The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

[Ferris Bueller]

You seem to be trying to make an actual defense for the case that the Sabbath is truly different in its identity and purpose as a commandment than any of the other nine.

Absolutely. No question about that. As a literal command, sabbath keeping has nothing to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'. And doing something loving to another person on the sabbath doesn't make it have something to do with that. In regard to it's spiritual understanding the sabbath command has everything to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's easy: To love God is to love others. To love others is to love God.

Try telling that to the secular humanists.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The very idea that a God who declares that He does not change would insert a disposable commandment within His moral code that He wrote with His own finger on tablets of stone (which He did with no other part of the writings of Moses or any other Bible penman) is a concept that I haven't the slightest idea as to how to wrap my head around.

If a law never being changed or never being disposable was the definition of God never changing, then every male in the church would have to be circumcised. And we'd still be required to sacrifice various animals for sin.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

He literally calls it a sign.

He literally does not call it 'it'; God repeatedly literally calls the Sabbath "MY Sabbath"; it's not MAN'S, see, it is "BECAUSE JESUS GAVE THEM REST THEREFORE SABBATH'S REST DAY OF GOD, for the People of God remains to remember" FOR GOD'S SAKE.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We can continue to volley back and forth about this issue, but I'm not certain that it will benefit anyone if the discussion seems so sporadic in nature. Sorry if this is insulting in any way. It's quite possible that the deficiency is within me.

It seems your particular defense of the literal sabbath boils down to two main arguments. Both of which are easily dismissed.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

But being the SDA fossil you are, there' no salve for you to cure you from the gravel of Gilboa on your gums. I know, I suffer myself.

 

[BarneyFife]

As a literal command, sabbath keeping has nothing to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'

In regard to it's spiritual understanding the sabbath command has everything to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

But we don't avoid lusting after women in our hearts so that we can go ahead and rape them.

And likewise, we don't avoid hating people without cause so we can go ahead and kill them.

Furthermore, we can't expect to get away with refraining from spending too much time at our favorite hobby or paying too much attention to sports figures or Hollywood celebrities so that we can feel justified in literally worshipping idols made of gold, stone, and wood.

But we're supposed to believe it's okay to make sure we find our spiritual rest in Jesus so that we can ignore the God-appointed weekly day of rest from our labors?

If experience is any reliable source of prediction, you will now pounce off the starting line to assure me that what I've described above is all perfectly consistent.

Please don't do that.

CC: @Christ4Me @Curtis @Taken @farouk @GRACE ambassador @1stCenturyLady @Ronald David Bruno @GerhardEbersoehn @Backlit @Desire Of All Nations @FluffyYellowDuck @Cassandra @Nancy @Oceanprayers

(I would be amiss not to argue that, while spiritual rest in Jesus certainly is necessary to give us hearts that are best able to love our neighbors, saying that it has everything to do with it as though nothing else need be considered would be hyperbole, at best.)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It seems your particular defense of the literal sabbath boils down to two main arguments. Both of which are easily dismissed.

You cannot dismiss a fly on your nose, what "My Holy Day My Holy Sabbath Day the day the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

CC: @Christ4Me @Curtis @Taken @farouk @GRACE ambassador @1stCenturyLady @Ronald David Bruno @GerhardEbersoehn @Backlit @Desire Of All Nations @FluffyYellowDuck @Cassandra @Nancy @Oceanprayers

Aye Aye the frisbors kraai, high high high he flies and cries, miles miles miles nose-dive he tries, aye aye aye
FluffyYellowDuckCassandraCurtisTaken.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

This is just an outright ignorant statement to make. The fact that the Sabbath is the last of the 4 commandments that determine how God is supposed to be loved and worshiped is what makes it a moral commandment. The fact that few people even keep this commandment only proves most professing Christians don't actually know Him, though they acknowledge His existence.

