The Influence of Islam on Christendom

[marks]

So people WANT God is be totalitarian right now.

Another very odd thing to say!

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

 

[marks]

Do you wear a vest with explosives strapped to yourself Mohamedan?

Why would you ask a question like this?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

.


Compare to . . .

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So actually He did not say, "act", He said, "enter". "In this life" does not appear, so to add that in is not correct. And in fact we know it's appointed to man to die and then be judged, not then be given extra chances.



And while of course this is true, that's something different then whether or not people "make" Christianity to be "totalitarianism", and whether or not there is a dualistic and totalitarianistic message in the Bible.

Jesus truly is the only Way to the Father, we have life in Christ and in no other. The simple reality is, it's God's Way, or the highway to hell, as it were.

Much love!

What do you have that was not given to you? If you were given sight, is it your place to go and condemn men who are still blind?

 

[Episkopos]

Another very odd thing to say!

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

We all as humanity want to see the end of suffering and oppression...especially towards the innocent. But that day of reckoning will do more than we think. If we have our cake we will have to eat it too! We also will have to be subject to the truth in judgment. Many people who clamour for truth to reveal Himself...will also suffer loss as a result of that.

If you re-read what I wrote you will see that I believe that God's mercy...that mercy that we claim for ourselves as Christians...also extends to all others...and that is why God is prolonging His time as a NON judge of evil in the world...IOW the delaying of His judgment to the end of ceasing the injustices of the world. The music hasn't stopped yet...and we all need to make our calling and election sure...and be faithful witnesses of the way that leads to life towards others.

 

[marks]

What do you have that was not given to you?

Well, of course, all any of us have, we have received.

If you were given sight, is it your place to go and condemn men who are still blind?

Naturally all judgment is given to Jesus.

This is why we need to pay careful attention to what He says. And to share the gift He gives without distorting His message.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We all as humanity want to see the end of suffering and oppression...especially towards the innocent. But that day of reckoning will do more than we think. If we have our cake we will have to eat it too! We also will have to be subject to the truth in judgment. Many people who clamour for truth to reveal Himself...will also suffer loss as a result of that.

If you re-read what I wrote you will see that I believe that God's mercy...that mercy that we claim for ourselves as Christians...also extends to all others...and that is why God is prolonging His time as a NON judge of evil in the world...IOW the delaying of His judgment to the end of ceasing the injustices of the world. The music hasn't stopped yet...and we all need to make our calling and election sure...and be faithful witnesses of the way that leads to life towards others.

Just curious, since you didn't answer me, did you have an answer to my question?

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

 

[Episkopos]

Just curious, since you didn't answer me, did you have an answer to my question?

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

We can't communicate well because you are not seeing that I did in fact answer your question and in great detail. If you say "only Christianity"...and I say "All of humanity"...then my "all of humanity" means I'm not saying Christianity. I'm making a bigger statement. I'm not limiting the statement to a subset of humanity. Unless you think Christians are not part of humanity. Can you see that Christianity is a subset of humanity? (I suppose that that is a given...but in your case maybe you see it differently)

I leave it to you to figure out why you can't expand the argument or track my efforts to that end. I'm trying to take you to a larger perspective. ...but you say I'm avoiding you...so then I tend to avoid you. A self-fulfilling approach.

 

[JohnPaul]

Define what you mean when you say "these people."

Muslims

 

[JohnPaul]

imo epi is making a good point, only in an ignorant way sort of, so the cart/horse argument is prolly better for another thread anyway. In a forum far, far away i guess, too. Im personally not that comfortable around Muslims, but they blow us away for following Christ bro, what can i tell you. We are the bad guys, The Roman Imperialists now. Have a nice life, and best of luck to you ok. I have never seen such faith in anyone in Israel, too i guess

You a Star Wars fan B?

 

[marks]

We can't communicate well because you are not seeing that I did in fact answer your question and in great detail. If you say "only Christianity"...and I say "All of humanity"...then my "all of humanity" means I'm not saying Christianity.

You are correct there is little real communication between us.

I'm simply trying to ascertain what you mean when you say, "Christianity", because it sounds to me that you mean something different than what some or many mean.

Sir Robert Anderson wrote in terms of Christendom, being different that Christianity. That Christendom is all the Christianized culture, and includes those all who identify as Christians, whether they are or not. I'm wondering if you are using the word Christianity in that sense.

This requires having a clear sense of what is and what is not a Christian. And it requires clarity of speech to give a consise answer. And a clearly spoken, concise and true answer can be very revealing.

...but you say I'm avoiding you...so then I tend to avoid you. A self-fulfilling approach.

It's more that you avoid answering questions I ask. Even this one, you've said you answered in detail but where?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I just want to add the qualifier to how I see truth for the reason that some people react against my methods.

