The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics.

[WPM]

You are cleopatra! I gave SI around 60 verses in just 2 posts! which is just part of what I will write to them if they ask! I have posted far more scriptures than you or them as for covanentee, they left the scriptures to go into JW like reinterpretations.

Not oneof you three like th eword of God as INpsaired and have rewritten it according to the RC agenda popularized in the fourth century.

YOu should recheck your posts and see you have a fixation on teh ECF's instead of Scripture. I have read teh 30 volume ante nicen fathers and other early church history book. And I know the rampant heresies that ran in the seocnd, third and fourth centuries The church was chaotic, dispersed, in hiding for most of the time and were open to the Grecian philosophy onslaught, Gther roman pagan onslaught and with teh vast number of gentiles coming in ,the many false teachers (allegorists) Paul warned about.

Simple fact is you are hung up in the writings of others, while I have spent most of myh time quoiting the Scriptures and then having to listen to you and others tryhing to rationalize that whjat God inspired is not what He meant! The hiding behind there are symbols in the Bible to give you license to to what Peter warned about in 2 Peter 3:16.

all you want is to tell people God actually spoke in a code of code and that they need you and others like you to tell them the truth of the Bible. Which is exactly opposite of what Paul taught.

No one in reading the Scriptures prayefully without som ete4xt of an allegorical heretic would come to eh eschatological understandning you do.


But even worse to deny Jesus is returning to earth in the flesh is what John said is the Spirit of Antichrist.

Dream on! The opposite is the truth. You have no answer to the Scriptures. I have presented multiple scriptures to you that you duck around. That's because they forbid your man-made theology. I have tried to get you to address multiple contradictions in your theology but you respond with ad hominem and avoidance. That is your MO. You have nothing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why are Premils so venomous? Beacuse they have no answer to the truth!

Why not admit: your theology was invented by the heretics? I have presented the evidence. As usual, you avoided the facts. You then turn to ad hominem to support your argument. This is all Premils can do. History is damning on your doctrine. Why was there none of the ECFs teaching it until AD270? Hello!!!

Only if you admit God, Peter, Paul and JOhn are teh heretics! See I get my theology from the bible. If I turned to ad-hominems it is only because YOU left civil conversation so I went to Prov. 20:5.

I will keep my own counsel about wehy I do what I do. You ahve proven yourself to be so wrong about tme so often as to be nauseous!

 

[WPM]

YOu were, I wasn't! I was talkin g Scripture with SI .

JOhn said 1,000 years.

JOhn said the first resurrection is those who had not received th e mark and were beheaded. they live and reign with jesus. You say that teh first resurrection in REv. 20 refers to jesus! So Jesus was beheaded for not taking the mark and Jesus will live and reign with Jesus for this ephemeral time frame (according to you) Sounds ot me like you have 2 Jesus'

Amils rightly consider the intra-Advent period to be an indefinite period. This is last days period running through to the second coming. It is therefore proper to view Revelation 20 the same. The symbolic usage of numbers in Revelation reinforces that. The genre of Revelation and the symbolism of the book lends itself to this type of understanding. You could also apply that same reasoning to the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes? Of course not! It means a short period of time. A thousand years represents a long period of time.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Dream on! The opposite is the truth. You have no answer to the Scriptures. I have presented multiple scriptures to you that you duck around. That's because they forbid your man-made theology. I have tried to get you to address multiple contradictions in your theology but you respond with ad hominem and avoidance. That is your MO. You have nothing.

I gave them and you are simply lying. All you have to do is not be lazy and review all my =answers to SI. You decided to butt in and throw you r verbal assaults against pre-mils. then me and make accusations about me without evidence.

YOu report on the church fathers but to SI whjom I have had a marvellous conversation so far, for they are not acid tongue like you, I have given all teh Scriptures so far- go look there and stop making false accusations. That still is sin.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Amils rightly consider the intra-Advent period to be an indefinite period. This is last days period running through to the second coming. It is therefore proper to view Revelation 20 the same. The symbolic usage of numbers in Revelation reinforces that. The genre of Revelation and the symbolism of the book lends itself to this type of understanding. You could also apply that same reasoning to the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes? Of course not! It means a short period of time. A thousand years represents a long period of time.

As do pre-mols. we know th eintrra advent period to run its course with no time frame posted.