Knowing what God did in Gen. 1 and 2 isn't the same as personally knowing Him or even having a relationship with Him. Satan knows what God did, and none of that does him any good because he has no relationship with God. That's the whole point behind God going out of His way to identify the Sabbath command with the events of Gen. 1-2:3.

It literally makes no logical sense for you or anyone else to claim the Sabbath is only a representation of resting from sin while at the same time committing sin by trampling on the Sabbath. It is completely illogical, and it defeats the whole purpose behind resting from sin. This argument is tantamount to trying to wash a car with sewage.
When it comes to Paul mentioning a "law", a person has to be extremely careful in how they read his statements. Sometimes Paul refers to the 10 commandments, a specific commandment in that set, a sacrificial ritual, a man made custom/edict, or the Law(aka Torah) as a whole. The context of the passage usually reveals which one of those things he was referring to.

In Gal. 3:19, the "law" Paul speaks of is concerning animal sacrifices. This law was given to remind people of their guilt and that they needed a Savior that could wipe their slate clean through faith in His sacrifice. That's why Paul called this "law" a tutor. Paul was able to go a lot more in depth about this teaching in his letter to the Hebrews.

As to whether or not you should keep the Sabbath, the answer is a definite "yes" if you desire to truly follow God.
Your whole post here is full of lies, but i want to address this specific lie because it's the most important one that needs to be debunked. You say no commandment was made on the 7th day, but Gen. 2 says otherwise:

"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." - Gen. 2:3

The very act of God setting the 7th day apart by blessing it, consecrating it, and stamping His presence on it by resting made it the Sabbath. The fact that God goes out of His way to mention this act in the codified version of the Sabbath command means this is when it was made. Jesus said the Sabbath was as old as the human race in Mar. 2:27, so there is no other event He could've been possibly been referring to.
Ancient Israel was both a church and state under the Sinai Covenant, so they were given the task of carrying out death sentences when certain laws were violated. As Rom. 13 teaches, the responsibility for carrying out death sentences is a purely civil matter, not a Church matter.

Under the New Covenant, people who reject the Sabbath are to to be treated like an unbeliever until they repent. The death penalty that was attached to the Sabbath command is symbolic of the death penalty that Christ will carry out on everyone who refuses to keep it come Judgement Day.

God commanded OT Israel to administer the death penalty for violating certain commandments because most of them didn't have God's Spirit and couldn't understand the seriousness of sin. The death penalty was both a warning and a doctrinal tool. True Christians don't need such reminders because they know how serious an offense profaning the Sabbath is to God, and they know how He will eventually deal with such people Himself.

Anti-Sabbatarians fail to understand this for the same reason most of the ancient Israelites didn't: they don't have the Holy Spirit, they fail to comprehend the gravity of sin, and they think they have better standards of morality than God. In other words, their religion is completely fake.

Excellent post! You certainly are ON TRACK. But let us wait and see if you will still be on track in Genesis 3:8-24!
I pray God grant that you will

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[Brakelite]

Of course he sanctifies. But what you're not grasping is there is the obedience of sanctification that matters, and there is the obedience of sanctification that doesn't matter. Congregating with believers, for example, is good, and it's expected, but it hardly represents the sanctification and the setting apart of an individual to the obedience that matters. What does it matter if you're congregating, and doing that on the one and only approved day according to the law if you're sleeping with your neighbor's wife, or stealing from your boss? Nothing, of course! It means nothing! Your sacrifice of service and worship to God is meaningless if you are not first obeying God in that which does matter, obedience to the moral commands in the law.

This is a major message of the prophets to a very 'religious', but horribly disobedient nation of Jews. That's what Isaiah is addressing in that Isaiah 1:10-17 passage I shared. And what Jesus is addressing in the Matthew 5:23-24 passage I shared. And so it is in this regard that your religious activities mean nothing; your obedience does. God doesn't even want your religious activities if you are not first obeying him in what counts, summed up in "love your neighbor as yourself". Religious activities are NEVER above and beyond and more important than the commands to care about others and not hurt them. Too many Christians take false comfort in their 'religious' service and sacrifice all the while they are full of hatred and contempt and jealousy and envy and anger, oblivious to the fact that they are not pleasing to God at all in the abundance of their 'church' activities.

