The Holy Spirit in The Book of Hebrews

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The Holy Spirit in The Book of Hebrews

Is the Holy Spirit a “Person”, as the Father and Jesus Christ are, or simply “an active force of God”, His “impersonal power”, as some teach?

In Zechariah 4:6, we read, “'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says Yahweh of hosts”. Where it is clear, that the Holy Spirit is distinguished from God’s “Might” and “Power”.

It is clear that the Holy Spirit is a “Person”. By this term, it is meant:

“PERSONALITY. In the first place, we endeavor to establish the personality of the Holy Spirit. By this we here mean that the Holy Spirit is a real being, possessing intelligence, and performing personal actions; not, however, a being distinct and separate in essence from the Father. We understand the one undivided essence or being in the Godhead to exist in three distinct persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We would prove the personality of the Holy Ghost, 1. By the appellations; 2. By the actions; 3. By the honors, ascribed to him. If these be such as can only be applicable to a real and personal existence, then the inference will be clear that the Holy Spirit is a real and personal being, and not a mere abstract attribute, energy, or influence.”

(Thomas Ralston - Elements of Divinity, p.40)

In chapter 2, verse 4, we read, “the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will”; 3:7, “the Holy Spirit says”; 6:4, “partners of the Holy Spirit”; 9:8, “the Holy Spirit indicating this”; 10:15, “the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying”; 10:29, “and insulted the Spirit of grace”.

It is very clear from these passages, and others in both the Old and New Testaments, that the Holy Spirit is “Personal”, as the language used for Him, cannot be attributed to mere “things”.

Jesus says of God in John’s Gospel, “pneuma ho theos”, which is “God is spirit”, this does not mean that God is a “power”, or “force” and impersonal, but that He cannot be seen by the human eye. God is referred to as “invisible” (Colossians 1:15, etc)

Those, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who teach that the Holy Spirit is a mere “active force” of God, and “impersonal”; say that when the Holy Spirit is referred to as “He”, and in other “Personal” terms, it is like calling a city “she”, and a car, “he”, etc. While it might be true, that we do use personal language for inanimate objects; yet, it is equally true, that we will never say that a car has “a will”, or that a city is “a witness”, or that either can be “insulted”! These are PERSONAL terms, which are impossible to be used for impersonal objects or things!

There are three passages in Hebrews, that clearly teach that absolute Deity of the Holy Spirit. In two of these passages, they are quotations from the Old Testament, referring to Yahweh, which are used by the Holy Spirit for Himself. It is evident that the Holy Spirit Himself says that He is YHWH, the uncreated, Eternal God.

In New Testament quotations from the Old, only the actual words that are quoted, are relevant to the passage in the New. Not the words before, or after. For example, in Hebrews 1:5, God the Father, in speaking about Jesus Christ, quotes 2 Samuel 7:14, “I will be His Father, and He shall be My Son”, which is the complete quote for the purpose. The other words of this verse cannot refer to Jesus Christ, as they say, “If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men”. Impossible to refer to Jesus Christ, Who is sinless (1 Peter 2:22; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 1 John 3:5, etc). Also, in Matthew 2:15, “Out of Egypt I called My Son”, quoted from Hosea 11:1. Again, the whole verse cannot refer to Jesus Christ, which also says, “When Israel was a child, I loved him”. It is very important to understand this in Prophecy.

In Hebrews Chapter 3, verses 7-11:

“Therefore, even as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you will hear His voice, don’t harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me and tried Me, and saw My deeds for forty years. Therefore I was displeased with that generation, and said, ‘They always err in their heart, but they didn’t know My ways.’ As I swore in My wrath, ‘They will not enter into My rest.’”

There are many quotations from the Old Testament in the Book of Hebrews, that are introduced in different ways. For example, in chapter one we have a few quotes, which are introduced by, “For to which of the angels did He ever say” (ver. 5). The “He” refers to God the Father. Then, in 2:6, it says, “But one testified in a certain place, saying”; 4:3, “He has said”, 7, “as it has been said”; 5:5, “but it was He who said to Him”, 6, “As He also says in another place”; 7:17, “For He testifies”, 21, “by Him who said to Him”, etc, etc. In both the passages, 3:7-11, and 10:15-17, they do not say, “He also says”, or “it is testified in a certain place”, or “He testifies”, etc; but clearly, “kathōs legei to pneuma to hagion”, literally, “according as says the Spirit the Holy”, in 3:7, and “marturei de hēmin kai to pneuma to hagion meta to eirēkenai”, which is, “The Holy Spirit bears witness to us after having said”. It is clear that the Speaker in both places, is The Spirit The Holy. The words in both passages, are what the Holy Spirit speaks of Himself, and the Lord, another Person, distinct from Himself.

