The Great Moon Coincidence

[bigape]

I am sure, with the great variety of people that log on to this site, that there are several here who reject Creationism, and to those individuals I present the great moon coincidence.

The coincidence that I am referring to, is the fact that our planet has one natural satellite(the moon), that is about 2,159 miles in diameter and orbits at about 238,857 miles from the Earth.

While at the same time, the Earth orbits the sun, that is 864,400 miles in diameter, and is about 93,000,000 miles from the Earth.

Now it just so happens, that we have this humongous sun, 93 million miles away and we have this small moon, about 2000 miles away but when the moon’s orbit brings it between us and the sun, the moon just happens to be the exact same size as the sun(from our perspective), perfectly blocking out the sun’s light.
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This phenomenon points out that when God created the sun and the moon and placed them in there perspective positions, that He had the “eyes of man” in mind.

Because a solar eclipse, can only be experienced from our perspective here on Earth.

 

[Paul]

I am sure, with the great variety of people that log on to this site, that there are several here who reject Creationism, and to those individuals I present the great moon coincidence.

....

Because a solar eclipse, can only be experienced from our perspective here on Earth.

Now take a look at Saros 136.

 

[Strangelove]

The coincidence that I am referring to, is the fact that our planet has one natural satellite(the moon), that is about 2,159 miles in diameter and orbits at about 238,857 miles from the Earth.

While at the same time, the Earth orbits the sun, that is 864,400 miles in diameter, and is about 93,000,000 miles from the Earth.

You are in error here. The Earth does not orbit the Sun.

The Earth is not a planet.

The Earth is stationary and fixed in place at the centre of the celestial sphere as per scripture.

I'd be happy to discuss this if your interested.

 

[bigape]

You are in error here. The Earth does not orbit the Sun.

The Earth is not a planet.

The Earth is stationary and fixed in place at the centre of the celestial sphere as per scripture.

I'd be happy to discuss this if your interested.

You know, you are right. I apologize for forgetting that.
The Earth is, at the center of the universe, where God sent His “only” Son to die for us.

 

[Strangelove]

You know, you are right. I apologize for forgetting that.
The Earth is, at the center of the universe, where God sent His “only” Son to die for us.

No need to apologize friend:::::

I often refer to "planet" Earth by mistake.

Indoctrination is a doozer aint it??>>

 

[Strangelove]

I am sure, with the great variety of people that log on to this site, that there are several here who reject Creationism.....

I think most people who reject creationsism are those that embrace evolution.

Nullifying evolution is easy.

1) It's not Biblical

2) Theres no scientific evidence for it.

3) The whole philosophy for the Big Bang / 15 Million Year Old / Expanding Universe paradigm THEORY's, the theorys that evoluiton fundamentaly relies on::::::::: are ripped straight from the Christ hating books of the Pharisees. Namely the kaballaha and talmud.

Doc.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

You are in error here. The Earth does not orbit the Sun.

The Earth is not a planet.

The Earth is stationary and fixed in place at the centre of the celestial sphere as per scripture.

I'd be happy to discuss this if your interested.

Let's discuss this.

What verses say this? I've heard it before. However, isn't it evident that the Earth and all the planets revolve around the sun? I wonder if we're misunderstanding, or adding to the idea of the Earth being the center of the universe.

 

[242006]

You are in error here. The Earth does not orbit the Sun.

The Earth is not a planet.

The Earth is stationary and fixed in place at the centre of the celestial sphere as per scripture.

I'd be happy to discuss this if your interested.

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

According to your logic, the earth is flat as well.

 

[bigape]

Hi WhiteKnuckle

You asked........

“Let's discuss this.
What verses say this? I've heard it before. However, isn't it evident that the Earth and all the planets revolve around the sun? I wonder if we're misunderstanding, or adding to the idea of the Earth being the center of the universe.”

It all has to do with “perspective”:
If you put the sun in the center of the solar system, than it will look like everything revolves around it.
But if you place the Earth, in the center, you can see how everything revolves around it.
--------------------------------------------------
As for Scripture, here is one......
Joshua 10:12-14
V.12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
V.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
V.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Because the sun is revolving around the Earth, this miracle was made possible!

 

[Strangelove]

Let's discuss this.

What verses say this? I've heard it before. However, isn't it evident that the Earth and all the planets revolve around the sun? I wonder if we're misunderstanding, or adding to the idea of the Earth being the center of the universe.

Let me first say this with regard to scripture.