And what of all folks' good works and professions of faith, their faithful keeping of the 9 remaining commandments, but all the while refusing to recognize God's authority in requiring His people to honor His holy day? Instead they choose to honor the authority of the institution that established Sunday, or they choose to be their own authority and obey no-one, taking no time off their selfish labor, pretending they are 'resting' 24/7/365.

KJV James 2:10-13
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. (Insert any of the ten commandments here)
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[Curtis]

He literally does not call it 'it'; God repeatedly literally calls the Sabbath "MY Sabbath"; it's not MAN'S, see, it is "BECAUSE JESUS GAVE THEM REST THEREFORE SABBATH'S REST DAY OF GOD, for the People of God remains to remember" FOR GOD'S SAKE.

Hebrews 4 is not about the sabbath day. The rest talked about there is not a day.

 

[BarneyFife]

There's only one difference and change between the Old Testament Sabbath Day and the New Testament Sabbath Day - the one and only difference you, all of you TOGETHER WITH THE JEWS, DO NOT ACCEPT, BUT REJECT WITH UTTER DISGUST -- CHRIST'S RESURRECTION ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD THUS CONCERNING SPAKE AND WHEREFORE FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD, GOD'S RESTING THE SABBATH DAY REMAINS TO BE REMEMBERED -- remains to be remembered like Israel's coming up out of the Red Sea grave, was to be remembered, to keep the Sabbath by.

You're absolutely right, GE. Pretty much all of us do not accept, but reject (but not with disgust, I don't believe) the theory that Christ was resurrected on the Sabbath.

The reason for that is that we believe the theories regarding the unorthodox chronology of the week of Christ's passion are just schismatic heresies.

Not in the sense that those who hold them are unsaved or unsavable.

And I can't really speak for whoever "we" are, but I suspect most folks are fairly aligned with this view. Even the Sunday-keeping scholars.

Is this what landed you in a row with the church?

If you care to respond, please try to do so calmly and simply. I have a really hard time following your posts sometimes. Many of them appear illegible to me. The fault is probably with me, so just assume I'm dumb.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The person who is using their sabbath keeping to 'make their calling and election sure' is deceiving themselves.

WHO does that? You're making up your own imagination then argue as it is other people's thinking and argument.
You need some lessons in humility, that's what you don't have talking all these love stories of yours.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And it does not matter when and where you spend time with God. That's what is reasonable and logical.

So you say believers of the Sabbath Day in Scripture are so stupid they think all that matters is that you spend the Seventh Day with God. That's not what is reasonable and logical at all, because all that matters is that GOD spend the Seventh Day with His People. Look, it is a prayer, my mate, no human initiative but the God-descending mark of GOODWIL -- of GOD-WELLPLEASURE, God-Delight! Which I still want to see proven is not CHRIST JESUS, when Sabbath AND when not Sabbath.
No! You call halt! God, you can only have your delight when not Sabbath.
Your arrogance leaves any flabbergasping

 

[BarneyFife]

Hebrews 4 is not about the sabbath day. The rest talked about there is not a day.

Agreed. This fact really should be conceded by any honest and scholarly Sabbath-keeper. Just my opinion.