The passage in Chapter 3:7-11, is a quotation from Psalm 95:6-11:

“Oh come, let’s worship and bow down. Let’s kneel before Yahweh, our Maker, for He is our God. We are the people of His pasture, and the sheep in His care. Today, if you hear His voice! Don’t harden your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness, when your fathers tempted Me, tested Me, and saw My work. Forty long years I was grieved with that generation, and said, “It is a people that errs in their heart. They have not known My ways.” Therefore I swore in My wrath, “They won’t enter into My rest.””

The reference to “Meribah” is to the passage in the Book of Exodus, chapter 17, where the Isra, lites were extremely thirsty, and quarreled with Moses about the lack of water. It was here that they “tested” the Lord, and thereby enraged Him. In this passage it is Yahweh Who is tested. The Holy Spirit, in Hebrews says, that they, “tested Me and tried Me, and saw My deeds for forty years”, making Himself the Yahweh of this passage in Exodus!

The same is seen in Hebrews Chapter 10, in verses 15-17:

“And bears Witness to us the Spirit the Holy; for after saying, this is the Covenant which I will Covenant towards them after those days, says the Lord, giving My Laws into their hearts, also into their minds I will inscribe them, and their sins and their lawlessness, in no wise will I remember any more”

Here also, as in chapter 3, the Holy Spirit is the Speaker. In the Greek, the words, “after saying”, is written, “meta to eirēkenai”, where we have the definite article, “to”, here in the neuter. This is usually left untranslated into English, but is there for a purpose, which refers to “the Holy Spirit (to pneuma to hagion)”, and to the words that follow, which also belong to the Holy Spirit.

The fact that the Holy Spirit “bears Witnesses to us”, is clear testimony that the Spirit cannot be an “it”, but must be “Personal”. No “impersonal thing”, is capable of “bearing witness” to people!

The words are from the Book of the Prophet Jeremiah, 31:31-34:

“Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Yahweh. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh; for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more”

It is also clear from this passage in Hebrews 10, that the Holy Spirit says that He is Yahweh, Who is seen in the Book of the Prophet Jeremiah. Clear self Witness to His own Deity.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

cont

In Chapter 9:14, we have testimony to the Holy Spirit as being “Eternal”, which means that He cannot be “created”, and is Almighty God, Who is Eternal.

“how much more will the blood of Christ, Who by means of the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

The words, “dia pneumatos aiōniou” (through the eternal Spirit), do not refer to “Christ’s spirit”, as some claim. There is not a single verse that says anything about Jesus offering His blood “through His human spirit”, nor does this make any sense.

Interesting, that here we have a variant reading, where there is textual evidence, that does not have “aiōniou”, but “hagiou”, “Holy”. Found in the 5th century Greek manuscript, the Codex Bezae. Also in a number of Greek manuscripts in the Byzantine text-type. Before this time, is was found in the quotes of the Greek Church Fathers, Athanasius (293-373); Didymus the Blind (313-398); John Chrysostom (died 407); Cyril of Alexandria (375-444); John of Damascus (675-749). In the Old Latin (2nd cent); Latin Vulgate (4th cent), Coptic (3rd-4th); Georgian (5th); Syriac (6th) [Dr Scholz, Novum Testamentum graece]. We could read here, “dia hagiou pneumatos aiōniou”, “through the eternal Holy Spirit”, as there is strong evidence for this.

The Conception of the Lord Jesus Christ, was by the Power of the Holy Spirit, Who caused the Virgin Mary to conceive the human nature of Jesus Christ in her womb, without any participation of a human father. This Operation by the Holy Spirit, also caused the derived human nature from Mary, to be without any sin.

“The birth of Jesus Christ came about this way: After His mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child out of the Holy Spirit (ek pneumatos hagiou)” (Matthew 1:18)

“And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born out of you, will be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35)

Again, at the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit was Active

1 Peter 3:18, “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit (zōopoiētheis de pneumati)”

It is clear that The Holy Spirit is meant here, and not Jesus’ “human spirit”, which He actually “gave up” when He died on the cross, as in Luke 23:46, etc. This is clear from Romans 8:11;

“if now the Spirit (to pneuma) of the One having raised up Jesus out of the dead”

It is very clear from what we read in the Book of Hebrews, that the Holy Spirit is a Person, and not just an impersonal power of God. It is also clear that the Holy Sprit is Himself Yahweh, the Eternal uncreated Almighty God of the Bible, Who is very much Active in the Old Testament.

 

[GISMYS_7]

The Holy Spirit IS GOD!!!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, it is difficult to explain the 3 Persons of the 1 God, but it is biblical. I would define a Person of God as a particular *environmental consciousness* of divine personality.