But we know that when Jesus physically returns there is a first resurrection ( the deadof the tribulation period) with those reigning with Jesus for 1,000 years.

 

[WPM]

Only if you admit God, Peter, Paul and JOhn are teh heretics! See I get my theology from the bible. If I turned to ad-hominems it is only because YOU left civil conversation so I went to Prov. 20:5.

I will keep my own counsel about wehy I do what I do. You ahve proven yourself to be so wrong about tme so often as to be nauseous!

For someone who supposedly went or taught in college your grammar is shocking. My 10 years old could spell better. It is frankly hard to believe your boastings. The fact is: the roots of your theology came from the heretics not the Bible. You advocate a non-corroborative doctrine. Amils have multiple Scripture. Amil is built on safer ground. Amil is built upon corroboration. Multiple strong and repeated Scriptures on each tenet of that position proves that doctrine. Let us discuss some of the water-tight support Amil enjoys for its understanding of Rev 20.

Much Scripture proves that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Other Scripture shows the reigning of the dead in Christ now during the intra-Advent period (Revelation 20:4). See also Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, Revelation 6:9-10, 7:9-17, 15:1-3.

Christ appears with His holy angels (Matthew 13:41-43, 49 16:27 24:29-31 25:31-32, Mark 13:25-27, Luke 9:26, Revelation 14:14-20) and the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3, Hebrews 11:8-10, 13-16, 13:14. Revelation 3:11-12, 21:1-4).

There is a general resurrection/judgment (singular) of all mankind at the coming of Christ (Matthew 10:15, 12:36, 16:27, 25:31-46, John 5:21-30, 6:39-44, 54, 10:42, 11:21-27, 12:48, 17:30-32, 24:15, Acts 10:42, 17:30-31, Romans 2:4-8, 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 3:6-8, 11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:5-8, 1 Timothy 5:24, Hebrews 9:27, 10:27, 2 Peter 2:9, 3:7, 1 Peter 4:1-5, 1 John 4:17, and Revelation 19:11, 20:11-15, 22:12).

Satan cast into the Lake of Fire (Isaiah 26:19, II Thessalonians 2:1-9 Revelation 20:10). This occurs before the heaven and earth pass away in Revelation 20.

There is a climactic conflagration (Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15).

Perfection arrives with the age to come (Luke 20:27-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55, 2 Peter 3:3-13 Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Peter 4:3-7, Hebrews 1:10-12 and Revelation 20:11-15, 21:1-5).

The age to come possesses no mortals. The wicked are destroyed at His appearing (2 Samuel 22:9, Job 41:20-21, Psalm 18:7-8, 37:9-11, 50:1-6, 68:1-3, 97:3-5, Isaiah 11:4-5, 13:9, 30:33, 66:15-17, Joel 2:1-3, 2:10-11, Nahum 1:1, 5-6, Malachi 4:1, Luke 17:26-30, 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 13:8-13, 15:50-55, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3, II Thessalonians 1:4-10, Revelation 16:15-21, 19:11-18, Revelation 21-22).

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed.

This is a water-tight argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

 

[WPM]

As do pre-mols. we know th eintrra advent period to run its course with no time frame posted.

But we know that when Jesus physically returns there is a first resurrection ( the deadof the tribulation period) with those reigning with Jesus for 1,000 years.

I do not know what you're trying to say. Your grammar is terrible.

 

[WPM]

I gave them and you are simply lying. All you have to do is not be lazy and review all my =answers to SI. You decided to butt in and throw you r verbal assaults against pre-mils. then me and make accusations about me without evidence.

YOu report on the church fathers but to SI whjom I have had a marvellous conversation so far, for they are not acid tongue like you, I have given all teh Scriptures so far- go look there and stop making false accusations. That still is sin.

How about giving all your corroboration for your opinion of Revelation 20.

The day of salvation has been ongoing since the Fall (Isaiah 49:8 and 2 Corinthians 6:2). It is the “acceptable time” or “acceptable year” (Isaiah 49:8, 61:2, Luke 4:19) to be saved. “Today” is an age of grace the only day to respond to His voice (Hebrews 3:7-8, 4:7). There is no other day of hope after this day for salvation.

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4. He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13, 28:19-20 and Act 3:19-21).

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5) all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is no 3rd temple mention in Scripture. That is a pretrib invention you have bought into.