When it comes to the issue of whether or not the Earth is moving.....scripture never conclusively or simply states it for sure.

What we CAN see from scripture, is that whenever the Earth or world are reffered to in relation to movement or no movement, it always gives the impression that there is no movement. Not 100% but it gives the impression.

Similarly, whenever the sun is mentioned with regard to movement or no movement, the Bible always gives the impression that the sun is moving. Now you can say that it's just written that way, same like people say sunrise and sunset just because thats the way we've always said it....................or you can take the Bible at its Word and say that it gives the impression that the sun is moving around the Earth.

Personally I dont really need scripture to tell me the Earth is stationary>>>

My eyes tell me its stationary::::::::::::::

Common sense tells me its stationary::::::::::::::

Real, reproducable, non-theoretical physical experiments tell me its stationary:::::::::::

Doc.

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

According to your logic, the earth is flat as well.

Not at all. According to my logic::::::::::::I discern not to take the 4 corners literally. I see it as meaning north south east and west.

 

[242006]

Not at all. According to my logic::::::::::::I discern not to take the 4 corners literally. I see it as meaning north south east and west.

Thereby, you, and all fixed-earth believers, expose the gaping hole in your reasoning. You folks will claim scripture, which references the earth to be the center of the universe, to be 'literal' -- not given by God for the benefit of man's perspective. Yet, when presented with Rev. 7:1 as 'literal' proof that the earth is flat with four corners, you folks are all quick to state that scripture is not always given 'literally'.

Perhaps, if you fixed-earthers examined those scriptures related to the earth's position in the universe as you do Rev. 7:1, you folks would not be making such fools out of yourselves by continuing to proffer a theory that has already been proven false for centuries already.

 

[Strangelove]

Thereby, you, and all fixed-earth believers, expose the gaping hole in your reasoning. You folks will claim scripture, which references the earth to be the center of the universe, to be 'literal' -- not given by God for the benefit of man's perspective. Yet, when presented with Rev. 7:1 as 'literal' proof that the earth is flat with four corners, you folks are all quick to state that scripture is not always given 'literally'.

Perhaps, if you fixed-earthers examined those scriptures related to the earth's position in the universe as you do Rev. 7:1, you folks would not be making such fools out of yourselves by continuing to proffer a theory that has already been proven false for centuries already.

So Watchman can I ask you, do you:::::::

1) Take ALL scripture figuratively .

........or.....

2) Take ALL scripture literally.

And remember....by your rules...you can only have one or the other.

And please...we can keep this civil without resorting to personal attacks.....thanks. That way, whichever way this discussion goes, no-one will end up feeling like a fool.

And also, at this point you can start bringing your evidence of a moving Earth forward. I'd be happy to address it.

Doc.

 

[242006]

So Watchman can I ask you, do you:::::::

1) Take ALL scripture figuratively .

........or.....

2) Take ALL scripture literally.

And remember....by your rules...you can only have one or the other.

And please...we can keep this civil without resorting to personal attacks.....thanks. That way, whichever way this discussion goes, no-one will end up feeling like a fool.

And also, at this point you can start bringing your evidence of a moving Earth forward. I'd be happy to address it.

Doc.

The rule only applies to you, as the only scriptural argument for your fixed-earth belief is that there are no scriptures proving that the earth's place in the universe being anything else other than the center thereof.

It is not a personal attack to point out the fact that it is foolish to proffer a theory that was disproven centuries ago.

As for evidence, see Galileo's discovery of the moons of Jupiter. Those moons revolve around Jupiter -- not the earth. It proved the fixed-earthers of Galileo's time in error, as it does you today.

 

[Strangelove]

The rule only applies to you, as the only scriptural argument for your fixed-earth belief is that there are no scriptures proving that the earth's place in the universe being anything else other than the center thereof.

Huh? The rule only applies to me?>>>>>Lol.

As for scripture supporting a fixed Earth. Lets take it one at a time. How do you respond to bigapes post regarding Joshua's long day?

As for evidence, see Galileo's discovery of the moons of Jupiter. Those moons revolve around Jupiter -- not the earth. It proved the fixed-earthers of Galileo's time in error, as it does you today.

How does the fact that Jupiters moons orbit Jupiter prove that the Earth is not stationary at the centre of the universe?

 

[242006]

As for scripture supporting a fixed Earth. Lets take it one at a time. How do you respond to bigapes post regarding Joshua's long day?

See Job 38 - 41. God made the universe that we live in. Certainly, He can stop the earth from rotating for one day if He so chooses.