If the environment of divine consciousness is "everywhere," then the Father is conscious of Himself as a transcendent Being. If the environment of divine consciousness is local, in a human being, then the Son is conscious of himself in the form of an immanent, created being. If the environment of divine consciousness is local and spiritual, not limited to the form of any created entity, then the Spirit is conscious of Himself in limited particular places.

You see, being infinite enables Deity to be conscious of Himself in both omnipresent and local places. Such is how an infinite Being works, not being limited to consciousness in exclusively transcendent or imminent states of being. Both are possible simultaneously for an infinite Being.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes, it is difficult to explain the 3 Persons of the 1 God, but it is biblical. I would define a Person of God as a particular *environmental consciousness* of divine personality.

If the environment of divine consciousness is "everywhere," then the Father is conscious of Himself as a transcendent Being. If the environment of divine consciousness is local, in a human being, then the Son is conscious of himself in the form of an immanent, created being. If the environment of divine consciousness is local and spiritual, not limited to the form of any created entity, then the Spirit is conscious of Himself in limited particular places.

You see, being infinite enables Deity to be conscious of Himself in both omnipresent and local places. Such is how an infinite Being works, not being limited to consciousness in exclusively transcendent or imminent states of being. Both are possible simultaneously for an infinite Being.

Is the One Godhead Three distinct Persons?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Is the One Godhead Three distinct Persons?

Yes, that was the whole point I was trying to make. In having 3 distinct kinds of consciousness, we have 3 distinct Persons of the one Deity.

 

[Episkopos]

Do people believe in the greatness of the Father or not? Is God the Father not omnipresent and all-powerful by Himself...and not in need of a separate Holy Spirit to help Him in His deficiencies? God IS Spirit. He places His Spirit within those who are His.

And the "not by might nor by power" Is about human might and power..unless one thinks that God's Spirit is without power?

Paul preached the gospel in the power of the Spirit in God's active presence and not just in word.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do people believe in the greatness of the Father or not? Is God the Father not omnipresent and all-powerful by Himself...and not in need of a separate Holy Spirit to help Him in His deficiencies? God IS Spirit. He places His Spirit within those who are His.

If you belong to a tradition that does not recognize the separate Person of the Spirit, then I doubt any arguing about it will change your mind. But you do deserve a response.

My own belief is that God's divine attributes are in each of the 3 Persons of the Trinity. So it cannot be said that the Father "needs" the Spirit to be able to do something as God.

He may, however, wish to create a universe so that He exists both before the existence of the universe and within its space and time frame. This is what causes the Spirit to be identified as a distinct and separate Person of the Trinity. God becomes conscious of Himself within the confines of space and time such that it can be said "the Spirit did this," or "the Spirit does that." It is not the Father doing it before the existence of the universe, but now it is the Father doing this via the Spirit who is acting within the created universe.

This may not seem significant to you, but I believe it is. If you apply this same rationale to the Son, you will recognize that the Son derives his own distinct consciousness in the same way, but acting within the created universe as opposed to strictly before the created universe.

And so, both Spirit and Son interrelate with the Father who has existed before the universe and remains outside of the created universe. But being omnipresent, the Father appears within the created universe in the forms of the Spirit and the Son, who then are able to relate back to the Father outside of the universe.

If either the Son or the Spirit cannot relate back to the Father, and view themselves as the Father, then they fail to recognize God's existence outside of the universe, and make God synonymous with creation, which is pantheism.

 

[Episkopos]

If you belong to a tradition that does not recognize the separate Person of the Spirit, then I doubt any arguing about it will change your mind. But you do deserve a response.

My own belief is that God's divine attributes are in each of the 3 Persons of the Trinity. So it cannot be said that the Father "needs" the Spirit to be able to do something as God.

He may, however, wish to create a universe so that He exists both before the existence of the universe and within its space and time frame. This is what causes the Spirit to be identified as a distinct and separate Person of the Trinity. God becomes conscious of Himself within the confines of space and time such that it can be said "the Spirit did this," or "the Spirit does that." It is not the Father doing it before the existence of the universe, but now it is the Father doing this via the Spirit who is acting within the created universe.

This may not seem significant to you, but I believe it is. If you apply this same rationale to the Son, you will recognize that the Son derives his own distinct consciousness in the same way, but acting within the created universe as opposed to strictly before the created universe.

And so, both Spirit and Son interrelate with the Father who has existed before the universe and remains outside of the created universe. But being omnipresent, the Father appears within the created universe in the forms of the Spirit and the Son, who then are able to relate back to the Father outside of the universe.

