The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[St. SteVen]

If you have three ideas that are in conflict then calling them biblical is absurd really.

All three have biblical defense.
What would you call them?

Is Annihilationism biblical, or do you just disagree with it?
Is Damnationism biblical, or do you just disagree with it?
Is Universalism biblical, or do you just disagree with it?

Disagreeing with a biblically defensible doctrine doesn't make it unbiblical.

Who's being absurd here?

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus called it EVERLASTING punishment and EVERLASTING life. Should we believe you or Jesus?

Mmm. I totally believe Jesus. He is setting everlasting life in juxtaposition with everlasting punishment right? As it has been presented throughout scripture, choose life, for why would you die oh house of Israel? Life or death Jack. Life or death. The wages of sin is death. Punishment... Death. After an appropriate time of torment in keeping with the sin committed, followed by death. Why would you have it that a 12 year old unbelieving girl from 2000BC would be tormented for 4000 years longer than Hitler? I don't think you will answer that. Make you think too hard.

 

[Jack]

Mmm. I totally believe Jesus. He is setting everlasting life in juxtaposition with everlasting punishment right? As it has been presented throughout scripture, choose life, for why would you die oh house of Israel? Life or death Jack. Life or death. The wages of sin is death. Punishment... Death.

'Death' never means people 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

After an appropriate time of torment in keeping with the sin committed, followed by death.

So God is going to cook them before He destroys them?

Why would you have it that a 12 year old unbelieving girl from 2000BC would be tormented for 4000 years longer than Hitler? I don't think you will answer that. Make you think too hard.

Let's deal with perfectly clear Scripture. Humans will receive the exact same punishment as the Devil.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

They certainly will wish they 'ceased to exist'!

 

[Lambano]

'Death' never means people 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

"Death" means "no longer living". If "death" has no meaning, then "resurrection" doesn't have any meaning either. Don't redefine words.

 

[Jack]

"Death" means "no longer living". Don't redefine words.

1 Timothy 5
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

 

[Lambano]

1 Timothy 5
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

Know the difference between literal and figurative language and when to apply them.

 

[Jack]

Know the difference between literal and figurative language and when to apply them.

That sounds like JW doctrine.

Revelation 3
1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

 

[Lambano]

That sounds like JW doctrine.

Revelation 3
1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

And that metaphor would have no meaning if "dead" didn't mean "not alive".

 

[Jack]

And that metaphor would have no meaning if "dead" didn't mean "not alive".

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

 

[Lambano]

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

And the only thing that gives that metaphor meaning is that "dead" means "not alive".

 

[Jack]

And the only thing that gives that metaphor meaning is that "dead" means "not alive".

Adam died the day he sinned. He was very much alive!

 

[Brakelite]

'Death' never means people 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

Depends which death you are talking about. If it's the first death, you are right. Of that death one is said to be asleep, said by Jesus Himself and others, because the time will come when they are awakened... At the resurrection.
Matt. 9:24; John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36.

If it's the second death, there is no resurrection. That death is eternal. That's why it's called an everlasting punishment. It is the final execution of God's judgement upon unrepentant sinners.

So God is going to cook them before He destroys them?

You think that is worse than simmering them in fire just so much that they stay half cooked to enjoy their immortality?

 

[Jack]

Depends which death you are talking about. If it's the first death, you are right. Of that death one is said to be asleep, said by Jesus Himself and others, because the time will come when they are awakened... At the resurrection.
Matt. 9:24; John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36.

If it's the second death, there is no resurrection. That death is eternal. That's why it's called an everlasting punishment. It is the final execution of God's judgement upon unrepentant sinners.

You think that is worse than simmering them in fire just so much that they stay half cooked to enjoy their immortality?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

And that metaphor would have no meaning if "dead" didn't mean "not alive".

Why are you changing my name? You think this is just a game don't you. Well it's not!

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

 

[Meditation]

'Death' never means people 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

So God is going to cook them before He destroys them?

Let's deal with perfectly clear Scripture. Humans will receive the exact same punishment as the Devil.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

They certainly will wish they 'ceased to exist'!

I believe church people (if allowed by law)- would take their enemies and keep them living as long as possible to torture....

 

[Jack]

I believe church people (if allowed by law)- would take their enemies and keep them living as long as possible to torture....

Is that supposed to make sense?

 

[Meditation]

Is that supposed to make sense?

You are One with the Trinity, who tortures men, woman, and children forever.
You tell ME!

 

[Jack]

You are One with the Trinity, who tortures men, woman, and children forever.
You tell ME!

Ok, I'll tell you. You won't get by with chopping Hell fire / everlasting fire / furnace of fire / everlasting punishment from our Bible on Judgment Day.

Revelation 22
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[marks]

"Death" means "no longer living". If "death" has no meaning, then "resurrection" doesn't have any meaning either. Don't redefine words.

Dead in sin - spiriturally disconnected from God
Dead physically - soul disconnected from body
Resurrected - soul reconnected to restored body

This is the Biblical usage.

Much love!

 

[Jack]

Ok, I'll tell you. You won't get by with chopping Hell fire / everlasting fire / furnace of fire / everlasting punishment from our Bible on Judgment Day.

Revelation 22
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Laugh while you can. You won't be laughing on Judgment Day! I guarantee it.