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The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by BarnyFife, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    If I acknowledge that I am profaning the sabbath how is that not the same as I am acknowledging it as a holy day that I am profaning?

    But I also acknowledge how I am guiltless for profaning the sabbath because Jesus is in me & is with me always.

    Tell me that Jesus in us and is with us always does not make us guiltless when it is His righteousness apart from the law that brings us Home.
     
  2. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I find a few problems with this.

    First, the idea that the Sabbath is just a day to avoid doing certain things. Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. He also had a custom of attending Synagogue on the Sabbath. And healing people of their diseases and infirmities.

    Second, the commonly held belief that all God requires of us is to love one another is problematic. I can't tell whether you're suggesting that belief or not. It doesn't seem like you. I have a faint recollection of you railing against that in one of the HyperGrace threads. But the greatest commandment, according to Jesus, is to love God with all our heart. The Sabbath is a wonderful opportunity to do some of that.

    Third (and I'm not sure how to say this without sounding sarcastic),
    I didn't limit the 4th commandment to one day per week--God did.

    And finally, I do see the Sabbath and its associated group activities as being beneficial to all involved (others). When I was working as a machinist all week long with people who blasphemed God and were absorbed in worldly interests, while I loved them as candidates for Heaven, I looked forward to fellowshipping with like-minded people who desired to worship God together. I could write a book about this.

    From the OP:
    ____________________________________________________________

    I don't find this illustration taught in the Bible at all. In fact, the literal Sabbath is actually illustrative of ceasing to amass good works in an attempt to qualify for Heaven.
    If you're talking about the good works (which are tainted with selfishness) we do to try to gain favor with God, I agree!
    I must have missed that one. :D
     
  3. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    Your confession and honesty is appreciated I'm sure, but I think somewhat misguided. You are owning up to profaning the Sabbath in the same context, on your own admission, as the disciples were found guiltless when picking fruit for breakfast. Is that what you are doing? You really think God condemned people in the OT for rubbing a few grains of corn together to munch on, or plucking a fig from a tree, or a grape from the vine on Sabbath? Where in the OT did God forbid anyone from such things? Where, how, or why, would such a casual activity be classified as labor?
    But let us hypothesize for a moment, and accept that
    Does this apply to the 7th commandment? Would your wife agree to a threesome with an LGBTQ non binary skinhead because you are both "saved"and Jesus is with you?
     
  4. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is our rest so that we don't have to seek the rest provided by the commandment. There is no penalty of death for not entering into the sabbath rest of Moses. That's because we have entered into rest in Jesus.

    I think he's referring to Joshua and when the people refused to enter into the Land after the twelve spied it out, not Joshua/Jesus the Christ.

    So, here we have the author of Hebrews speaking to Jews, dwelling in the Land of rest, telling them that the promise of entering into God's rest still stands. So he's talking about the spiritual reality, not the outward illustration. For just as the people of God were disobedient and refused to enter into Joshua's rest, so it is that the people of God were disobedient and refused to enter into Jesus' rest. But those who do believe/obey, they do enter into that rest - rest from the taskmaster of sin. And that invitation to enter into Jesus' rest remains and some will enter into it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You have yet to learn that "the day The Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-GOD" is not: 1. What Sabbath required; is not: 2. not speaking idle words; is not; 3. pointing to keeping the true sabbath rest; is not: 4. the sabbath rest from sin; is not: 5. true fasting; is not: 6. fasting from sin; is not: 8. how sabbath keeping and circumcision are related; is not: 9. the spiritual reality of resting from your labor of sin; is not: putting off your sins of the flesh; is not: 10. the spiritual reality of fasting from sin.
    "The Sabbath" is: 1. "the day which is after the Preparation"; is: 2. "day toward before the First Day of the week"; is: 3. "the Seventh Day GOD thus concerning did speak: And GOD the day The Seventh Day from all, HIS, WORKS, did rest"; is: 4. "not another day"; is: 5. "Sabbath-Day-remaining-for-the-People-of-God-to-remember"; is: 6. "Sabbath-Feast-of-Christ"; is: 7. "the-to-hear-the-Word-of-God-Sabbath-Day".
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  6. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Don't you realize that what you're actually doing is putting it BEFORE His moral code for humanity?
     