If either the Son of the Father cannot relate back to the Father, and view themselves as the Father, then they fail to recognize God's existence outside of the universe, and make God synonymous with creation, which is pantheism.

This could work if God wasn't Himself a Spirit. Go IS Spirit. God is not just outside of this world...He is present in His Spirit. We each have our own spirit...which is part of us...not a separate person. God also has a Spirit...called the Spirit of God. For your scheme to work there would have to be 2 Spirits of God. One as a part of the Father and then a separate Person called Holy Spirit. And then there is the Spirit of Christ. Is that a separate person or is it just the Spirit that is within Christ being an extension of the ONE Holy Spirit shared by the GodHead...both Father and Son?

Christianity is based on the divinity of Christ and the plurality of the GodHead.

The Jews believed in One God...the Father...who worked in the world by His Spirit. Does Christianity bring in 2 other Persons...or just Christ? Should we introduce another Spirit to the Jews...or just the Son of God?

I see the God of Israel as the Son...not the Father. God the Father is the God of ALL flesh...and the universe....not just one nation.

Of course the Jews will say that their God is the Most High....which of course is also true. But we only have access to the Father THROUGH the Son. That shows that Jesus is a Mediator....or the go-between between us and the Father.

So there is the Most High God...the Father...then there is the mighty God of Israel...the Son Jesus Christ...who reconciles us to an infinitely great God and Father who is the Most High.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Do people believe in the greatness of the Father or not? Is God the Father not omnipresent and all-powerful by Himself...and not in need of a separate Holy Spirit to help Him in His deficiencies? God IS Spirit. He places His Spirit within those who are His.

And the "not by might nor by power" Is about human might and power..unless one thinks that God's Spirit is without power?

Paul preached the gospel in the power of the Spirit in God's active presence and not just in word.

The Father is indeed Great as He is Almighty God. Jesus Christ is Great as He is Almighty God. The Holy Spirit is Great as He is Almighty God.

In the Eternal Godhead there are Three distinct but equal Persons.

 

[Episkopos]

The Father is indeed Great as He is Almighty God. Jesus Christ is Great as He is Almighty God. The Holy Spirit is Great as He is Almighty God.

In the Eternal Godhead there are Three distinct but equal Persons.

Which one is the Most High? Which is greater and which is lesser? What does the Bible say?

Many people also believe that there is no ranking among people in the kingdom. But it is very clear that there are those who are great in the kingdom and those who are least.

Everything in the universe is ranked.

Without ranking and prioritizing there can be no kingdom of God.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Which one is the Most High? Which is greater and which is lesser? What does the Bible say?

Many people also believe that there is no ranking among people in the kingdom. But it is very clear that there are those who are great in the kingdom and those who are least.

Everything in the universe is ranked.

Without ranking and prioritizing there can be no kingdom of God.

this is what the Bible says about the so called "ranking"

Matthew 28:19, "Go, therefore, and make disciples off all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

2 Corinthians 13:13, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with all of you"

Ephesians 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all"

in each case the "order" of the Persons is different, even though the Father is said to be, "above all", which does not include Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. If the Father is "greater" than Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and the Three are not COEQUAL, then it would be impossible for Paul to have placed the Father second, and third in his "order" of Persons. the way things stand, these passages show the complete EQUALITY of Father Son and Holy Spirit

 

[Randy Kluth]

This could work if God wasn't Himself a Spirit. Go IS Spirit. God is not just outside of this world...He is present in His Spirit. We each have our own spirit...which is part of us...not a separate person. God also has a Spirit...called the Spirit of God. For your scheme to work there would have to be 2 Spirits of God. One as a part of the Father and then a separate Person called Holy Spirit. And then there is the Spirit of Christ. Is that a separate person or is it just the Spirit that is within Christ being an extension of the ONE Holy Spirit shared by the GodHead...both Father and Son?

1st, I have to apologize--I did not proof-read what I wrote and made some obvious errors. I've corrected them now. It's been a busy, distracting morning!

So I'm talking about the Son and the Spirit relating back to the Father, who is outside of the universe, encompassing all of it. Those who are immanent within the Creation have their own self-consciousness. And the Father has His own self-consciousness. The 3 interreact as though separate beings, but they are actually one divine Being, relating with one another as distinct and separate Persons. That is how the Christian creeds read. 3 Persons in 1 Substance.

I wouldn't confuse God as a Spirit with us as created human spirits. Jesus has both a human spirit and is fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He is not only indwelt by God, but the Word of God identifies him *as* God. His personality is both human and divine.

There are not 2 Spirits of God, but the Person of the Spirit has self-awareness within the created universe, as well as outside of it. And so, He is both immanent within the universe and outside of the universe. But the Father must employ Him to be self-aware within the universe.