Rest. Gr. sabbatismos, “a resting [from previous activity],” “a cessation [from
previous activity],” later “a Sabbathkeeping,” from the verb sabbatizos̄ , “to rest,” “to
cease,” “to keep Sabbath.” Sabbatismos appears elsewhere neither in the Bible nor in
ancient literature until the 2d and 3d centuries, with the possible exception of a single
occurrence in Plutarch Moralia 166A. Consequently, some have concluded that the writer of
Hebrews coined the word as he wrote this passage (see Moulton and Milligan,
Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament).
Sabbatismos and sabbatizō are Greek renderings of the Hebrew noun shabbath and
its related verb shabath, respectively, and the meaning of the latter may be expected to
cast light on the meaning of the former. Shabbath occurs 101 times in the OT, where it
generally means “Sabbath,”—the seventh day of the week—or “week,” a period of seven
days marked off by successive Sabbaths. It is also used of the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:6;
26:34, 43; 2 Chron. 36:21). The verb shabath occurs 70 times, 7 times with reference to
the Sabbath rest and 63 times with reference to other kinds of rest. For instances of the
latter usage see Gen. 8:22; Joshua 5:12; Neh. 6:3; Lam. 5:14; Isa. 14:4; 24:8; 33:8. The
root meaning of the verb shabath is “to cease,” “to rest.” The word sometimes denotes
the weekly Sabbath rest. But the noun shabbath, derived from shabath, commonly
denotes the weekly Sabbath rest, and also the space of time marked off by successive
Sabbaths, the week (Lev. 23:15), and the sabbatical years (ch. 26:35; etc.). It may be
noted also that shabbathon, which is simply shabbath with the ending –on, is used of the
Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:31; 23:32), of the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:4, 5), of the Feast
of Trumpets (Lev. 23:24), and of the first and last days of the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev.
23:39)—as well as of the seventh-day Sabbath.
Sabbatizō is used seven times in the LXX, once of the literal seventh-day Sabbath
(Ex. 16:30), once of other sabbaths (Lev. 23:32), and five times of the land’s resting in
the sabbatical year (Lev. 26:34, 35; 2 Chron. 36:21). In the LXX of Ex. 16:30; Lev.
23:32; 26:34, 35 sabbatizō is from the Hebrew shabath. Accordingly, the fundamental
idea expressed by sabbatizo in the LXX is that of resting or ceasing from labor or other
activity. Hence usage of the related Greek and Hebrew words implies that the noun
sabbatismos may denote either the literal Sabbath “rest” or simply “rest” or “cessation”
in a more general sense. Thus, a linguistic study of the word sabbatismos in Heb. 4:9
leaves it uncertain whether the weekly Sabbath “rest” is here referred to, or simply “rest”
or “cessation” in a general sense. Context alone can decide the matter.
The writer of Hebrews appears to use katapusis and sabbatismos more or less
synonymously:
1. Because Joshua could not lead Israel into spiritual “rest” (katapausis, v. 8), a
sabbatismos (v. 9) remains for Christians. Consistency seems to require that what
remains be the same as what was there to begin with. Because Joshua did not lead literal
Israel into spiritual “rest” would be no reason for the Christian to observe the Sabbath.
2. From vs. 1, 6 it is clear that what remains for the people of God in NT times is a
katapausis; in v. 9 it is said that a sabbatismos remains. To declare that what remains for
“the people of God” is the weekly Sabbath, is to declare that what Joshua failed to lead
Israel into was the weekly Sabbath.
3. The fact that in the LXX, the Bible of the NT church, katapauō (Gen. 2:2, 3); Ex.
20:11) and sabbatizō (Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32) are used interchangeably to denote the
seventh-day Sabbath, would tend to preclude the suggestion that the writer of Hebrews
intended to make a distinction between the noun forms of these words in Heb. 3; 4.
It may be noted, further, that the Jews of Paul’s time, whether Christian or non-
Christian, were punctilious in their observance of the fourth commandment. Certainly, in
writing to Jews, the author of Hebrews would not consider it necessary to prove to them
that Sabbathkeeping “remaineth.” If the conclusion of the extended argument beginning
with ch. 3:7 is that Sabbathkeeping remains for the people of God, it would seem that the
writer of Hebrews is guilty of a non sequitur, for the conclusion does not follow logically
from the argument. There would have been no point in so labored an effort to persuade
the Jews to do what they were already doing—observing the seventh-day Sabbath.
Furthermore, in apostolic times the seventh-day Sabbath was observed by all Christians,
Jew and Gentile alike, and any argument to prove the validity of the Sabbath in those
early Christian times would have been pointless. Furthermore, it may be observed that the
section of the book of Hebrews consisting of chs. 3 and 4 opens with an invitation to
“consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus” (ch. 3:1), and
closes with an earnest plea to “come boldly” before Him in order to “obtain mercy, and
find grace to help in time of need” (ch. 4:16). What relationship a protracted argument
designed to prove that Sabbath observance remains as an obligation to the Christian
church might have to the declared theme of chs. 3 and 4—the ministry of Christ as our
great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary—is obscure indeed.
The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace. It is the true rest of faith.
We enter into God’s “rest” when we “consider” Jesus (ch. 3:1) and listen to His voice
(chs. 3:7, 15; 4:7), when we exercise faith in Him (ch. 4:2, 3), when we cease from our
own efforts to earn salvation (v. 10), when we “hold fast our profession” (v. 14), and
when we draw near to the throne of grace (v. 16). Those who would enter into this
experience must beware of “an evil heart of unbelief” (ch. 3:12), of hardening their hearts
(chs. 3:8, 15; 4:7). They must strive to enter into God’s “rest” (ch. 4:11).
Those who enter into God’s “rest” will “hold fast” their “profession” (v. 14). They
will “come boldly unto the throne of grace” to “obtain mercy, and find grace to help in
time of need” (v. 16).