How does the fact that Jupiters moons orbit Jupiter prove that the Earth is not stationary at the centre of the universe?

Proved that earth was not the center of the universe. Galileo was tried as a heretic for such views.

 

[Strangelove]

See Job 38 - 41. God made the universe that we live in. Certainly, He can stop the earth from rotating for one day if He so chooses.

The Word doesnt say anything about God stopping the Earth's rotation. It says He stopped the sun and moon in the sky.

Proved that earth was not the center of the universe. Galileo was tried as a heretic for such views.

Yeah....How....is what I'm asking you. You bring it forth as evidence....do you even understand it?

As for Galileo, lets have a look at his sworn recantation.

Recantation of Galileo (June 22, 1633)

I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, arraigned personally before this tribunal, and kneeling before you, Most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity throughout the entire Christian commonwealth, having before my eyes and touching with my hands, the Holy Gospels, swear that I have always believed, do believe, and by God's help will in the future believe, all that is held, preached, and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas -- after an injunction had been judicially intimated to me by this Holy Office, to the effect that I must altogether abandon the false opinion that the sun is the center of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the center of the world, and moves, and that I must not hold, defend, or teach in any way whatsoever, verbally or in writing, the said false doctrine, and after it had been notified to me that the said doctrine was contrary to Holy Scripture -- I wrote and printed a book in which I discuss this new doctrine already condemned, and adduce arguments of great cogency in its favor, without presenting any solution of these, and for this reason I have been pronounced by the Holy Office to be vehemently suspected of heresy, that is to say, of having held and believed that the Sun is the center of the world and immovable, and that the earth is not the center and moves:
Therefore, desiring to remove from the minds of your Eminences, and of all faithful Christians, this vehement suspicion, justly conceived against me, with sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the aforesaid errors and heresies, and generally every other error, heresy, and sect whatsoever contrary to the said Holy Church, and I swear that in the future I will never again say or assert, verbally or in writing, anything that might furnish occasion for a similar suspicion regarding me; but that should I know any heretic, or person suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to this Holy Office, or to the Inquisitor or Ordinary of the place where I may be. Further, I swear and promise to fulfill and observe in their integrity all penances that have been, or that shall be, imposed upon me by this Holy Office. And, in the event of my contravening, (which God forbid) any of these my promises and oaths, I submit myself to all the pains and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents. So help me God, and these His Holy Gospels, which I touch with my hands.

I, the said Galileo Galilei, have abjured, sworn, promised, and bound myself as above; and in witness of the truth thereof I have with my own hand subscribed the present document of my abjuration, and recited it word for word at Rome, in the Convent of Minerva, this twenty-second day of June, 1633.

I, Galileo Galilei, have abjured as above with my own hand.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say he knew he messed up.

And before you dismiss this historical written document by saying he was forced to sign it...observe the following:::

[Galileo's Recantation excludes two points included in the original formula for abjuration presented to him by the Cardinals. These two points, objected to by Galileo, would have had him declare that he was not a good Catholic and that he deceived others in publishing his book.]

Source: Giorgio de Santillana, The Crime of Galileo (University of Chicago Press 1955), pp. 312-313.

 

[242006]

The Word doesnt say anything about God stopping the Earth's rotation. It says He stopped the sun and moon in the sky.

The Word doesn't say anything about God stopping the sun from revolving aroud the earth [for those fools that believe such nonsense] either.

Try reading it again -



Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Check out the Hebrew word rendered as 'stood still' -

H1826

דּמם



dâmam



daw-mam'



A primitive root (compare H1724, H1820); to be dumb; by implication to [sub]be astonished, to stop; also to perish: - cease, be cut down (off), forbear, hold peace, quiet self, rest, be silent, keep (put to) silence, be (stand), still, tarry, wait.by[/sub]



[sub]

[/sub]It means 'by implication' that the sun stopped or "stood still", which, if God caused the earth to cease rotating, would give the implication that the sun stopped.


It is only 'by implication' to mean 'stop' or "stood still". Hence, if God stopped the earth from rotating, it would give mankind the 'implication' that the sun "stood still". Either the earth stopped rotating or the sun stopped revolving around the earth [for those who believe such nonsense]. The meaning, 'by implication', suggests that the former case, and not the latter, best fits the scripture.

Yeah....How....is what I'm asking you. You bring it forth as evidence....do you even understand it?

I fully understand it -- and, I explained it to you previously. It is obvious that you do not understand the significance of Galileo's discovery.