On the other hand, one might be able to describe the Holy Spirit as "many spirits" since He can appear in any number of places throughout the universe at any time. In the book of Revelation we read of the "7 spirits of God," so there's that?

I see the God of Israel as the Son...not the Father. God the Father is the God of ALL flesh...and the universe....not just one nation.

Seeing the one God as the Father, reducing the Son and the Spirit to forms of the same, is modalism, called either Sabellianism or Patripassianism. Today's version in Oneness Pentecostalism sees the Son as the preeminent form of God, with the other Persons reduced to aspects of Him. Either way, it was branded a heresy in the Early Church, and the creeds were in part written to prohibit it.

I wouldn't at all say that Christian modalists aren't Christians--I think they are. But Trinitarian Theology is difficult to explain, and how we explain it leads to things that are not always easily foreseen. Removing the distinction of the Persons, such as the Son to the Father, makes a mockery out of Jesus' prayers to his Father in heaven. And as a consequence, some in modalism believe that we should be enmeshed in God's Spirit, as opposed to having a personal relationship with Him.

I was for a short time in the Local Church cult--some say it is not a cult. They used to be modalists--don't know what they are now. But it got me very confused for awhile because I perhaps thought a lot like the Jews thought, that God is one.

Oddly enough, I now believe something that most orthodox Christians don't believe. I don't believe God is limited to a Trinity. I think God, being infinite, can express Himself in an infinite number of forms within the universe.

 

[Episkopos]

1st, I have to apologize--I did not proof-read what I wrote and made some obvious errors. I've corrected them now. It's been a busy, distracting morning!

So I'm talking about the Son and the Spirit relating back to the Father, who is outside of the universe, encompassing all of it. Those who are immanent within the Creation have their own self-consciousness. And the Father has His own self-consciousness. The 3 interreact as though separate beings, but they are actually one divine Being, relating with one another as distinct and separate Persons. That is how the Christian creeds read. 3 Persons in 1 Substance.

I wouldn't confuse God as a Spirit with us as created human spirits. Jesus has both a human spirit and is fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He is not only indwelt by God, but the Word of God identifies him *as* God. His personality is both human and divine.

There are not 2 Spirits of God, but the Person of the Spirit has self-awareness within the created universe, as well as outside of it. And so, He is both immanent within the universe and outside of the universe. But the Father must employ Him to be self-aware within the universe.

On the other hand, one might be able to describe the Holy Spirit as "many spirits" since He can appear in any number of places throughout the universe at any time. In the book of Revelation we read of the "7 spirits of God," so there's that?



Seeing the one God as the Father, reducing the Son and the Spirit to forms of the same, is modalism, called either Sabellianism or Patripassianism. Today's version in Oneness Pentecostalism sees the Son as the preeminent form of God, with the other Persons reduced to aspects of Him. Either way, it was branded a heresy in the Early Church, and the creeds were in part written to prohibit it.

I wouldn't at all say that Christian modalists aren't Christians--I think they are. But Trinitarian Theology is difficult to explain, and how we explain it leads to things that are not always easily foreseen. Removing the distinction of the Persons, such as the Son to the Father, makes a mockery out of Jesus' prayers to his Father in heaven. And as a consequence, some in modalism believe that we should be enmeshed in God's Spirit, as opposed to having a personal relationship with Him.

I was for a short time in the Local Church cult--some say it is not a cult. They used to be modalists--don't know what they are now. But it got me very confused for awhile because I perhaps thought a lot like the Jews thought, that God is one.

Oddly enough, I now believe something that most orthodox Christians don't believe. I don't believe God is limited to a Trinity. I think God, being infinite, can express Himself in an infinite number of forms within the universe.

You are not on the scent. My position is that there are TWO distinct persons in the GodHead...whereas your attempts to label what I'm saying only make God have one person. Be careful when falsely representing someone. I don't know at this point if you are being dishonest ...or is it just a tendency to react in a religious way????

God is both plural (Father and Son) and One ....IN One Holy Spirit. NO other explanation holds ALL the biblical descriptions together in my estimation.

God's Spirit is omnipresent and is able to fill all things...like having a hand that can lift all things. God's Spirit is BEFORE the throne...not sitting on it. There are but 2 thrones of Elohim...Father and Son. The 7 Spirits are before the throne. The number 7 means complete...lacking nothing. There is no need or really any reason to make an extension of God to be a separate person.God's Spirit brings His presence into His Creation. We can be filled with His Spirit as in...I will place MY Spirit within them.

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" Heb. 12:9

God's Spirit can be seen as plural...as in the above verse....because it is not a person or one person. It also means that all spirits of people are there to be filled by Him. We as individuals can be filled with His Spirit. There is no end to how much God can fill.

