The Gospel of Grace:

[Prentis]

Paul is fearful of dead works without a living faith.
James is fearful of a dead faith that produces no good works.

WOW! Well said brother!

One warns against faith without works, and the other works without faith... The way is narrow, and there is one ditch on each side. Many, seeing the ditch on one side, fall into the opposite... There are many errors.

If no works are produced, faith is a mere dead thing, good for nothing. One who produces no good works proves he has not obeyed God, and should not be declared righteous by man.

This is the position of some today who assent mentally to certain doctrinal creeds, but manifest no spiritual life or fruit.

Preach it brother!

It is as true today as when Jesus said it that 'you will know them by their fruit'.

 

[brother dave]

WOW! one of you said something almost biblical?

WHY DONT YOU GUYS UNSAVE EACH OTHER? I MEAN ,IS IT JUST CAUSE YOU HAVE TO SAME IGNORNANT DOCTRINE? OR DO YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF LIFE EACH OTHER LIVES? DO YOU GUYS GO TO THE SAME SYNAGOGUE?

 

[Prentis]

WOW! one of you said something almost biblical?

There are two things that combined make a man to fall into a ditch, and remain there unless he repents.

Partial blindness, that he sees one error, but is blind to the other... Hence seeing one ditch, he heads the other way and falls into the one on the other side. Blindness then is what makes us first fall into a ditch. But this is not a deadly sin! As Jesus says, if you admit that you are blind, your sin will not remain.

The other error is pride. This is what keeps man in the ditch that is on either side of the narrow way. If God does not give one brother sight, it is to test his character. When his brother points out something he cannot see to him, will he humbly seek God to see if he is in error, or will he reject counsel?

Pro 16:21 The wise in heart shall be called prudent: and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.

He is prudent because he watches his step, and is diligent not to misstep on either side.

Pro 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit

Pride is what puts brings us to fall... But humility allows us to be rescued.

 

[dragonfly]

Psalm 45​

1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king:

my tongue [is] the pen of a ready writer. {s inditing: Heb. boils, or, bubbles up}​

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips:

therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. ​

3 Gird thy sword upon [thy] thigh, O [most] mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness [and] righteousness;

and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. ​

5 Thine arrows [are] sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; [whereby] the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:

therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. ​

8 All thy garments [smell] of myrrh, and aloes, [and] cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

9 Kings' daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people,

and thy father's house; ​

11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he [is] thy Lord; and worship thou him.

12 And the daughter of Tyre [shall be there] with a gift; [even] the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.

13 The king's daughter [is] all glorious within: her clothing [is] of wrought gold.

14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework:

the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought to thee. ​

15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.

16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou may make princes in all the earth.

17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee

for ever and ever.​

 

[brother dave]

h34r: WELL! TELL YOUR FRIENDS AND I WILL LISTEN TO YOU UNSAVE THEM!
2Co 3:6

who has also qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, which is not written but spiritual, because the written text brings death, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7


Now if the ministry of death that was inscribed in letters of stone came with such glory that the people of Israel could not gaze on Moses' face (because the glory was fading away from it),
2Co 3:8

will not the Spirit's ministry have even more glory?
2Co 3:9

For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, then the ministry of justification has an overwhelming glory.


h34r: "Partial blindness, that he sees one error, but is blind to the other... Hence seeing one ditch, he heads the other way and falls into the one on the other side. Blindness then is what makes us first fall into a ditch. But this is not a deadly sin! As Jesus says, if you admit that you are blind, your sin will not remain."
1Jn 2:10

The person who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no reason for him to stumble.
1Jn 2:11

But the person who hates his brother is in the darkness and lives in the darkness. He does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

YOUR HEARTS ARE FULL OF HATRED! AND YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE NATURE OF MY LORD!

 

[Prentis]

The person who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no reason for him to stumble.
1Jn 2:11

Amen! But what this love is must be properly defined and understood. A loving brother seeks to restore a brother who errs from the truth... Rebuke and reproof are necessary for our own well being.