For the moons of Jupiter, Earth is not the center of their universe -- Jupiter is. For the religious hacks of Galileo's time, all heavenly bodies had to revolve around the earth -- as it was their hack belief that the Earth was the center of the universe. Hence, it was heresy for Galileo to claim otherwise.

 

[Martin W.]

Hi WhiteKnuckle

You asked........

It all has to do with “perspective”:
If you put the sun in the center of the solar system, than it will look like everything revolves around it.
But if you place the Earth, in the center, you can see how everything revolves around it.
--------------------------------------------------
As for Scripture, here is one......
Joshua 10:12-14
V.12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
V.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
V.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Because the sun is revolving around the Earth, this miracle was made possible!

NASA would agree.

We live in an expanding universe. For example the moon moves about 1 1/2 inches farther away from earth every day. When Houston was doing the very precise trajectory to land man on the moon they needed a comprehensive and historical calculation to be able to place the Lunar module in the correct moon crater at the exact time.

They also used other planets and star positions to confirm the trajectory desired.

But there was a consistent and puzzling error that had them stumped.

That is until one of the engineers spoke up and mentioned the part in Joshua where the sun stood still for a day.

NASA modified calculations allowing for the one day and everything reconciled after that. I heard this from the lips of one of the astronauts speaking to a christian group.

 

[bud02]

NASA would agree.

We live in an expanding universe. For example the moon moves about 1 1/2 inches farther away from earth every day. When Houston was doing the very precise trajectory to land man on the moon they needed a comprehensive and historical calculation to be able to place the Lunar module in the correct moon crater at the exact time.

They also used other planets and star positions to confirm the trajectory desired.

But there was a consistent and puzzling error that had them stumped.

That is until one of the engineers spoke up and mentioned the part in Joshua where the sun stood still for a day.

NASA modified calculations allowing for the one day and everything reconciled after that. I heard this from the lips of one of the astronauts speaking to a christian group.

The Chinese also record a long day at the time of Joshua.
All around the world history indicates that civilizations calendars went from 360 days a year to 365 .

My opinion of Mr Strangelove's position about the church and Galileo. Is that this church has painted its self into a corner. It claims to be infallible, it will never relinquish its decisions or position on the matter, to do so would indicate its human quality instead of its claim to be the single unerring voice of god on earth. In that, it is not the augment of the sun verses earth rotation. But the sword Mr Strangelove bears is in defense of his faith in his church. JMHO

 

[Strangelove]

The Word doesn't say anything about God stopping the sun from revolving aroud the earth [for those fools that believe such nonsense] either.

I'm starting to think you have been through this argument before watchman....(AND LOST). You seem to bear a grudge. Again I ask you to please keep the discussion civil and refrain from calling those of us who choose to accept the possibility of a stationary Earth....fools.

Try reading it again -
[/size]Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
[sub]
[/sub]It means 'by implication' that the sun stopped or "stood still", which, if God caused the earth to cease rotating, would give the implication that the sun stopped.


It is only 'by implication' to mean 'stop' or "stood still". Hence, if God stopped the earth from rotating, it would give mankind the 'implication' that the sun "stood still". Either the earth stopped rotating or the sun stopped revolving around the earth [for those who believe such nonsense]. The meaning, 'by implication', suggests that the former case, and not the latter, best fits the scripture.

Yeah it doesnt matter how many times I read it.....it still says the same thing. That God stopped the sun and moon in the sky. You can deconstruct it as much as you want it it doesnt change anything. If the Earth spun on its axis, the verse could EASILY have said...:::::::::

V.12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, EARTH stand thou still that the SUN be upon Gibeon; and the Moon, stand thou still in the valley of Ajalon.

But it doesnt say that. All your talk of "by implication" only implicates confusion. God is not the author of confusion.

I fully understand it -- and, I explained it to you previously. It is obvious that you do not understand the significance of Galileo's discovery.

For the moons of Jupiter, Earth is not the center of their universe -- Jupiter is. For the religious hacks of Galileo's time, all heavenly bodies had to revolve around the earth -- as it was their hack belief that the Earth was the center of the universe. Hence, it was heresy for Galileo to claim otherwise.

You explained it? Where? just a sec>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Nope....just read over your posts again. You just say because the moons of Jupiter revolve around Jupiter it means the Earth isn't the cetre of the universe::::::

Still waiting for an explanaiton>>>>

Or you can bring some more evidence forward. C'mon.....there must be some obvious proof that the Earth is moving no?