One cannot help but see the drastic move away from the physical to the spiritual, from the shadow to the substance, from the imperfect to the true, from the temporal to the eternal, from the earthly to the heavenly under the new covenant. The physical temple is replaced with a spiritual temple, multiple animal sin offerings are replaced by one final sacrifice for sin. Christ and all the NT writers taught the superseding of the old abolished system with the new eternal system. Basically, we move from the type to the anti-type, from the anticipated to the realized, from the inadequate to the true.

After the tearing of the veil, the earthly temple loses its significance and relevance. It becomes a symbol of rebellion and the focus of God’s distain.

Daniel 9:26 says: “the people of the prince that shall come (speaking of the Roman soldiers) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

In Daniel 9:27 after predicting that the old covenant would be removed, the angel predicted that God would destroy the temple (the centre-point of the sacrifices) forever. We learn: “for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

The consummation is the one final future Coming of Christ.

We see the fulfilment of this in Christ’s words in Matthew 23:37-39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord (the consummation, as Daniel predicted).”

Christ continues (to remove any ambiguity as to what He was referring to) in Matthew 24:1-2, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

This couldn’t be clearer.

What was going to replace the old physical Jewish building in Jerusalem was not something that was restricted to one race but a global spiritual temple that embraced all nations equally.

In John 4:19-24 we see Christ addressing this subject, in response to a statement made by the woman at the well. The woman said to Christ, “Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

Christ responded, “Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

What Christ was teaching here was that a new economy was being introduced through His earthly ministry that would forever replace the old. No longer would the worship of the living God be restricted to a natural geographical land-mass or be centered upon a physical temporal brick building built with hands in earthly Jerusalem, rather, it would now be concentrated in a spiritual eternal temple (the redeemed Church) which is spiritual located within the heavenly New Jerusalem. That temple would not be restricted to one physical nation but would be situated throughout all the nations of the world.

Jerusalem would no longer be the center of divine worship on this earth. Geographical locality becomes irrelevant in worshipping God. One location would be as good as another to worship God. In saying this, Jesus was internationalizing divine worship and the community of Christ.

After Calvary, the temple becomes synonymous throughout the New Testament with (1) Christ, (2) the body of Christ, and (3) the temple in heaven.

Since Christ, the worship of God was no longer restricted to a physical earthly building but rather relocated to an invisible spiritual temple called the Church. The Old Testament tabernacle, as important and powerful as it was, became a deficient temporal type of the more perfect spiritual fulfilment in Christ and in His Church. This teaching about the spiritual manifestation of the temple was clearly an anathema to the unbelieving Jew and was regarded as complete heresy.

The house referred to here is a spiritual house and relates to the Lord Jesus Christ and the building of His spiritual body – the Church. Any Jew interpreting this Old Testament text literally would have mistakenly assumed that the hope for the nations in the last days would arise in the form of the physical temporal earthly temple in Jerusalem rather than a new spiritual temple.

Jesus said to the Jews in John 2:18-21, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

The Jews at the time of Christ, being ignorant and earthly minded, interpreted this statement to mean: He was claiming to destroy and rebuild the physical Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. The reading records, “Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?”

However, the next verse exposed their blindness, saying, “But he spake of the temple of his body” (v 21).

Christ spiritualises the temple here. None could surely dispute this. There were 2 different mind-sets in this picture. Christ’s heavenly mind-set presenting the introduction of the new covenant in the form of Himself and the Jews carnal earthly mind-set hankering towards an old inadequate system.

Christ also declared during His ministry, whilst standing in the actual temple, “I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple” (Matthew 12:6). However, the Jews in the main had No comprehension of that glorious statement. To this spiritual Temple would the nations finally find mercy, thus, fulfilling perfectly what the old temple couldn’t. And thus, through Himself (the living Temple), fulfilling Isaiah 2:2 that “all nations shall flow unto it.”

Granted, the temple was central to the Jewish faith. For anyone to intimate in any way that it would be destroyed was viewed as nothing short of blasphemy. However, Christ was redirecting their eyes from the old temporal building – which was an imperfect shadow and type of Himself – and pointing them towards the new all-sufficient eternal temple – in the form of His person. Through His impending death, the temporal temple and its ceremonies would be done away with.