Rather than trying to exclude what I'm saying by calling it a heresy (instead of a mystery). Don't rely on pre-concocted theories that you have been led to believe cover the mysteries of God.

There is much more to this than what a simple formula can contain. Nothing is able to contain the greatness of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are not on the scent. My position is that there are TWO distinct persons in the GodHead...whereas your attempts to label what I'm saying only make God have one person. Be careful when falsely representing someone. I don't know at this point if you are being dishonest ...or is it just a tendency to react in a religious way????

No, I hear you. I can be corrected. I honestly thought you were veering in the direction of modalism. I'm glad you're not.

As I said earlier, there is a long history of disagreement, among the orthodox, whether the Spirit is to be viewed as personal or not. I can understand the argument either way.

God is both plural (Father and Son) and One ....IN One Holy Spirit. NO other explanation holds ALL the biblical descriptions together in my estimation.

God's Spirit is omnipresent and is able to fill all things...like having a hand that can lift all things. God's Spirit is BEFORE the throne...not sitting on it. There are but 2 thrones of Elohim...Father and Son. The 7 Spirits are before the throne. The number 7 means complete...lacking nothing. There is no need or really any reason to make an extension of God to be a separate person.God's Spirit brings His presence into His Creation. We can be filled with His Spirit as in...I will place MY Spirit within them.

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" Heb. 12:9

God's Spirit can be seen as plural...as in the above verse....because it is not a person or one person. It also means that all spirits of people are there to be filled by Him. We as individuals can be filled with His Spirit. There is no end to how much God can fill.

Rather than trying to exclude what I'm saying by calling it a heresy (instead of a mystery). Don't rely on pre-concocted theories that you have been led to believe cover the mysteries of God.

There is much more to this than what a simple formula can contain. Nothing is able to contain the greatness of God.

Yes, that is the direction many in Early Christianity went in some parts of the Church--if I remember it was more in the Eastern Church? It isn't critical to me either way, as long as God is viewed as a Spirit, who is omnipresent. And you've stated that. Okay.

 

[Nancy]

The Holy Spirit in The Book of Hebrews

Is the Holy Spirit a “Person”, as the Father and Jesus Christ are, or simply “an active force of God”, His “impersonal power”, as some teach?

In Zechariah 4:6, we read, “'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says Yahweh of hosts”. Where it is clear, that the Holy Spirit is distinguished from God’s “Might” and “Power”.

It is clear that the Holy Spirit is a “Person”. By this term, it is meant:

“PERSONALITY. In the first place, we endeavor to establish the personality of the Holy Spirit. By this we here mean that the Holy Spirit is a real being, possessing intelligence, and performing personal actions; not, however, a being distinct and separate in essence from the Father. We understand the one undivided essence or being in the Godhead to exist in three distinct persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We would prove the personality of the Holy Ghost, 1. By the appellations; 2. By the actions; 3. By the honors, ascribed to him. If these be such as can only be applicable to a real and personal existence, then the inference will be clear that the Holy Spirit is a real and personal being, and not a mere abstract attribute, energy, or influence.”

(Thomas Ralston - Elements of Divinity, p.40)

In chapter 2, verse 4, we read, “the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will”; 3:7, “the Holy Spirit says”; 6:4, “partners of the Holy Spirit”; 9:8, “the Holy Spirit indicating this”; 10:15, “the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying”; 10:29, “and insulted the Spirit of grace”.

It is very clear from these passages, and others in both the Old and New Testaments, that the Holy Spirit is “Personal”, as the language used for Him, cannot be attributed to mere “things”.

Jesus says of God in John’s Gospel, “pneuma ho theos”, which is “God is spirit”, this does not mean that God is a “power”, or “force” and impersonal, but that He cannot be seen by the human eye. God is referred to as “invisible” (Colossians 1:15, etc)

Those, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who teach that the Holy Spirit is a mere “active force” of God, and “impersonal”; say that when the Holy Spirit is referred to as “He”, and in other “Personal” terms, it is like calling a city “she”, and a car, “he”, etc. While it might be true, that we do use personal language for inanimate objects; yet, it is equally true, that we will never say that a car has “a will”, or that a city is “a witness”, or that either can be “insulted”! These are PERSONAL terms, which are impossible to be used for impersonal objects or things!

There are three passages in Hebrews, that clearly teach that absolute Deity of the Holy Spirit. In two of these passages, they are quotations from the Old Testament, referring to Yahweh, which are used by the Holy Spirit for Himself. It is evident that the Holy Spirit Himself says that He is YHWH, the uncreated, Eternal God.

