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Featured The Genesis Creation Account vs. Computer Simulation

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Base12, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    As a Mechanical Engineer, I tend to view the Genesis Creation Account through the lens of One who is creating a 3D CAD Model first and physical creation second.

    In other words, the Genesis Creation Account tells the story of One who is creating a *blueprint* of a 3D Virtual World, and *not* the actual manufactured environment itself.

    Physical construction, i.e. 3D Printing, would come much later.

    Scientists are just now beginning to recognize that we may in fact be living in a type of 'Computer Simulation' not unlike a game of Sims. News headlines and video talks are popping up everywhere regarding this subject.

    With this is mind, I will be presenting this viewpoint here for reference in a series of posts.

    Anyone who is familiar with 3D Modeling will recognize many of the concepts right away.

    In fact, with all of the CAD Libraries and Software available nowadays, the idea of creating an Earth like world in six days, complete with Plants, Sea Life, Animals and People, would hardly pose a challenge. Building said world however, is a different story.

    Keep this in mind as we explore this subject.
     
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  2. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    You mean like a holodeck on a Star Trek series? That when Jesus comes as He is the door in coming to God the Father in Heaven, is our way out of this "holodeck" which said holodeck has been tainted by a virus ( sin ) and the safety is off, meaning we can die in it? Not sure if that was the analogy you were going for, but I kind of see that. All that was created.. our reality as God did so outside of this reality because He is not confined by our reality since He created it. So eventually, the firstfruits will be living with God the Father beyond the created reality thanks to Jesus Christ, the Lord whereas those unrepentant saints left behind would be stuck forever on the holodeck as vessels unto dishonor in His House.
    I doubt I'll be seeing a starship when I leave this reality, but I shall see God the Father face to face as I shall be able to see Jesus, God be willing.
     
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  3. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    This will be a 'verse by verse' study using the King James Version of the Bible, beginning of course with Genesis 1:1...

    Genesis 1:1
    "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"


    Many modern translations use the word 'Heavens' plural instead of the singular 'Heaven' as the KJV renders it. The use of the plural Heavens is very unfortunate as it creates many contradictions within the context of the Creation Account and throwing the reader off completely.

    This is one of the biggest Keys that is lost on so many that use translations such as the NIV. The Genesis Creation Account is all about God creating the Three Heavens ONE AT A TIME and not all at once as often assumed in Genesis 1:1.

    Genesis 1:1 describes God creating the First Heaven. This would be the Heaven where God dwells. Note that God dwells in the First Heaven and not the Third Heaven as is often taught.

    The rest of the Creation Account is all about God creating the other two Heavens (Macrocosm/Microcosm). I will talk about this in a later post.

    Since God only created only one of the Three Heavens, naturally Earth is formless and void... in the most literal sense imaginable. In other words, our Universe doesn't even exist at this point!

    Earth is more or less just a 'Concept' at this point. Engineers would call this a 'Napkin Sketch'.

    As a side note, we can forget about the Gap Theory as it does not fit at all with any of this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  4. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Good post! I would only add one thing...

    Imagine that the Safety Switch you mentioned made everything in the Holodeck *real* in the sense that the characters inside are now Living Beings. Sin and Death are now introduced with Jesus being the only way out of the Prison.

    This 'turning off' of the Safety Switch is what the Forbidden Fruit is all about.
     
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  5. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    I take the first verse as the topic and the following verses all the way to Genesis 2:3 on how God did that.

    The contention I have is that if you say He created the Heaven where He dwells in that first verse, then how can that be when the earth was not formed yet in spite of you claiming God created "Heaven" as in where He dwells.

    The first day, God created light to assign the day with evening and morning that first day. The second day was when God started the formation of the earth by creating a water planet with an upper atmosphere. The third day land was created with plants bearing fruits and seeds. It was Day 2 when the earth was started to be created and day 3 when that earth was fully formed where day one it had not existed at all.

    Then day four was when God created the heavens with all of their celestial host to give light to the earth that day which means He filled in the gap from the created sources of those lights in the heaven to shine on the earth that day.

    So that is how I apply Genesis 1:1 to mean as the following verses was just God explaining how He did it in verse 1.
     