But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Heb. 3:13

But the old nature hates this treatment, because the old nature desires to be saved as it is. Pro 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Which nature are you living from?

 

[brother dave]

The person who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no reason for him to stumble.
1Jn 2:11

Amen! But what this love is must be properly defined and understood. A loving brother seeks to restore a brother who errs from the truth... Rebuke and reproof are necessary for our own well being.

But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Heb. 3:13

But the old nature hates this treatment, because the old nature desires to be saved as it is. Pro 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Which nature are you living from?

DO YOU SIN?
1Co 13:4

Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous of others ; love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5

does not behave in an unseemly manner, does not seek what is its own, is not quickly provoked, does not impute evil,

1Co 13:6

does not rejoice at iniquity but rejoices with the truth,

 

[Prentis]

DO YOU SIN?

Yes. I have not yet attained...

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

May he grant you repentance and reveal his truth to you that you might enter the race!

You are clever in making things about others, and that is fine with me. I am okay with answering the above question... and it is right and good before the Lord that I should be able to give a defense for my faith... In this I commend you.

But there is a question that remains for you now.

What nature are you living from? The one who hates reproof and seeks to save itself, avoids questions and desires only to tear down that which does not give it immunity but calls to responsibility? Or the nature that is humble, meek, seeking not it's own, and looking to give it's life?

Finding the real answer can only help you... May He open your eyes to see it!

 

[dragonfly]

DO YOU SIN?

Wrong question.


Right questions:

Are you crucified with Christ?

Do you know the power of His resurrection?

Do you have the help of the Holy Spirit to mortify the man of flesh?

Do you have victory over sins which used to defeat you?

 

[brother dave]

Wrong question.


Right questions:

Are you crucified with Christ?

Do you know the power of His resurrection?

Do you have the help of the Holy Spirit to mortify the man of flesh?

Do you have victory over sins which used to defeat you?

YES! THATS ME! AND HAVING THAT I KNOW ITS BY GRACE!
Luk 11:42

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luk 11:43

Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
Luk 11:44

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
Luk 11:45

Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.

Luk 11:46

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.


BY THE WAY WAS MOSES BEFORE ABRAHAM?

 

[Prentis]

Just so you know, you cut out two of dragonfly's four questions, which all go together and follow each other.

Do you have the help of the Holy Spirit to mortify the man of flesh?

Do you have victory over sins which used to defeat you?

 

[brother dave]

Yes. I have not yet attained...

WELL I CAN NOT HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH SINNERS! GET IT RIGHT AND THEN ME AND YOU CAN TALK AGAIN!
Luk 11:52

Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luk 11:53

And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
Luk 11:54

Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Isa 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Isa 32:18 And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places;

 

[us2are1]

LOOK! we get it! you guys are the only ones who are saved! and we are really honored ,to know such great and holy ones such as you! so if you dont mind? let us talk about the goodness and glory of Jesus! and we know its not for us but we really love Him! even if we are not saved?

1Pe 4:8 but before all things having fervent love among yourselves, because love covers a multitude of sins;
1Pe 4:9 hospitable one to another, without murmuring;
1Pe 4:10 each according as he has received a gift, ministering it to one another, as good stewards of the various grace of God.
1Pe 4:11 If any one speak--as oracles of God; if any one minister--as of strength which God supplies; that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory and the might for the ages of ages. Amen.


"TO OBEY THE GOSPEL"? THE GOOD NEWS! TO TURN FROM THE WORKS OF THE LAW! SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE!
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL! IF YOU HAVE A CONFLICT BETWEEN PAUL AND PETER? THEN YOU ARE THE ONE IN ERROR NOT THEM!

WHEN YOU TAKE A SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTEXT? ALL YOU HAVE IS A "CON"
1Pe 4:17

For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who refuse to obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18


"If it is hard for the righteous person to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and sinful person?"
1Pe 4:19

So then, those who suffer according to God's will should entrust their souls to a faithful Creator and continue to do what is good.

It is apparent that you don't get it.

It is also apparent that you find pleasure and release in the lies of man.