In New Testament quotations from the Old, only the actual words that are quoted, are relevant to the passage in the New. Not the words before, or after. For example, in Hebrews 1:5, God the Father, in speaking about Jesus Christ, quotes 2 Samuel 7:14, “I will be His Father, and He shall be My Son”, which is the complete quote for the purpose. The other words of this verse cannot refer to Jesus Christ, as they say, “If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men”. Impossible to refer to Jesus Christ, Who is sinless (1 Peter 2:22; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 1 John 3:5, etc). Also, in Matthew 2:15, “Out of Egypt I called My Son”, quoted from Hosea 11:1. Again, the whole verse cannot refer to Jesus Christ, which also says, “When Israel was a child, I loved him”. It is very important to understand this in Prophecy.

In Hebrews Chapter 3, verses 7-11:

“Therefore, even as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you will hear His voice, don’t harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me and tried Me, and saw My deeds for forty years. Therefore I was displeased with that generation, and said, ‘They always err in their heart, but they didn’t know My ways.’ As I swore in My wrath, ‘They will not enter into My rest.’”

There are many quotations from the Old Testament in the Book of Hebrews, that are introduced in different ways. For example, in chapter one we have a few quotes, which are introduced by, “For to which of the angels did He ever say” (ver. 5). The “He” refers to God the Father. Then, in 2:6, it says, “But one testified in a certain place, saying”; 4:3, “He has said”, 7, “as it has been said”; 5:5, “but it was He who said to Him”, 6, “As He also says in another place”; 7:17, “For He testifies”, 21, “by Him who said to Him”, etc, etc. In both the passages, 3:7-11, and 10:15-17, they do not say, “He also says”, or “it is testified in a certain place”, or “He testifies”, etc; but clearly, “kathōs legei to pneuma to hagion”, literally, “according as says the Spirit the Holy”, in 3:7, and “marturei de hēmin kai to pneuma to hagion meta to eirēkenai”, which is, “The Holy Spirit bears witness to us after having said”. It is clear that the Speaker in both places, is The Spirit The Holy. The words in both passages, are what the Holy Spirit speaks of Himself, and the Lord, another Person, distinct from Himself.

The passage in Chapter 3:7-11, is a quotation from Psalm 95:6-11:

“Oh come, let’s worship and bow down. Let’s kneel before Yahweh, our Maker, for He is our God. We are the people of His pasture, and the sheep in His care. Today, if you hear His voice! Don’t harden your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness, when your fathers tempted Me, tested Me, and saw My work. Forty long years I was grieved with that generation, and said, “It is a people that errs in their heart. They have not known My ways.” Therefore I swore in My wrath, “They won’t enter into My rest.””

The reference to “Meribah” is to the passage in the Book of Exodus, chapter 17, where the Isra, lites were extremely thirsty, and quarreled with Moses about the lack of water. It was here that they “tested” the Lord, and thereby enraged Him. In this passage it is Yahweh Who is tested. The Holy Spirit, in Hebrews says, that they, “tested Me and tried Me, and saw My deeds for forty years”, making Himself the Yahweh of this passage in Exodus!

The same is seen in Hebrews Chapter 10, in verses 15-17:

“And bears Witness to us the Spirit the Holy; for after saying, this is the Covenant which I will Covenant towards them after those days, says the Lord, giving My Laws into their hearts, also into their minds I will inscribe them, and their sins and their lawlessness, in no wise will I remember any more”

Here also, as in chapter 3, the Holy Spirit is the Speaker. In the Greek, the words, “after saying”, is written, “meta to eirēkenai”, where we have the definite article, “to”, here in the neuter. This is usually left untranslated into English, but is there for a purpose, which refers to “the Holy Spirit (to pneuma to hagion)”, and to the words that follow, which also belong to the Holy Spirit.

The fact that the Holy Spirit “bears Witnesses to us”, is clear testimony that the Spirit cannot be an “it”, but must be “Personal”. No “impersonal thing”, is capable of “bearing witness” to people!

The words are from the Book of the Prophet Jeremiah, 31:31-34:

“Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Yahweh. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh; for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more”

It is also clear from this passage in Hebrews 10, that the Holy Spirit says that He is Yahweh, Who is seen in the Book of the Prophet Jeremiah. Clear self Witness to His own Deity.

Good word!
Also, how can one grieve a "force": "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30

 

[Episkopos]

The Holy Spirit in The Book of Hebrews

Is the Holy Spirit a “Person”, as the Father and Jesus Christ are, or simply “an active force of God”, His “impersonal power”, as some teach?

In Zechariah 4:6, we read, “'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says Yahweh of hosts”. Where it is clear, that the Holy Spirit is distinguished from God’s “Might” and “Power”.