  6. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Since sin separated us from God and thus people lives are being lost in the "holodeck", Jesus being the door in getting back to God and thus off of that holodeck environment, to live with God forever is certainly an analogy I can understand for why we have Jesus Christ to thank and to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name too..
     
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  7. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Good question.

    Since we are comparing Genesis to Computer Aided Design (CAD), the very first Heaven created would be the Virtual Environment from which One would begin creating the 3D Model (Our Universe). This Virtual Environment would exist outside of Space and Time.

    An example of a Virtual Environment can be seen in the Open Source 3D Modeler called Blender...

    Blender (software) - Wikipedia

    The One using the software would be God. The GUI would be the First Heaven from which the Designer would operate in. The Blender Software Code would be the Word of God.

    Earth at this point would be formless and void because Earth only exists as an 'idea' in the Artists head. It hasn't been 'modeled' yet.
     
  8. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Next verse please...

    Genesis 1:2
    "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"


    As mentioned earlier, Earth has no form as of yet and is void. This should be regarded in the most literal sense imaginable. Earth is merely a 'Napkin Sketch' in the Mind of God. Thus, in order to model Earth, a Universe must be created first.

    My favorite 3D Modeler is called SolidWorks. In order for me to create a 3D Universe in SolidWorks, I must first select a 'Plane' and draw a Sketch on it. A Plane is simply a Two Dimensional 'Surface' on which to draw on...

    [​IMG]

    That brings us to the word 'Waters'...

    The Waters in this context is *not* Earth's oceans, but rather it is a description of a Dimensional Plane. There are many names for said Plane...
    • Abyss
    • Underworld
    • Pit
    • Chaos
    • Lower Dimensions
    Another word would be 'Scroll'...

    Revelation 6:14
    "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places"


    Science would call that Dimensional Plane a 'Membrane' or 'Brane' for short. The Bible even tells us that these dimensions can be 'curled up' like a Scroll in agreement with the latest M-Theories.

    Now that we have a Dimensional Plane acting as a canvas for a painting, God in a sense begins to 'Sketch' His Masterpiece by hovering over it and vibrating the Chaos into a living soup of open and closed Strings (see String Theory).

    The Occult World would call this, Order ab Chao. God begins to bring Order or ‘Light’ out of the Chaos.
     
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  9. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Next verse please...

    Genesis 1:3
    "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light"


    The Bible is like a giant puzzle that has to be put together as a whole. The 'Light' cannot be assumed to be whatever we think it 'could' mean.

    Therefore, we must search the Scriptures as to what this Light is...

    John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"


    See how the verse starts out the same as Genesis 1:1? John is revealing to us what that Light was.

    The Light was the Word of God. What is that? Jesus is the Word! And that Word was eventually made flesh...

    John 1:14
    "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth"


    Another Witness...

    John 9:5
    "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world"


    Now in the world of CAD, the Light would be the 'intelligence' added to the Sketch. Things like Constraints, Dimensions, Defined Shapes and so on. I suppose the Sketch themselves could be regarded as the Light as well. All of this information serves as the 'Frame' or 'Skeleton' to which we build the rest of the Model on.

    We find a description of this here...

    Hebrews 11:3
    "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear"


    In the world of Quantum Physics, the Word of God would be the theoretical 'Strings' in String Theory.
     
  10. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    I know that an analogy may not exactly represent the reality of what we are living, and so we have to remember that we are trying to find a generic somewhat poor representation of what we see as our reality in the scripture to our basic understanding of what God has enable us to receive. I keep in mind that we prophesy in part and know in part and so when it comes to an analogy of sort, some misrepresentation of the truth may be presented.

    I see God and where He lives at, "Heaven", as always existing and never created, unlike the Starship that was created so the crew can program their holodeck programs on the holodeck.
    When the heavens were created, I believe that is referring to the upper atmosphere of the earth and space beyond as the second heaven.

    The third Heaven is where God dwells and I believe that exists outside the created realm of the "holodeck program" as in our present day reality. When I step off of this plane of existence into Heaven where God dwells, Jesus Who will make a new heaven and a new earth in the near future, that will not be including the third Heaven where God dwells because there is nothing wrong with where God dwells. Granted, at the pre great tribulation rapture event, Satan and his angels that accuses the brethren day and night, will be kicked out for good for the celebration of the Lamb's Supper.
     