Repent and believe the gospel of Christ.

This means to forsake all else and follow Him.

Luke 14
33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 10
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

 

[haz]

Hi brother dave,

I see you've been set upon by those here who say they know Christ but in works they deny him.
Continue preaching on God's grace regardless.

Sadly, the works crowd here are walking after the flesh. They oppose themselves and all others in their rebellion and deceit. Unless they repent the following scripture testifies of the outcome of their works.

2Pet 2:13,14
'and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.'

 

[us2are1]

This has nothing to do with works of the Law delivered by Moses to Gods chosen people.

It has to do with changing your mind and heart and taking every breath and step for Christ.

It has to do with not serving anyone or anything but Christ.

You are the works crowd who rise up in spirit against God to continue in your insanity and sin.

See if you can stop the hand of God from putting an end to your gospel of compromise real soon.

 

[brother dave]

This has nothing to do with works of the Law delivered by Moses to Gods chosen people.

It has to do with changing your mind and heart and taking every breath and step for Christ.

It has to do with not serving anyone or anything but Christ.

You are the works crowd who rise up in spirit against God to continue in your insanity and sin.

See if you can stop the hand of God from putting an end to your gospel of compromise real soon.

Isa 54:9

For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
Isa 54:10

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Hi brother dave,

I see you've been set upon by those here who say they know Christ but in works they deny him.
Continue preaching on God's grace regardless.

Sadly, the works crowd here are walking after the flesh. They oppose themselves and all others in their rebellion and deceit. Unless they repent the following scripture testifies of the outcome of their works.

2Pet 2:13,14
'and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.'

well i agree Haz! and seems filled with hate for all!

 

[Prentis]

Isa 54:9

For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
Isa 54:10

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Any man can pick through the Bible and take the verses that promise blessing and say 'That's me!' and reject the ones with hard warnings or judgments and say 'God would never do that to me, don't you see the beautiful promises he gave me?'

Anyone can do it, and very many do... But this is disconnected from reality.

What about...

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

When you hear this, is your attitude 'is it me, Lord?' or is your attitude 'Certainly it is not I!'??

You have already revealed it in your words, but I ask for your own sake.

The carnal man looks through a catalogue and picks out what he likes... And he comes to the Bible with the same approach. But a Spiritual man seeks only the truth, and waits for God to reveal it.

It is not us who take the Bible and interpret it, but it is the Bible, by what we do with it, that interprets us. How we use it reveals our intent. Are we seeking to save our own life or give it up?

 

[Episkopos]

WELL I CAN NOT HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH SINNERS! GET IT RIGHT AND THEN ME AND YOU CAN TALK AGAIN!
Luk 11:52

Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luk 11:53

And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
Luk 11:54

Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Isa 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Isa 32:18 And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places;

You are yourself a sinner...where's your grace grace grace???

 

[brother dave]

Any man can pick through the Bible and take the verses that promise blessing and say 'That's me!' and reject the ones with hard warnings or judgments and say 'God would never do that to me, don't you see the beautiful promises he gave me?'

Anyone can do it, and very many do... But this is disconnected from reality.

What about...

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

When you hear this, is your attitude 'is it me, Lord?' or is your attitude 'Certainly it is not I!'??

You have already revealed it in your words, but I ask for your own sake.

Co 5:12

For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
2Co 5:13

For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
2Co 5:14

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15

And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


2Co 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

You are yourself a sinner...where's your grace grace grace???

1Co 1:27

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29

That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1Co 1:30

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


1Co 1:31

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Prentis,

I liked this sentence a lot!

It is not us who take the Bible and interpret it, but it is the Bible, by what we do with it, that interprets us. How we use it reveals our intent. Are we seeking to save our own life or give it up?

This is another very true statement. Thanks!

One way to shortcut one's reluctance to read it for what it might say about us, is to lay one's whole life on the altar at once, and settle once and for all time the matter of the Lord's ownership rights over one's life. Stop trying to keep back a bit for self. Stop trying to give Him only what He asks for. Give Him it all, and He will give back more than enough fulness to make up for all losses.