  7. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    These are pretty concrete:

    "...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

    There are signs that count, and there are signs that don't count. These are signs that count. These are signs that signify you are indeed in covenant with God. They actually mean something. But anyone can be circumcised. Anyone can keep a sabbath day. They signify nothing. They have their value, but not toward making you right with God, or showing you to be right with God.
     
  8. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    What's that? Morally all men belong in eternal hell eternally.
     
  9. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    No. God expressly puts the caveat “IF” as to what HE WILLED, had been applied. Not ‘IF a man believe', but, if a man BELIEVES, it's because God caused him to believe.
     
  10. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Laws about how we treat each other and guard their well-being.
     
  11. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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  12. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was called "Sabbatholatry" by another poster. I get that a lot. But I honestly don't think I give the Sabbath any more weight than, say, not murdering people.
    Would you find the fruit of the Spirit "concrete" in the same way that you would a rainbow, a circumcision, a baptism, or a communion service?
    Does God devise signs that don't count (whatever that means)?
    Actually, they're signs that demonstrate that someone is in a saving relationship with God. I'm not talking about demonstrative signs (though I respect that you are). I'm talking about signs that signify, represent, or symbolize. Like rainbows, baptisms, or Sabbath observance, none of which in and of themselves, demonstrate that a person is in a saving relationship with God. They simply signify. It's not that they don't count. They're different. I'm not sure why we're having so much trouble with defining terms, I must admit.

    God says:
    ...so I'm not sure why we're claiming that the Sabbath is a sign that doesn't count.

    He literally calls it a sign.

    Can there be any doubt that God sanctifies believers today? Has he given any instruction that His sign of sanctification has been replaced or doesn't count?
    ..except whatever God says they mean.
    They are outward symbols of an inward condition. Not demonstrative proof.
     
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  13. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    This is just an outright ignorant statement to make. The fact that the Sabbath is the last of the 4 commandments that determine how God is supposed to be loved and worshiped is what makes it a moral commandment. The fact that few people even keep this commandment only proves most professing Christians don't actually know Him, though they acknowledge His existence.

    Knowing what God did in Gen. 1 and 2 isn't the same as personally knowing Him or even having a relationship with Him. Satan knows what God did, and none of that does him any good because he has no relationship with God. That's the whole point behind God going out of His way to identify the Sabbath command with the events of Gen. 1-2:3.

    It literally makes no logical sense for you or anyone else to claim the Sabbath is only a representation of resting from sin while at the same time committing sin by trampling on the Sabbath. It is completely illogical, and it defeats the whole purpose behind resting from sin. This argument is tantamount to trying to wash a car with sewage.
    When it comes to Paul mentioning a "law", a person has to be extremely careful in how they read his statements. Sometimes Paul refers to the 10 commandments, a specific commandment in that set, a sacrificial ritual, a man made custom/edict, or the Law(aka Torah) as a whole. The context of the passage usually reveals which one of those things he was referring to.

    In Gal. 3:19, the "law" Paul speaks of is concerning animal sacrifices. This law was given to remind people of their guilt and that they needed a Savior that could wipe their slate clean through faith in His sacrifice. That's why Paul called this "law" a tutor. Paul was able to go a lot more in depth about this teaching in his letter to the Hebrews.