  11. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad you brought this up. I want to share my thoughts on this.

    I will be back soon to comment. Cheers!
     
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  12. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    As far as applying Genesis 1:2 goes, I can see that analogy of the water in being seen as that plane of existence. I do not necessarily agree with the other applications of such planes nor do I consider it as chaos in regards to Genesis 1:2. It's just is. If we were to liken what God was doing with the water as an analogy towards clay, that might suffice as an analogy.
     
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  13. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    God be willing, our conversation shall continue.
     
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  14. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Enow brought up a very important topic and that is the Three Heavens. My views on the Three Heavens reflect what I've read in various verses throughout Scripture, as opposed to what the Church generally tells folks to believe. If anyone disagrees with what I write, it's OK as this will be quite different than what you are used to hearing. I'm all ears if someone wishes to debate against it.

    The general consensus is that the Three Heavens are:

    1) Earth's Atmosphere
    2) Outer Space
    3) Where God dwells


    I have asked Christians to show me in the Word of God which verse or verses exactly teaches this, to no avail. That is because there are no verses that teach this. It is, I believe, an incorrect assumption that was made long ago and nobody ever bothered to challenge it. I also believe that there is a conspiracy to hide the True Three Heavens as it would reveal too much and Empower the Christian.

    Here is what I believe the Bible actually teaches:

    1) Where God dwells
    2) Without (Macrocosm)
    3) Within (Microcosm)


    Oddly enough, those conclusions line up with other religious beliefs as well. I see this as a good thing actually.

    Note that Heaven #2 in my list combines Earth's Atmosphere with Outer Space. They are one and the same Heaven.

    It all boils down to Heaven #3 on my list. There are many verses that support the Within/Microcosm conclusion. Here is one...

    Luke 17:21
    "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you"


    I believe the KJV has it correct as opposed to 'Midst' in some newer translations. Within the Human Body is the Microcosm. We're talking about Human Anatomy, Biology, Blood, DNA, Cells, Atoms, the Holy Ghost and Christ Within us.

    The Microcosm is the Body Temple...

    John 2:21
    "But he spake of the temple of his body"


    This next verse compares Without vs. Within...

    Luke 11:40
    "Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"


    Having said all that, I believe the most obvious and most profound 'Microcosm' or 'Heaven Within' verses have to do with Seed...

    Matthew 13:31
    "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field"


    The Mustard Seed is the Kingdom of God Within that so many fail to see. We are the Seed...

    Matthew 13:38
    "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one"


    See how it all connects? Heaven Within = Seed = Children = Microcosm

    Thus, as you will soon see, the Third Heaven is created in Genesis 1:11...

    Genesis 1:11
    "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so"


    It's very subtle, but it's there none the less. The first Life God creates is the Seed.

    I'm getting ahead of myself here but to summarize, we can conclude that...

    Heaven #1 was created on Day #1
    Heaven #2 was created on Day #2
    Heaven #3 was created on Day #3


    Simple, beautiful, easy to remember, to the point and of course Biblical.

    ;)
     
  15. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    The same can be said for how you kind of stretched the third heaven being how you described it below in your quote.

    So the first heaven can be seen as the Earth's atmosphere.

    Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    That is the first time heaven was mentioned as created and to its definition of that heaven applying it to the earth's atmosphere. You wanted to take Genesis 1:1 as if God created Heaven where He dwells but you are overlooking the latter part of the verse where the earth was created too.

    Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Since we have read on that the earth has not been created yet but being described that it was non-existent at Day One, so is the heaven is non-existent. We see the creation of the water planet and the upper atmosphere which is that heaven that was created first. Then the fourth day the celestial hosts to shine their lights on the earth that day is the outer space heaven.

    We have Enoch and Elijah taken up to the heaven; not God's throne because Jesus said that no man has ascended to God the Father yet. Jesus had to lead the way for any redeemed believer to go up there.

    Then we have Paul testifying of the apostle John in having been caught up to the third heaven which is God's throne.