 

[BarneyFife]

That's not what John says. He says the fruit of the Spirit, love, is how we know we belong to the truth:

"18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence" 1 John 3:18-19

Demonstrative sign--not a symbol.

The person who is using their sabbath keeping to 'make their calling and election sure' is deceiving themselves. The qualities/fruit of the Spirit is what makes 'your calling and election sure', not sabbath keeping.

Straw man

No one will argue with the need to spend time with God. But that is not the sign in and of itself that signifies that you have a saving relationship with God.

...unless God says it is.

And it does not matter when and where you spend time with God.

...unless God says it does.

That's what is reasonable and logical.

The Bible is not a logic textbook. His ways are not our ways.

The sabbath day is not the only time you can have quality time with God.

Straw man

The appointed times signified the appointed time of Christ's appearing, ...

The "appointed times" have nothing to do with the 7th day Sabbath. The Sabbath marks off a calendar week--not the time of Christ's appearing. If you wanted to assign a day of the week to Christ's appearing, you'd be better off going with Thursday. That is, if you agree with Bishop Ussher's chronology.

...not the the only approved and effective times that God will meet with you in fellowship.

Repeat straw man

The precedent for this kind of spiritual discerning of the Mosaic requirements comes right from the Bible itself. Example:

"circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code." Romans 2:29

So is the Sabbath. The spiritual does not always replace the literal. Especially in the case of the ten commandments.

I'm not taking any liberties to discern the symbols of the law that the Bible itself does not give us. Another example:

"9For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”d Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Isn’t He actually speaking on our behalf? Indeed, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they should also expect to share in the harvest." 1 Corinthians 9:9-10

Illustration--not a symbol, and not germane to the discussion.

How'd you make out in the ice storm?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

As a literal command, sabbath keeping has nothing to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

Time you realize the literal Sabbath Commandment is God-breathed.
And buy the buy: <'love your neighbor as yourself'> is not one of the Ten Commandments but applies to the Ten -- to all Ten, including the Fourth Commandment.
So you're imbecilically contradicting yourself that <As a literal command, sabbath keeping has nothing to do with 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yeah, I heard your area is in for a good'n'. Take care, my friend.

Thank you.
So far, lots of rain, no ice buildup. Just now starting to switch over to snow.