    As to whether or not you should keep the Sabbath, the answer is a definite "yes" if you desire to truly follow God.
    Your whole post here is full of lies, but i want to address this specific lie because it's the most important one that needs to be debunked. You say no commandment was made on the 7th day, but Gen. 2 says otherwise:

    "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." - Gen. 2:3

    The very act of God setting the 7th day apart by blessing it, consecrating it, and stamping His presence on it by resting made it the Sabbath. The fact that God goes out of His way to mention this act in the codified version of the Sabbath command means this is when it was made. Jesus said the Sabbath was as old as the human race in Mar. 2:27, so there is no other event He could've been possibly been referring to.
    Ancient Israel was both a church and state under the Sinai Covenant, so they were given the task of carrying out death sentences when certain laws were violated. As Rom. 13 teaches, the responsibility for carrying out death sentences is a purely civil matter, not a Church matter.

    Under the New Covenant, people who reject the Sabbath are to to be treated like an unbeliever until they repent. The death penalty that was attached to the Sabbath command is symbolic of the death penalty that Christ will carry out on everyone who refuses to keep it come Judgement Day.

    God commanded OT Israel to administer the death penalty for violating certain commandments because most of them didn't have God's Spirit and couldn't understand the seriousness of sin. The death penalty was both a warning and a doctrinal tool. True Christians don't need such reminders because they know how serious an offense profaning the Sabbath is to God, and they know how He will eventually deal with such people Himself.

    Anti-Sabbatarians fail to understand this for the same reason most of the ancient Israelites didn't: they don't have the Holy Spirit, they fail to comprehend the gravity of sin, and they think they have better standards of morality than God. In other words, their religion is completely fake.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  14. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because the Bible does.
    Obedience is better than the sacrifice and service of your outward worship. Yes, I know, the big question is swirling around in your mind right now, "but isn't the sacrifice and service of your outward worship obedience, too?"

    This will help you understand the point:

    "26If a man who is not circumcised keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27The one who is physically uncircumcised yet keeps the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker."

    Circumcision is a commanded 'obedience' of the law, so why isn't it included in 'keeps the requirements of the law'? Obviously, there is a distinction of laws here. It is on this understanding that I feel no compulsion to keep a literal sabbath as a requirement of law (like 'do not steal' is a requirement). There are laws that constitute the body of laws kept by the law keeper, and there are laws that are not a part of that body of laws, but are laws, nonetheless.
     
  15. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    I pretty sure you started to go there in another post. And I expected that. I was waiting for you to flesh it out a little more. But if you don't think that, then I guess there's no reason to go there.
     
  16. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, I would.
    The point is, there are signs that mean something, and there are signs that don't mean anything and can signify nothing. Like I say, anyone can keep a literal sabbath. Anyone can get circumcised. Circumcision is indeed a sign, but not literal circumcision, but rather the mark in the flesh of the putting off of the deeds of the flesh. That sign means something. The literal outward sign means nothing, proves nothing.

    Same with the sabbath. There is the literal sabbath that means nothing, proves nothing, insofar as it being a sign. But then there is the sign of the true sabbath, the rest from the deeds of the flesh that God provides. That does mean something and proves something. That is the real sabbath sign command of which the literal Mosaic command only pointed to.
     
  17. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    WINNER, WINNER, CHIK'N DINNER!!! :D:D:D;););):):):)
     
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  18. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    Paul said Abraham's circumcision was the sign of the righteousness that he had by faith while uncircumcised.
    We know in Abraham's case it really did signify the presence of righteousness. But what about the countless other circumcised people of God for whom it's an absolutely false sign?

    We now know this was all for the purpose of illustration. We understand the spiritual reality through what we can see and understand in the natural. That's what the sabbath observance is. It's an illustration of a far, far more important spiritual reality. The illustration leads us to it. And once we understand and enter into the reality, the shadow doesn't have to be performed anymore. We see this in all the other ceremonial laws. The shadow gets put aside in favor of the spiritual reality that cast that shadow.
     
  19. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    What does keeping a literal sabbath prove?
    It's useless to signify that you are really at rest in Jesus.
    But the spiritual reality of the sabbath does signify that you really are at rest in Jesus. The cessation of your work of sin does indeed signify that you are in Christ, dead to sin.
     
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