    2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

    I do not believe Paul was testifying it being the third heaven as being created since God was dwelling there before creation of the earth's atmosphere and the heavenly hosts on day 4. I believe the adjective, the third heaven, was just to signify going beyond the earth's atmosphere and beyond the heavenly hosts in our universe to beyond where God dwells.

    So scripture does testify to that after all of #1 Earth's atmosphere & #2 Outer Space, & #3 Where God dwells as the heavenly references, but not signifying the order of creation since where God dwells, Heaven, always was as God always was.

     
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  16. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing though. As iron sharpens iron, and only God can cause the increase in our knowledge of Him, I can only hope you understand at least why I disagree with your presentation of the three heavens.
     
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  17. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your comments Enow. They are a wonderful addition to the thread!

    I believe Abraham's Bosom is where the Saved go after death. In addition, I believe Abraham's Bosom is very literal and is the Microcosm/Within. I don't agree with some teachings that Abraham's Bosom was somehow 'emptied of captives' long ago.

    Thus another way of looking at it is...

    Heaven #1) Where God dwells
    Heaven #2) Without (Macrocosm) -> Earth's Atmosphere and Outer Space
    Heaven #3) Within (Microcosm) -> Abraham's Bosom


    I believe Paul may have been speaking about himself. It could have been John as well. Either way, I believe they both saw the same place... Paradise. However, I believe that Paradise is Abraham's Bosom.

    Look closely at how Paul writes the verse...

    "whether in the body" <- Microcosm
    "or out of the body" <- Macrocosm

    It has a double meaning. In other words, Paul wasn't sure if the Third Heaven was 'in the body' or 'out of the body'.


    So you believe John was caught up to God's throne as per Revelation right?

    Let's take a closer look at that...

    Throne of God = Heart
    Four Beasts = Four Chambers, Four Forces of Nature
    Slain Lamb = Blood
    Twenty Four Elders = Ribs
    Seven Spirits = Lungs


    You know what that's a picture of? A Bosom.

    Who's Bosom? Abraham's...

    [​IMG]

    John was caught up into Abraham's Bosom... the Third Heaven. See that? We may be in agreement after all. ;)

    Now to relate all of this back to the Seed...

    Matthew 13:24
    "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field"


    Who is the Seed again?

    Galatians 3:29
    "And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise"


    Thus, those in Abraham's Bosom are Abraham's Seed. They rest there until the Lamb leads them to the Tree of Life in which they can partake and become Born Again into the Glorified Body...

    Revelation 7:17
    "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes"


    Remember, the Lamb is in the Heart of the Third Heaven...

    Luke 23:43
    "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise"


    Paradise = Third Heaven = Abraham's Bosom = Microcosm = Kingdom of God Within

    :cool:
     
  18. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Next verse please...

    Genesis 1:4
    "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness"


    The Light is of course Good...

    John 12:46
    "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness"


    I have seen some teach that Genesis 1:3 is when the Big Bang occurred. I disagree, however what Science calls the 'Big Bang' is actually documented in Scripture. We will cover this later.

    What about Darkness? John explains...

    John 1:5
    "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not"


    Darkness is lack of comprehension of what the Light is. Darkness can also be related to a Shadow...

    Luke 1:79
    "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace"
     
  19. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Next verse please...

    Genesis 1:5
    "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day"


    And finally...

    We have completion of Heaven #1... where God dwells. God has two more Heavens yet to build.

    Thus, Day 1 = Heaven #1. Easy to remember.

    In the world of 3D Modeling, this would be equivalent to the Designer creating their first Sketch on the first Plane and getting things ready to make the very first 3D Extruded Shape.

    The 3D Extrusion will be our Universe. Scripture calls our Universe the Firmament. This will be Heaven #2.
     
  20. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Next verse please...

    Genesis 1:6
    "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters"


    Heaven #2 has now been created. This is what we would call Outer Space. It is the Macrocosm and the Without.

    Remember...

    The Waters is a Dimensional Plane and *not* H20. Do not be confused by thoughts of Clouds and Oceans. Earth has not been created yet!

    And even though Earth hasn't been created yet, Earth's Atmosphere will ultimately be part of Heaven #2. It is *not* a separate Heaven as is so often taught.

    In the world of 3D Modeling, we would now say that we have our first 3D Extrusion.
     
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