I see truth in layers. Like target shooting at a varying distance. If a truth understanding is accurate a bullseye is scored. But if I see a person as missing the target...or better yet, barely hitting the target at all...I will bring in an argument at another layer...or distance to show that the bullet strike is no longer there at that greater distance. Now instead of an honest appraisal of the truth and an admittance that more accuracy is required...the indoctrinated person will revert back to the static distance or depth that he/she believes the truth is limited to. Hence the dogmatism being displayed.

I'm NOT dogmatic at all. And many people I engage with ARE dogmatic. But they don't really understand the truth of it so often. The grasp is very tenuous...that is why the need for a dogmatic and static position on their part. (as if the truth only exists in a monolithic static and shallow level.) I prove that hypothesis by taking their understanding to a different level....taking it more to where it is going. When the response is still the same...it is empirical proof that the person isn't tracking well...and can't shoot straight.


I have learned to shoot better by learning and practice. I have made the effort and God has rewarded me. When another person I'm speaking with thinks their shooting is always perfect...then they are not in the same sport as me. I leave them to their delusion.

 

[Episkopos]

You are correct there is little real communication between us.

I'm simply trying to ascertain what you mean when you say, "Christianity", because it sounds to me that you mean something different than what some or many mean.

Sir Robert Anderson wrote in terms of Christendom, being different that Christianity. That Christendom is all the Christianized culture, and includes those all who identify as Christians, whether they are or not. I'm wondering if you are using the word Christianity in that sense.

This requires having a clear sense of what is and what is not a Christian. And it requires clarity of speech to give a consise answer. And a clearly spoken, concise and true answer can be very revealing.



It's more that you avoid answering questions I ask. Even this one, you've said you answered in detail but where?

Much love!

Can others here help marks to see what he is missing? I am asking in all sincerity.

I wish you could understand my answer....but I don't think you would be able to hear my explanation as to why you can't track what I'm saying. Your ego would get in the way...because you are looking for affirmation...not instruction.

 

[marks]

but I don't think you would be able to hear my explanation as to why you can't track what I'm saying. Your ego would get in the way...because you are looking for affirmation...not instruction.

This is the same road we've gone down before. I've asked you a rather basic sort of question, one which should not have any difficulties with answering.

You've not answered me, and instead, now, you are claiming that my ego would prevent me from understanding, because I'm looking for affirmation.

Your claim that I'm merely trying to assuage my ego is now the Ad Hominem which replaces an answer. Rather than speak towards the question, you prefer to malign me. Why?

Am I to respond with a defense of myself?

Am I to become frustrated and go away?

Am I to just accept that I'm not going to be answered? That's most likely going to be the case I suppose.

But let's be honest about what is happening.

 

[marks]

I leave them to their delusion.

It's tempting, but I care more than that.

But until we can have a full and honest and real discussion . . .

 

[Episkopos]

This is the same road we've gone down before. I've asked you a rather basic sort of question, one which should not have any difficulties with answering.

You've not answered me, and instead, now, you are claiming that my ego would prevent me from understanding, because I'm looking for affirmation.

Your claim that I'm merely trying to assuage my ego is now the Ad Hominem which replaces an answer. Rather than speak towards the question, you prefer to malign me. Why?

Am I to respond with a defense of myself?

Am I to become frustrated and go away?

Am I to just accept that I'm not going to be answered? That's most likely going to be the case I suppose.

But let's be honest about what is happening.

My proposition to you is...do you want to shoot at the target with more accuracy or not? If you say to me...how dare you think you can shoot better or know more about shooting than me...then I will see that your ego is involved. But if you challenge me to a shoot out...I will gladly accept for the mutual benefit and also to the benefit of us together coming to a greater knowledge...together.

But in my experience with you...you will opt for a dogmatic stance that you want affirmation for. And that I will never do..because I see where you are shooting.

 

[Helen]

911 was an inside job, almost surely, and the evidence gets more compelling every day. The Amer Soc of Civil Engineers has recently stated that the official bs about bldg 7 cannot possibly be true. Sorry, but that amts to another erroneous belief that will not stand up to light

My hubby and I said that on the very day we all sat and watched it over and over...we never for one moment believed it was anything other than an inside job.
Then all the chatter started from experts who went in to examine it afterward.
I have mentioned here before, re my next door neighbours niece, who lived in a high-rise apartment and could see the Twin Towers clearly, and also watched all the activity that happened there the day BEFORE it happened!!!
Next day men in black came to her door...took her phone, computer, camera and every other device. Put a gun to her head and told her the they would find her and kill her if she mentioned anything that she saw to anyone. ( She was 25 at that time) She was so scared she didn't even mention it to her mother until 8 years later. Obviously she moved out of NY as soon as she could.

But no one believes that any more than they believe that it was a inside job.

