He returns again and again and again!

 

[ScottA]

Simple and direct. Not that it matters but I agree. Although… “Jesus has returned in the flesh” makes me ask, why then, the conversation of “where is the fruit”? Where is the fruit anywhere today?

The fruit that now is comes under "My strength is made perfect in weakness"...and the meek do not parade.

Even so, these are just a part of what was to be and now is. The gambit also includes everything for "false preachers" and "strong delusion" to being "lead unto all truth" by the Holy Spirit and the "finish" of the "mystery of God" before "the sounding of the seventh angel."

This is the "as a thief" and "as the days of Noah" reality of Jesus' return "coming at an hour you do not expect."

 

[rwb]

Simple and direct. Not that it matters but I agree. Although… “Jesus has returned in the flesh” makes me ask, why then, the conversation of “where is the fruit”? Where is the fruit anywhere today?

Be sure you understand what is being promoted here. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in men/women of faith is indeed proof Christ came in the flesh (born a man), and kept His promise to send His Spirit after He departed from this earth. That is NOT proof that Jesus has returned in the flesh, as He shall after the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth that there shall be time no longer.

 

[ScottA]

I'm fine with that word. Your doctrine is all wrong.


What was your point in saying this?

This is not the first time warnings have been given in the face of rejection.

 

[WPM]

This is not the first time warnings have been given in the face of rejection.

Who do you think you are - God?

 

[ScottA]

Christ came in the flesh, and when He comes the second He will again come in the flesh as He was seen leaving.

Acts 1:7-11 (KJV) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in coming at an hour you do not expect. as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Christ is speaking to a church that has turned lukewarm, they have not love or zeal for Him. They are in danger of being spewed out if they do not repent. The way we repent is hearing what the Spirit says. It is only through the power of His Spirit in us that we have ears to hear His voice. If we fail to hear Him it is because we have not His Spirit in us, which without we have not Christ in us.

Revelation 3:20-22 (KJV) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Do you think Christ physically lives within man, knocks on a physical door, sups at a physical table? I wouldn't be surprised to hear you do believe that, but that too would be delusional folly. It is through His Spirit that Christ both speaks and lives within believers. Without the Spirit man cannot hear, nor can they enjoy fellowship with Christ.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 2:11 (KJV) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

The "like manner" mentioned in Acts 1:11 -- is it your idea that it means in the manner of the flesh, or of the Spirit? Obviously you believe it to mean in the manner of the flesh, but that is incorrect. He came according to the flesh, but was raised up according to the spirit of God, saying, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit." Before which He gave His body to the church, saying, "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him" and "take, eat, this is My body."

As for Christ living within man--why do you say "physically?" "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit." --If these things that are written are "delusional folly" to you--you are in grave danger! Thus, my warning to some here.

Still, you mock the Spirit, then seem to insist upon it. This is your delusion--not mine.