This was a major offence to the naturalistic earthly mind-set of the religious Jews. This was teaching they tried to use as a weapon to try and discredit Christ in Mark 14:58, saying, “We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.”

The new economy brought a seismic change in the form, location and focus of divine worship. It didn’t just bring an abolition of the old temple and its redundant sacrifices and priests, it brought a renunciation of them. Time after time the concept of the continuation of a physical temple is renounced; the reason being, it was rendered useless by the introduction of the new covenant.

Long response, I disagree

As I stated I believe Isaiah 66:1-4 shows a future temple being built and animal sacrifice renewed, with 2 Thessalonians 2:11 in the delusion being sent by God supporting the claim

There was no need to explain the 2nd temple, I don't believe a 3rd temple with renewed animal sacrifice will be blessed by God, it's an abomination

Do the Jews look forward to building a 3rd temple "Absolutely" it's a driving force in all branches Judaism

 

[Truth7t7]

I refuted all your false Pretrib claims in 4 detailed posts. You have no viable answer to any of them. They forbid this teaching.

You haven't refuted a thing, you are running from a direct response on the bold red below, with mumbo jumbo diversion,

5th Response And Still Not Answering My Claim, "Once Again In Bold Red"

Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD causes those to flee, and this causes Matthew 24:21 in the Great Tribulation that Paul believes was fulfilled in 66-70AD?

Paul you can't have a 66-70AD AOD and Great Tribulation, with Jesus returning immediately after a tribulation in 66-70AD when Matthew 24:29-30 is "Future" in the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the clouds of heaven being a "Future Event" unfulfilled?

"This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled"

Future Events Unfulfilled!

1.) Paul Matthew 24:15 is Daniel's Abomination of Desolation

2.) Paul Matthew 24:21 is the Great Tribulation

3.) Paul Matthew 24:29-30 Is the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven

They Shall See, Not You Shall See, A Future Generation That Will Witness The Literal, Visible, Second Coming

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Paul the generation below is a "Future" generation that will be eye witnesses of (1. Daniel's AOD), the (2. Great Tribulation) and the literal, visible (3. Second Coming) of Jesus in the clouds of heaven, these events are future unfulfilled

Matthew 24:32-34KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[Truth7t7]

Dispensatanism is wrong. Your theology is grossly in error.

Same applies to your preterist belief in 66-70AD fulfillment of (Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD) and (Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation) that are future events unfulfilled

Your (Theology/Eschatology) Is Grossly In Error

 

[WPM]

Long response, I disagree

As I stated I believe Isaiah 66:1-4 shows a future temple being built and animal sacrifice renewed, with 2 Thessalonians 2:11 in the delusion being sent by God supporting the claim

There was no need to explain the 2nd temple, I don't believe a 3rd temple with renewed animal sacrifice will be blessed by God, it's an abomination

Do the Jews look forward to building a 3rd temple "Absolutely" it's a driving force in all branches Judaism

No. it is desolate till the coming of Christ. I showed you the Scriptures. Please reread the NT evidence i presented. You are again making the same mistake Pretribbers make - explaining away the NT with your mistaken opinion of the OT.

 

[WPM]

Same applies to your preterist belief in 66-70AD fulfillment of (Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD) and (Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation) that are future events unfulfilled

Your (Theology/Eschatology) Is Grossly In Error

I was not even talking to you. Why would you respond like that? I told you i am not Preterist. I am an Amil Idealist. Please stop misrepresenting.

 

[farouk]

Ok thank you I’ll have to do some deeper research myself. The church fathers be much big. The church fathers and pre tribulation I will search

Hi @Prim I think it's significant that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the coming of the Lord Jesus is definitely linked to the church.

 

[WPM]

You haven't refuted a thing, you are running from a direct response on the bold red below, with mumbo jumbo diversion,

5th Response And Still Not Answering My Claim, "Once Again In Bold Red"

Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD causes those to flee, and this causes Matthew 24:21 in the Great Tribulation that Paul believes was fulfilled in 66-70AD?

Paul you can't have a 66-70AD AOD and Great Tribulation, with Jesus returning immediately after a tribulation in 66-70AD when Matthew 24:29-30 is "Future" in the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the clouds of heaven being a "Future Event" unfulfilled?

"This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled"

Future Events Unfulfilled!