NOT that I am a Muslim lover ... = love the person, hate what they stand for.
I read the booklet Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion when I was in my 30's, and you know how long ago that was!!

So I have always been informed about that agenda too!!

 

[marks]

My proposition to you is...do you want to shoot at the target with more accuracy or not? If you say to me...how dare you think you can shoot better or know more about shooting than me...then I will see that your ego is involved. But if you challenge me to a shoot out...I will gladly accept for the mutual benefit and also to the benefit of us together coming to a greater knowledge...together.

But in my experience with you...you will opt for a dogmatic stance that you want affirmation for. And that I will never do..because I see where you are shooting.

Challenge you to a shoot out? What does that even mean??

I have one interest, and that is truth.

Do you wish to seek for truth together? I can already imagine the answer, but surprise me!

 

[Episkopos]

Challenge you to a shoot out? What does that even mean??

I have one interest, and that is truth.

Do you wish to seek for truth together? I can already imagine the answer, but surprise me!

I'm always interested in a deeper seeking with a brother. I believe we should even be helping each other in our own argumental position. The idea is for the dialectic to bring us both to a better understanding. Like playing together in harmony to produce an edifying music.

But not all people can do that together.

In a band...it is possible for one player to set a groove that some others can't keep pace with. So then that one can slow down the pace for the sake of another...but not necessarily the groove. If a weaker player can't keep pace with the tempo OR the groove....then a person has to at least play in tune. Now if a player can't keep the tempo...OR the groove OR play in tune....what is one to do?

That person who lacks these things needs to come to the other players as a humble student ready to learn. Otherwise there is no sense wasting time with a player who can't play or tune his instrument and expects to be able to play as a player. Affirmation is a carnal concern.

People need to put in the time and honesty to get that sort of consideration.

 

[marks]

I'm always interested in a deeper seeking with a brother. I believe we should even be helping each other in our own argumental position. The idea is for the dialectic to bring us both to a better understanding. Like playing together in harmony to produce an edifying music.

I find that a real and open discussion, where no one becomes defensive or argumentative can have many benefits. If we can all stay on point, and play nice.

People need to put in the time and honesty to get that sort of consideration.

Time and honesty. Yes.

I would add simplicity and clarity. Also courtesy.

In a band...it is possible for one player to set a groove that some others can't keep pace with. So then that one can slow down the pace for the sake of another...but not necessarily the groove. If a weaker player can't keep pace with the tempo OR the groove....then a person has to at least play in tune. Now if a player can't keep the tempo...OR the groove OR play in tune....what is one to do?

That person who lacks these things needs to come to the other players as a humble student ready to learn. Otherwise there is no sense wasting time with a player who can't play or tune his instrument and expects to be able to play as a player.

Don't know what you mean by groove, This is where I prefer clarity in speech. Over flowery or metaphorical speech tends to make things a bit ambiguous. I find communication on a forum to be challenging enough, so I try to make everything as straightforward and up front as possible.

For instance in my previous question.

To me, Christian is someone who has been born again in Christ, and as a result is a new creation, the born spirit child of God. There are those who are born again, and those who are not. And though someone may say they are, if they are not, then they are not.

It seems to me that you have a more broad definition, so I like to clarify these things.

If you are interesting in seeing the Scriptures from which I gain my understanding, we can do that. I'm interested at this point in learning how you answer this very simple question,

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I find that a real and open discussion, where no one becomes defensive or argumentative can have many benefits. If we can all stay on point, and play nice.



Time and honesty. Yes.

I would add simplicity and clarity. Also courtesy.



Don't know what you mean by groove, This is where I prefer clarity in speech. Over flowery or metaphorical speech tends to make things a bit ambiguous. I find communication on a forum to be challenging enough, so I try to make everything as straightforward and up front as possible.

For instance in my previous question.

To me, Christian is someone who has been born again in Christ, and as a result is a new creation, the born spirit child of God. There are those who are born again, and those who are not. And though someone may say they are, if they are not, then they are not.

It seems to me that you have a more broad definition, so I like to clarify these things.

If you are interesting in seeing the Scriptures from which I gain my understanding, we can do that. I'm interested at this point in learning how you answer this very simple question,

I guess I just have to remember when you talk about "Christianity", I think you must mean "everyone who identifies as Christian whether or not they are", is that right?

Much love!

Being born again is an individual consideration The OP is the effect of Islam on all of Christendom....and that includes BAC's...because these are still human and are not evolved so often to the point of discerning the forces that affect the world...or even themselves in most cases. So you are trying to find a distinction or exemption based on being born again...to make that a bigger deal than it is, IMHO. I say that because either people are not really born again...or they are stuck and deceived like everyone else because of a lack of instruction. (My people perish for lack of knowledge)