.

Very few understand the purpose of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is a gateway to the Father.

For those who like Star Trek, there is a teleporter on the show that allows people to be scrambled from one place to the next. That teleporter works both ways... you can go FROM the mothership and TO the mothership. I think most people would understand this much.

But when it comes to God that kind of logic goes out the window. Why? Religious conditioning.

The Spirit transports Christ INTO us...and us INTO Christ.

Is the transporter in the Star Trek series a person? No. Are the people real that go through the transporter (in the show). Yes.

So then the Spirit of God is a means for both the Father and the Son to dwell in a person.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:23

Who is the WE in the above verse??? The Father and the Son. How do they come to abide in a person? By the Spirit.

Does God come to live in us bodily? No...God is Spirit.

Because there is a lack of understand of God being a Spirit...His workings are not understood.

The Holy Spirit BRINGS the presence of God into our midst....AND...transports (translates) us to be where He is in Zion.

“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” Col. 1:13

VERY FEW will experience being teleported into the heavenly walk. So then there is a lack of understanding about the Holy Spirit as something that brings us to the Father and the Father to us. Jesus came to reconcile us with the Father...not just with the Holy Spirit. Through errors in doctrine people are NOT being reconciled to the Father....but to a doctrine concerning Him...as a distant Person.

"But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” John 5:17

Where is the Spirit working? Actually the Father is working THROUGH His Spirit...And Jesus now is also. At the time Jesus was working physically (and spiritually) and the Father was working by His Spirit.

So then the Holy Spirit working IS the Father working in our midst. God speaks through His Spirit. God's presence is by His Spirit.

So we are missing the Father from the equation unless we understand that the Father is speaking and acting in and through us by His Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit speaks...it is the Father speaking ...not a separate person. Can we not be reconciled to the Father?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Good word!
Also, how can one grieve a "force": "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30

Excellent point! thanks

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Very few understand the purpose of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is a gateway to the Father.

For those who like Star Trek, there is a teleporter on the show that allows people to be scrambled from one place to the next. That teleporter works both ways... you can go FROM the mothership and TO the mothership. I think most people would understand this much.

But when it comes to God that kind of logic goes out the window. Why? Religious conditioning.

The Spirit transports Christ INTO us...and us INTO Christ.

Is the transporter in the Star Trek series a person? No. Are the people real that go through the transporter (in the show). Yes.

So then the Spirit of God is a means for both the Father and the Son to dwell in a person.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:23

Who is the WE in the above verse??? The Father and the Son. How do they come to abide in a person? By the Spirit.

Does God come to live in us bodily? No...God is Spirit.

Because there is a lack of understand of God being a Spirit...His workings are not understood.

The Holy Spirit BRINGS the presence of God into our midst....AND...transports (translates) us to be where He is in Zion.

“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” Col. 1:13

VERY FEW will experience being teleported into the heavenly walk. So then there is a lack of understanding about the Holy Spirit as something that beings us to the Father and the Father to us. Jesus came to reconcile us with the Father...not just with the Holy Spirit. Through errors in doctrine people are NOT being reconciled to the Father....but to a doctrine concerning Him...as a distant Person.

"But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” John 5:17

Where is the Spirit working? Actually the Father is working THROUGH His Spirit...And Jesus now is also. At the time Jesus was working physically (and spiritually) and the Father was working by His Spirit.

So then the Holy Spirit working IS the Father working in our midst. God speaks through His Spirit. God's presence is by His Spirit.

So we are missing the Father from the equation unless we understand that the Father is speaking and acting in and through us by His Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit speaks...it is the Father speaking ...not a separate person. Can we not be reconciled to the Father?

do you believe that the Holy Spirit is Almighty God, and a distinct Person from God the Father and God the Son?

 

[Episkopos]

do you believe that the Holy Spirit is Almighty God, and a distinct Person from God the Father and God the Son?

The Holy Spirit BRINGS the Most High to us AND takes us to be with Him...WHERE He dwells....in Zion.

The Father and Son are distinct Persons...sitting on thrones. 2 thrones not three. The 7 Spirits of God are BEFORE the throne...serving God.

Trying to force a "trinitarian" view on the scriptures is a real stretch. In fact it doesn't really work. There are only 2 thrones in heaven that make up the Godhead...look for yourself to see if you can find another spirit besides the Spirit of the living God in the Bible who is a personal god.

The Holy Spirit is an extension of God...a function of God by His Spirit. You can equate that to the finger of God or the hand of God as described in the Bible at various times.

I don't equate a function of God with a person...although that function BRINGS the Person of God to us. By His presence. The Holy Spirit brings the presence of God to us...and brings us to God.