1.) Paul Matthew 24:15 is Daniel's Abomination of Desolation

2.) Paul Matthew 24:21 is the Great Tribulation

3.) Paul Matthew 24:29-30 Is the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven

They Shall See, Not You Shall See, A Future Generation That Will Witness The Literal, Visible, Second Coming

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Paul the generation below is a "Future" generation that will be eye witnesses of (1. Daniel's AOD), the (2. Great Tribulation) and the literal, visible (3. Second Coming) of Jesus in the clouds of heaven, these events are future unfulfilled

Matthew 24:32-34KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

2 different tribs. One was AD70. The other is future. Read what I wrote please. I am starting to think you are just skimming it.

 

[farouk]

Long response, I disagree

As I stated I believe Isaiah 66:1-4 shows a future temple being built and animal sacrifice renewed, with 2 Thessalonians 2:11 in the delusion being sent by God supporting the claim

There was no need to explain the 2nd temple, I don't believe a 3rd temple with renewed animal sacrifice will be blessed by God, it's an abomination

Do the Jews look forward to building a 3rd temple "Absolutely" it's a driving force in all branches Judaism

I think sometimes Ezekiel is also quoted to similar effect about reestablished animal sacrifices (of a memorial nature).

 

[Truth7t7]

No. it is desolate till the coming of Christ. I showed you the Scriptures. Please reread the NT evidence i presented. You are again making the same mistake Pretribbers make - explaining away the NT with your mistaken opinion of the OT.

Reformed Eschatology in 66-70AD Preterist fulfillment is a lie,, no different than a pre-trib rapture or Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a lie

Perhaps your views are aligned with the Jehovahs Witnesses, preterist a fact

You were clearly shown Daniel 9:27 and how the "He" would be present on earth to the "Consummation" or Ultimate End

Your claim that the desolation started in 70AD and continued to this day is laughable, just like dispensationalisms claim of a 70th floating week of Daniel for 2,000 years and waiting

The bad guy below that causes Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 will be present on earth to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Scripture clearly teaches that the event is future, and didnt take place in 66-70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterism claims

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 

[farouk]

Reformed Eschatology in 66-70AD Preterist fulfillment is a lie,, no different than a pre-trib rapture or Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a lie

Perhaps your views are aligned with the Jehovahs Witnesses, preterist a fact

You were clearly shown Daniel 9:27 and how the "He" would be present on earth to the "Consummation" or Ultimate End

Your claim that the desolation started in 70AD and continued to this day is laughable, just like dispensationalisms claim of a 70th floating week of Daniel for 2,000 years and waiting

The bad guy below that causes Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 will be present on earth to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Scripture clearly teaches that the event is future, and didnt take place in 66-70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterism claims

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Hi @Truth7t7 I wouldn't use the word lie about Premil....

It seems significant to me that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the coming of the Lord Jesus is specifically linked with the church..........

 

[Truth7t7]

I was not even talking to you. Why would you respond like that? I told you i am not Preterist. I am an Amil Idealist. Please stop misrepresenting.

Of course your "Partial Preterist" in your eschatology, you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD and Matthew 25:21 The Great Tribulation has been fulfilled in the Olivet discourse

You believe Matthew 24:29-30 is future in the second coming

Your eschatology is 100% "Partial Preterist"

If you believed Matthew 24:29-30 in the second coming was fulfilled you would be "Full Preterist" a heretical belief in my opinion

I'm futurist on all three mentioned above, just as scripture teaches "Future Unfulfilled"

I'm not mistaken in my explantation, your ignorant of the facts surrounding "Preterism"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi @Truth7t7 I wouldn't use the word lie about Premil....

It seems significant to me that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the coming of the Lord Jesus is specifically linked with the church..........

I'm not attacking any person, I'm stating what I believe is fact

Preterist teach on Daniel's AOD and the Great Tribulation being fulfilled, it's lie because they are future events unfulfilled

Jehovahs Witnesses and 7th Day Adventust teach "Soul Sleep" its a lie found no place in scripture

Pre-Millennialust teach a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's a lie found no place in scripture

Dispensationalism teaches of a pre-trib rapture, it's also a lie found no place in scripture

Catholicism teaches transubstantion in the bread and wine actually turning into the body and blood of Jesus, it's a lie, it's still bread and wine after the prayer

See there, truth not directed at any individual or person in attack